Permit To Fly Rules....where are they?

[ToryBoy]

Please can someone post a link for a site that I can actually find out the full facts regarding Permit aircraft, maintenance, restrictions etc?

Thanks in advance

[Ludwig]

http://www.pfa.org.uk/aircraft_technical/permit_system/index.asp

Hope that helps:ok:

[Lowtimer]

... just on the unlikely offchance that it makes a difference, that's the place you will find details of PFA permit aircraft, which may not necessarily be the same as CAA permit aircraft (generally ex-military types rather than homebuilts). Don't have a web reference to hand for the CAA permit regime, sorry, but it's probably somewhere on the CAA site.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Everything should be, nay is, in a new CAA publication called "CAP 733". I know this because I helped write parts of it.

Snag is, they've not got around to issuing it. So, there isn't a single document on permit rules - although there is quite a lot in the current issue of the ANO, particularly paras 8, 9, 129, 130. Also, there are a wide variety of conditions applying to individual permit aircraft, these are usually printed on the permit but sometimes are in an approved operators manual that go with it.

But for a quick summary of the main rules:-

1. day VMC, sight of surface at-all times, and never over built up areas except for taking-off and landing at a licensed or government airfield (the latter exemption doesn't apply to some permit aircraft which can't overfly built-up areas under any circumstances, this is mostly only microlights).
2. Minimum essential crew plus one.
3. Permission required from overseas authorities before leaving UK airspace.
4. Maintenance as per the schedule for the aircraft, which usually is owner maintenance.
5. Annual inspection and check flight for permit revalidation.
6. Not permitted for aerial work, except for...
(a) flying displays and associated practice
(b) instruction (but apparently not examination) of the sole owner or members of their immediate family
(c) Commercial instruction on certain classes of microlight.
(d) Flight testing prior to approval.
7. Can't be hired, except for solo occupancy of certain microlights, and single-seaters with an MTOW under 910kg (2002 lbf).

G

[ToryBoy]

Thanks for that chaps:

Ludwig, couldn't get your link to work, but thanks anyway.

Genghis, thanks. You say they are usually owner maintained. Are M3 units normally quite happy to perform the maintenance?

I am dangerous with a spanner and the type I am looking to buy are all Permit and I am used to leaving a C of A a/c at the M3 unit and returning once it's finished!

[Genghis the Engineer]

The issue actually isn't usually who can carry out maintenance, but who can certify it. Usually there's no problem with an M3 organisation doing the maintenance, but you might need to counter-certify the maintenance yourself, or get a PFA/BMAA inspector to do so for you if they haven't one on the staff.

Seriously however, you can't afford to totally relinquish all responsibility for a permit aircraft - you need to take an active interest in what's being done, check the tech records, confirm that the right inspection / maintenance intervals are being adhered to, MPDs (Mandatory Permit Directives - like ADs) complied with, etc.. You can't rely upon it all magically being picked up by a LAME and CAA procedures in the way many CofA aeroplane owners do.

G

[Fly Stimulator]

Minimum essential crew plus one. Presumably this is about to change. I know of a Jabiru J400 builder who is otherwise going to be a bit disappointed!

[Evo]

Dunno, he could always have a minimum essential crew of 3. Pilot, Radio operator and Navigator... most of us could do with that :)

[Fly Stimulator]

As is traditionally done as a way of taking passengers in certain ex-military helicopters on permits I believe ;)

[Genghis the Engineer]

There are attempts to change it, but so far as I know the J400 is limited to 2 seats at present.

G

[md 600 driver]

it does not say anything on my permit for a ex mil gaz about training does his mean its allowed

[Genghis the Engineer]

See my item 6, it's in the ANO.

G

[ACX]

When you talk about Permits to Fly you need to be specific about the category of aircraft you are looking at, eg PFA, BMAA and ex-military under or over 2730kg. Each has its own slight differences.

For example some have to be maintained by CAA approved companies (ex-mil over 2730kg) whilst others by a person acceptable to the CAA.

Md600 driver - there is an AIC issued that allows some types of paid training in ex-military aircraft. The CAA recognised the need for proper training and issued an AIC to allow training in the jets but has recently extended this to include the ex-mil helicopters. Unfortunatly, it does not include the gazelle, as I understand training can be obtained on certified models, but it will help the Scout boys keep legal.

Max/Min occupants - You need to read the actual aircraft's Permit to Fly. Most state the max number of occupants and the min crew for display flying. For some ex-mil types with more than two seats the wording is slightly different and allows the carraige of crew, which I think is defined as flight crew plus engineers for the operation of the aircraft away from base! pax!

ACX