Joining the Canadian Military - Need Advice!

[Gand]

Hello everybody,
I've got some questions, and try as I might, I can't seem to get them answered, or at least not by somebody who is trying to "sell" me something. Ok, here's my dilemma. I'm currently finishing my aviation diploma along with my Canadian Comm M/IFR, fully expecting to do as every other 200 hour wonder does, go looking for that illusive first job. It's something I’ve had worries about, as most do, but I’ve never second guessed it. I love flying, I enjoy the industry, and I enjoy working hard and being professional at what I do, so I have faith that I’ll do just fine in the long run.

Anyway, getting to the question. So along comes the Canadian military, with there pilot shortage. There opening up an entry plan called the Continuing Education Officer Training Plan (CEOTP), which would allow me with my aviation diploma to enter the forces as a pilot, which before I’d have to have achieved a degree to do. With the CEOTP I'd have to complete that degree on my own time during my seven years of service and/or during my approx. 2-3 years of training. On top of this, they've informed the students at my college that we'd also get to skip the primary flight training and we'd get an upgrade to Second Lieutenant after officer basic training. Anyway, without making this too long. I must admit I’m really tempted. I'm 21 in relatively good shape, with good vision and all that jazz, and I’ve got flying experience. The military is something I respect, and I like the idea of representing my country, but I’ve never considered it seriously up until now.

I'm tempted because this could be the path to the answers for a lot of my concerns. I'd get paid, which in it's self is a feat. On top of that, I’d get great training, pick up a second language, come out with my aviation diploma and another degree, possibly get a fair amount of turbine time in something worthwhile, and I’m sure I'd get a ton of experience.

So here's the actual question. What advice can anybody who's in the CF, or with some other knowledge of their system give me about life as a pilot? What problems can you think I should know about in advance? What makes it worthwhile? Did or do you get to fly a lot, or at least enough to come out one day on par with my civilian counterparts? Will I get stuck on a Griffon, or is fixed wing a realistic goal? Anything along those lines is much appreciated.

Thanks in advance to anybody who can give me some insight, and help me make this decision a little easier.

Gand

[brit bus driver]

Have you tried cfpilots.ca (http://www.cfpilots.ca) . I think this is a closed forum, but the moderator may allow you access? Word of warning: we aircrew are a negative bunch, so be prepared for some gloomy replies!

[Labpilot]

I was in your exact shoes 11 years ago and I chose the Military route, and I'm still in. (BTW what college?)

So the good, the bad and the ugly from my point of view:

1. The training mill. It's exactly that, you must play the game, do it the way they want it done, and you'll get along great in YMJ. Start stepping to your own drum with things like "when I was in flying college we did this..." and the instructors may find a way to axe you. I know it sounds grim but it's only a short while. Besides you get to skip Primary Flight Training in Portage.

2. The wait. I signed on the dotted line in Dec '92 and didn't see a cockpit till Jan of '96 and was operational on a SAR Helo in Aug '97. Patience is a must when you're a 32U (untrained pilot). From what I've heard the pre-Moose Jaw wait is not as long anymore, but the post-MJ and post – Portage (basic multi-engine and helo school) waits are still quite long. Fast Jet guys are probably waiting the longest at 2-3 years. What ever wait between courses you do have, you can apply to go to university (or do correspondence) if the timings work out, thereby getting your degree when it won’t interrupt flying.

3. The selection of aircraft. The CF is comprised of over 50% helo cockpits so the chance of getting a helo slot is high. Can I take from your tone ('getting stuck on a Griffon') that Fixed Wing is the only thing you want to fly? I, as a point of interest, wanted to fly Hercs, but now I'm extremely happy with the way things unfolded. "To hover is divine" :ok: The only guarantee occurs if you finish first overall in Basic Flying Training in MJ, that person gets his/her choice of aircraft, usually.

4. The flying:
a. Is undeniably some of the very best flying you will experience. Whether it's SAR, Anti-drug/pollution patrols, tours in places like Kosovo, Haiti, Somalia, and onboard ships as part of a task force or naval blockade. Flying IMC at 200 ft, in the middle of the ocean at night, with no lights, would be a challenge to any aviator. My current job has me on the Grand Banks 250nm off St. John’s in some of the crappiest weather you can imagine, trying to fly formation with a 45 foot fishing boat in 40 foot seas; fun, no; challenging, oh yeah!

b. We tend not to get too much of it. Compared to our civilian brothers, we get next to nothing. High time guys are probably those on deployment, and they are lucky to break 4 or 500 hours this year. Jet Jocks are in the 2-300 hour mark, if that; Maritime Patrol and Transport guys will do a little better. Personally, this will be the first year in three or four that I’ll break 300 hours, and I’m the high time guy in the Squadron. It may sound corny to say but I think for the most part our hours are quality hours, and not so much spending countless hours at FL340.

c. Where else can you sign out a 35 million dollar machine and go play for the day? Or go supersonic??

5. The pay. Well we’re not millionaires but none of us goes hungry either. You’re average line pilot, at the rank of Captain, will be in the neighbourhood of $70 –95 000 depending on his time in. There are no bonuses for Aircraft Commander, Flight Safety Officer, Standards, or Instrument Check Pilot. Just salary and flight pay based on years in the job (and they take away your flight pay if you go to a ground job). A ground job is highly probably at some point in your career. As a Second Lieutenant, you can expect somewhere between $30-40 000 to start off, which isn’t bad money for having no responsibility. Compare that to instructing or flying in the bush and there’s no comparison compared with the hours and type of work you do.

6. The lifestyle. Some like it some don’t. If you’re single, there’s plenty of opportunity to see all parts of the world and if you’re attached, it’s good to have an understanding spouse. Some of the posting locations suck, some don’t and I’ve found the posting is what you make of it. Haven’t had the opportunity to live on a ship or in a tent for very long so I may be a bit naïve to what the pointy end is going through (SAR doesn’t get deployed outside the country). Pilots on a Squadron get secondary duties, like the ones mentioned above and there’s always tours to give, exercises to plan, blah, blah; suffice it to say there’s plenty of things to take you away from your primary job of being a professional pilot.

7. Overall. It’s a good job, the pay is reasonable and the flying, though somewhat limited is exciting. The bad, well I think the biggest thing right now is the letdown. Let me explain; I found it amusing to read that you would like to serve your country because I had that same notion when I joined up, and now I do my job, maintain a professional attitude in and out of the cockpit, and go home at the end of the day. I feel like a civilian in a military uniform, and instead of a responsibility to my country, I have a responsibility to my crew, my peers, and the guy on the boat that needs my help. I feel letdown by a government that has no idea what to do with us and a Canadian public that couldn’t give a rats a$$ if it has a military or not until one of us dies or it snows in Toronto. I fly the newest aircraft in the fleet (the EH-101 Cormorant) and I feel like this, imagine how it feels to the guy in the 1960’s Sea King or E-model Herc.

That’s all I can think of now. I’d be happy to answer any more questions you may have. Remember it's only one point of view, and bbd is right there are a lot of cynics out there, maybe I'm one of them? The website cfpilots.ca is supposed to be for current or retired CF pilots, but I can inquire if you're interested in having a look. That forum has its share of cynics but there's some good stuff there too.

Good Luck
LP
:D

[SBfour]

The time has never been better to join the CF. I have just started my 6th flying tour with no chance of doing a ground job anytime soon.

I have been flying for 15 yrs under the old CEOTP (OCTP), still working on a degree and rapidly approaching 5000 hrs. At the risk of everyone knowing my identity(doesn't really matter) I have the best job anywhere. I have just finished a tour with the Snowbirds, have done an exchange tour with the RAF and used to be good at landing on ships in the middle of the ocean.

The window as it exists now for CEOTP will not last long. With a flying college diploma you will be on squadron sooner than ever before in history. The pay has never been better. I have several airline friends that are returning to the CF because the pay is better and the job is way more satisfying. NFTC is a fantastic program which, makes Moose Jaw a very interesting place.

However, being a helicopter pilot is a likelihood and being deployed 6 months of the year is a way of life. There is no free lunch.

Good luck

[Gand]

Thanks to everybody who contributed their opinions, it makes my decision that much easier. I know I’m not the only one in this position, so I’ll pass on your thoughts.

Labpilot: Special thanks to you for such a thorough reply, check your private messages please.


Gand

[molly molly]

Go with what sbfour says. It's a good life. Pup would know. I've seen him hang out butt naked from a sea king.

[SBfour]

I wasn't naked!!! I was wearing a Batman cape...it seemed like a good idea at the time.

[saudipc-9]

Gand,
I liked it so much I've decided to do it again:} I too had an exchange tour and will go back to flying in the CF. It can be a great life, but a lot of it is what you make of it.
PM me if you want some direct answers to any questions.

SBfour, I'm sure it was just a lot of shrinkage:E