Britannia recruiting - new 737 operation

[unwiseowl]

This weeks Flight has an ad for direct entry training captains, captains and first officers - 737 rated. It mentions "...our exiting new venture on the 737 fleet which will operate from the heart of England...."

[Kalium Chloride]

"Exiting venture...?"

Does that mean they're leaving the country? I'd have thought Britannia might have proof-read their own advert. :D

[sharpshot]

There's a J.32 at Coventry with "Heart of England" emblazoned along the fuselage - is this a clue:hmm:

[2FLYEU]

It's simply curiosity.....
any Idea about Salary at Britannia? :confused:

[willoman]

Probably nothing approaching Britannia main fleet salaries and conditions. This venture looks like the new move into the 'lo-cost' world with considerably reduced inducements !

[espinet]

Britannia is now going to be called Thomsons-written in big red letters-A smaller one underneath operated by Britannia-What can one say

[Blended]

it will be a big red

Thomson

on each side,

and a small operated by Britannia on the nose.

[Man Flex]

Isn't all this constant repainting of aircraft and titles costing a lot of money? Is this further rebranding a pre-emptive strike before announcing their new low cost operation - Thomson Lite?

[The BFG]

There must be a plethora of RHS drivers at Britannia more than capable of filling these command slots, wonder what the script is!!!

[Fly_146]

"Britannia propose a new 737 venture from the heart of England".

Well, its not going to be BHX or EMA, so where else does this leave!!! :hmm:

[willoman]

Rumoured is Coventry and the the reason for RHS pilots not being interested is as I stated earlier - loss of salary, allowances and countless other benefits gained over many years in mainline Britannia. There has been a distinct dis-interest among current company pilots.

This new lo-cost operation will have little to do with the present airline - possibly even a different name.

[Ballinthemiddle]

Call me old fashioned if you like but the old phrase "you are a bit late in the game old boy" springs to mind!..... more jobs for the boys from the forces what!!....:ok:

[U/S President]

So if Britannia Airways is now going to be called ‘Thomson powered by Britannia’, will the new low-cost unit still be called Britannia Express as previously though? Or will it become Thomson Express? Before this announcement, I thought a combined rebrand to TUI Airlines for Hapag Lloyd Flug and Britannia Airways was more likely. Just goes to show what I know.

[redsnail]

Very strong rumour that it is Coventry. Hangar being built, terminal being built. Roads being modified.

[middlepath]

I don`t see the benefits gained by changing colour and name, unless they have something in mind eg: spliting the company or selling some of the unprofitable outfit in the groups.

[Tha' what?]

I reckon the base for Britannia Express will be Luton!

[FLYMATE]

What happens when one of these Thomson painted aircraft operates for another tour operator? When I worked for them 90% of the flying was for Thomson, but the rest of the flying was done for other operators. Not sure those would like to operate flights advertising their competition. It would be such a shame to see the words "Britannia" disappear or be relegated to just the nose cone. The word "Britannia" has been around since the 1960's and to just change it to compete with First Choice Airways and Thomas Cook is just a knee jerk reaction. I don't see the other operators using Britannia liking the rebranding or repaint at all...

[GW76]

I suspect this was the plan from the beginning. It would have too much of an uproar if they had done the whole baby blue TUI thing and change the name at the same time, so I think it was planned and staged:{

[FastJet Wannabe]

Has anything been posted officially anywhere regarding the new name for the airline (as in, the original airline, not the new low-cost one!)

I've had a look at Britannia's and TUI's web sites, but can't see anything....

Surely there would be a press release of some kind....

[Man Flex]

So are the new Airbus aircraft being delivered next year for the lost cost start up or fleet replacement for mainline?

By the way, can't see Coventry as a base somehow, new terminal or not.

[Buster the Bear]

TUI UK drops Britannia brand, Lunn Poly safe

TUI UK’s drive to increase its seat-only business is behind the decision to drop its Britannia airline brand in favour of Thomson.
UK managing director Chris Mottershead said: ‘People are bombarded with advertisements and offers from a huge range of travel brands these days. We aim to use the growth of our seat-only business as a means of focusing the customer even more on Thomson.

‘We want customers to have a clear understanding that Thomson is the leading holiday company in the UK and that we can cater for all their travel needs whether it's a one way flight to Malaga or a five star, all-inclusive holiday to the Maldives.’
Mottershead took the opportunity to insist that TUI UK has no plans to rebrand Lunn Poly, describing it as the high street market leader with very strong customer awareness. ‘We see no value in rebranding our Lunn Poly shop network’ he said.

[Boy of the night]

4 x 737's to start with, no Airbus(yet!);)

[U/S President]

FastJet Wannabe: Has anything been posted officially anywhere regarding the new name
Here’s the press release (http://www.thomsontravelgroup.com/press/news_releases/indexFullStory.asp?NewsID=116) on the TUI UK website.

[Cyrano]

Putting two and two together...

The BHX slot filings after the recent scheduling conference make interesting reading.

Of course there's no guarantee that any airline will fly any or all of the slots it applies for, but still...

A carrier with 3-letter code BAL (Britannia, I think) has filed for daily services with 737s (though they've specified 737-500s, which is odd) from BHX to each of the following:
IBZ, AGP, ALC, BCN, MAD, AMS, ORY, CIA, VCE, NAP.

I'd say that's about 4 737s-worth of flying...

Interestingly, Britannia (sorry, "Thomson") has also filed a regular charter programme from BHX under two-letter code "BY".

[Pirate]

I went for an assessment yesterday. They weren't very forthcoming as there seems to be an embargo on information until an official press announcement. They did say that the Britannia name is to be retained, although the TUI logo will be more in evidence. Ts & Cs broadly industry standard - not as good as mainstream White Hat. Looks like a March 2004 start. No info on base or 737 variant although the general consensus of the pilots present was Coventry and -500s.

[unwiseowl]

not too many 500's were built. I wonder where they're getting them from?

[LVL CHG]

500s could be from Continental or UAL in the States.

[egnxema]

...and bmibaby are selling theirs, baby are buying more -300s.

[Flightrider]

Hapag Lloyd has five 737-500s on strength - two of which are currently on lease to Malev with the leases due to expire in December 2003. Two are out in Georgia and the fifth is in Hapag Lloyd Express. HLX's 737-500s also had 128 seats (the same as being proposed for the UK operator). It doesn't appear to be rocket science to put two and two together to assume that the Britannia aircraft will be the HLX 737-500s.

Might it be called TuiLite (pronounced "Twilight")?

[Farty Flaps]

I just filled in the application that has been sitting on my desk for a week. Nothing changed, large spaces to explain your educational errors at sixteen, lots of questions about your time to solo (on a captains application form), and a limited space to expalin what you are about.
What is the obsession in this country with school exams that are so long ago as to be irrelevant to hiring a current 737 captain.
IMHO it is discriminatory in favour of chaps who have been thru a standard grammar,uni,raf, uk training programme. So if those standard Brittania attitudes still apply how will they fare in a non old boy market like lo cost. I feel i have alot to offer anew company but having filled in that form i feel like a 16 yr old again standing in front of my father being told i would come to a sticky end. right then Chip dusted off. hope i get in

:cool: :p

[shlittlenellie]

Just having a 737 ticket isn't enough. Perhaps it is for some operators. Britannia have a well-tested recruitment process and they are happy with the individuals who have been successful over the years.

The application form is a brief snapshot and the first stage of any assessment. Companies should always have a strong idea of the type of individual that they want to recruit; one that will fit with the culture: i.e. a known quantity. People conform to predictable behaviour characteristics based on their background - more than most of us would be willing to admit.

A likely reason that someone has a problem or a hang-up with educational qualifications is if they don't have any. Academic qualifications are a useful indicator of an individual's ability outside of the practical box of day-to-day flying. Several have succeeded to high levels without a strong academic background but that requires a leap of faith by an employer; there's insufficient time for that in a recruitment programme.

Strong 'A' levels and a degree are only irrelevant if you have them. By today's standards and equally relevant to the past, certain qualifications are a demonstration of an ability to work and apply oneself to a higher level - exactly how a pilot should perform, consistently, in the workplace.

Stop downgrading my profession, status is earned and we should do our best to keep it by our own actions and abilities.

[Pirate]

From my experience, recruiters in most disciplines view the value of any paper qualification as being inversely proportional to the length of time since it was obtained. Britannia seem to have had a successful recruiting policy over the years so I would guess that they have taken this particular fact on board.

I, too, get mildly irritated at having to fill in reams about the distant past but I do see it from the other side of the table - the HR people and others involved in making initial selections have to have some kind of common datum to work from. If the process is leavened with common sense, no harm is done.

Wouldn't it be nice if the airlines could come up with an industry-standard application form in two parts? The first part could be common for education, work history, flying experience, nationality etc. which we could all quickly cut-and-paste, leaving the second part for the special requirements of the specific airline.

Confundemus

[Mother]

Just heard that DE Trng Capt pay is £61k plus £12.50p/block hour.
Another wasted couple of hours filling in that wretched form.

[unwiseowl]

That's pretty poor! How much for line capt's & F/O's?

[LTNman]

Poor!!!! You guys want to get a job in the real world:yuk: :yuk:

[Pirate]

They told me it was £61K for line captains.

[KAT TOO]

As before with a lot of companies that try to go from where they are, to where they (think) they want to go, they will get a wake up call, big style. Sure mainline Britannia are an exceptional company in many respects, but if they become tuilite and want to take on the loco's they will need to get their cost down big style and that starts with the wages up front. Next they'll want you to have a type rating because it saves time, cash and lots of line trainers time.

If you hopefulls think you are joining a `junior`Britannia,with a route to mainline, think again. The boys and girls at bmi-regional have been `sold` that line with first big blue,then the baby and a how many regional pilots (bmi)are working for baby after a year and a bit? `ONE` !! and he was ex mainline and rated by them in the first place.

So see them for what they will become, another Jet2/DUO/mylite and the rest that are late on the band wagon. Ryanair might be crap at many things including employing pilots that speak english, but watch their results this week.Its OK been all posh and having pilots that know the finer points of life from their RAF paid for training and university education paid for by the taxes of ex-Durham miners, but as in life you get what you pay for, trouble everyone wants to pay less and get more for it passenger and airlines a like. I am sorry to say that the Britannia name going is the same as `rule` Britannai's shield in terms of the decline of the UK standing in the world or 52nd State

[Meeb]

Well the starting salary for an F/O is the best there is in 737 land! ;)

[unwiseowl]

So far, we have been told 61k for trainers, 61k for line capt!?
So how much F/O?????

[Pirate]

Unwise Owl:

It's £38K for F/Os.

KatTwo:

Do you use that name because you have a chip on both shoulders?

Confundemus

[FLYMATE]

It is a shame that the Britannia name is being relegated to 2nd place under Thomson. As done by Thomas Cook and MyTravel, the rebranding makes the airline look a bit High Streety, down market and tabloid, a bit like easyJet plastered on the side of the fuselage. Where has the imagination in designing an airline livery gone? Blue with a red smiley face looks cheap but now to lose the only thing the guys were proud to fly under-a great name and history-is quite criminal...I wonder how the German owners would like it if ,say Luthansa was painted out and called Deutche Reisen painted in all the colours of the rainbow....

[KAT TOO]

Pirate

no chips just a sense of where this industry is heading. If you come from a back ground(private or forces) where money doesn't matter, then you are going to find that the ever increasing penny pinching adopted by all airlines a bit of a shock to the system.

I think that the thompson/tui group have already devalued what was a great airline and chasing locos into a market that very few are making any money in is not the worlds brightest idea.

My comment about the finer points were `tongue in cheek`i don't give a fig what peoples back ground is as long as they are up to the job and i have yet to meet a fixwing ex forces jock that isn't.

Britannia have thir own selection procedures to ensure they get what the want, but it doesn't mean its any better or safer than Ryanair, after all for all the group exercises,psycho testing and best of the best approach,they have still had more Hull lossses than ryanair or easy and do a fraction of the number of take off and landings that thoose two do.

They might like the discipline that you get, but they still managed to get someone doing C152 circuits in a 757 round jodrell bank!

It just go's to prove that at the end of the day we were all born naked, we all fart and w**k(even the girls)so why prat about with all this crap, if the guy looks right, sounds right, has got the right licence and a UK passport or EU one for that matter (except French) i'd give em the job and send the HR people out to earn some money for the airline.

There you see no chip!!!:ok:

[Buster the Bear]

Airport could be gateway to Europe Nov 21 2003

The UK's largest holiday company could be setting up no-frills flights from Coventry airport.

TUI, which includes Lunn Poly and Thomson, is believed to be in negotiations with the airport at Baginton over plans to set up a service to Europe.

Up to five flights could leave from Coventry Airport every day, taking 10,000 passengers a week to European destinations.

The flights could begin next year but a Coventry Airport spokesman said it was too early in the negotiations to comment on the plans.

The airport, which is owned by Air Atlantique, issued a statement which read: "Coventry Airport has never made any secret of the fact that they would welcome passenger services through Coventry Airport and to that end they are holding discussions with a number of airlines.

"It is however too early in the negotiation process to provide any additional information or comment at this stage."

TUI would not confirm the plans. A spokeswoman for the company said they had no firm plans for expansion at any airports, adding: "In response to customer demand for increased flexibility, we made an announcement in September of our intention to grow our seat-only business next summer by adding two extra aircraft to the Britannia fleet. More details will follow."

Coventry Airport's application for a new passenger terminal is being considered by Warwick District Council.

The airport has applied for permission to build a terminal capable of carrying one million incoming and one million outgoing passengers a year.

People living near the airport are taking part in a consultation on noise limiting measures.

[Buster the Bear]

Some very unique and interesting airfields are being examined for their UK operation, or so good rumour has it. A 'niche market' they certainly would have! Taking the Ryanair example of using under-utilised runways a stage further!

[fivegreenlight]

come on then Buster, are we talking grass strips or what?

[WHBM]

Up to five flights could leave from Coventry Airport every day, taking 10,000 passengers a week to European destinations.

That's 286 pax per flight. What are they going to operate? 767s?

[Ian Farquharson]

I think it means 5 depatures and 5 arrivals per day, which would equate to 143 pax per flight, looks like it could be 737-300's !

Ian

Balsall Common (not far from Coventry)

[WHBM]

5 daily round trips would equate to two based aircraft, which seems much too small an ambition for a new, separate unit. My hunch would be that the 10,000 departing pax is more like it but they have understated the number of flights needed to handle this.

But with MyTravel and Ryanair at Birmingham, and Easy and Baby at East Midlands, has the Midlands really got the potential for a fifth low-cost operator?

[Buster the Bear]

Think of a paved runway that is 7000ft long or more and maybe not served by commercial activity!

Niche, I said niche!

[WHBM]

Buster:

Heathrow runway 23 ??!!

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Look, its going to be CVT.

Cheers

WWW

[Buster the Bear]

I would not disagree WWW, but have you discovered the other airports they are looking in addition to Coventry? Very interesting!

[Man Flex]

Think of a paved runway that is 7000ft long or more and maybe not served by commercial activity!

Brize Norton?
Farnborough?
Filton?
Lyneham?
Manston?

[LTNman]

Is this a clue or a false trail , a Boeing 747 was blown up here not too long ago as a test, 6nm south of Leicester, 3000m runway.

[Buster the Bear]

Man Flex, one or more of your list are indeed possible? My source is sound, but to reveal, could cause them some problems.

[unwiseowl]

Bruntingthorpe? This game will end in tears when a 737 hits a glider or a light aircraft!

[Buster the Bear]

Who said Bruntingthorpe?

[sharpshot]

Well Upper Heyford..........Nah
Enstone.............!!
Silverstone...........No Jackie wouldn't go for that
Wellesbourne....terrible dilemma for EGBB ATC
Bitteswell - no built on

C'mon, has to be Brum, EMA or CVT surely?

Oh surely not Baxterley
:p

[HOODED]

Well Coventry is less than 6000ft so thats out eh Buster! How abour Hucknall, bit close to EMA though but right next to M1 and if they used 757s they would have no problem with engine spares.:D My guess would be Filton or Farnborough from that list. The others being either too busy with military or miles from any reasonable sized city.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Look - I've told you its going to be CVT. End of story. The runway is fine - no different perf wise than Bristol.

Cheers

WWW

[Man Flex]

WWW

I have noticed on this forum that you do have a tendency to make radical judgements about subjects when you don't appear to have any positive proof. If you know something that we don't then why not share it with us and then you can sit back with that satisfied look on your face?

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Manflex - what tendency?

I know but just can't elaborate how I know its CVT. It'll be officially announced fairly soon anyway.

Cheers,

WWW

[OLNEY 1 BRAVO]

You can take Farnborough off the list - restricted opening hours, limited number of movements each year and further restrictions on the number of "big biz jet movements - i.e. BBJ's and A319's.

Anyone for Alconbury?

[spencer bear]

any more news on this ? has anyone been for interview ? if so any info would be great !!

[MerchantVenturer]

HOODED,

Can't see Filton having a glimmer of a chance.

There was a public enquiry held in the mid 1990s when Bae wanted to turn the field into a city-type airport. The government minister of the day turned down the application following the enquiry. The western approach is over an urban area consisting of thousands of houses.

Furthermore, that would give Bristol two airports. Would that be viable?

It would be great because Filton should have become Bristol's airport years ago: much bigger site than BRS; better weather; longer runway; next to motorways and mainline railways; easier to get to.

But the chance has been missed and the south west will have to accept the Lulsgate site as its main airport. In fairness, it has progressed phenomenally, particularly when all its disadvantages are taken into account.

But Filton is a non-starter.

[IanH]

What about ......

Finningley

or

Thurleigh ( the old RAE base at Bedford )

[Man Flex]

My information is a little out of date. Has this airfield been developed since the early nineties? I would imagine that the very least a new low cost operator would require at an airfield would be...

a Terminal
ATC
Customs
Ground Handling
Fuel
Radio Navigation aids

Low cost? Sounds bloody expensive to me!

[unwiseowl]

Who said Bruntingthorpe? LTN Man did! I agree that Bruntingthorpe is little mare than a barren strip of tarmac and that Coventry is the likely place.

[Flightrider]

Has anyone considered that most of Thomson's current planning is being done on the basis that MyTravel isn't there for next summer, so they may just be holding off any announcement to see if anything does indeed happen with MyTravel? They'd look pretty stupid to announce Coventry, see MYT disappear on the next day and then announce a move to Birmingham to take over the ready-made market position of MyTravelLite.

[Neo]

Flightrider -

I can't see Thomson wanting to take on such as risky venture with the German parent looking a shade short of cash.

A much better bet for expansion at BHX would be a takeover of MyTLite by Monarch - same aircraft type, already a Monarch base, routes generally a good fit into Monarch's Schedule service. Don't expect any fanfares about it, just pax turning up to fly MyTLite and finding it's now part of Monarch. Not necessarily a bad thing, no?

[egeebee]

I hear it will be called "TUI Express" and it will be at Coventry "West Midlands International Airport". New Terminal Building already in place

[Waggon rut]

I have been asked back for day 2, anyboby give me some idea about the interview(s). I am quite happy with the sim detail, just have to give it my best shot. But two heavy duty interviews I am not that happy with.
Regards

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

See - I told you it was going to be Coventry.

Can't see it myself. New airport (as far as pax are concerned) + new airline. Stiff competition from BHX and EMA.

Ah, well, best of luck to all involved. Apparently all the ex-Britannia mainline joiners have the right to go back to mainline in 5 years time anway.

Cheers

WWW

[Buster the Bear]

I was told a few weeks back that it was Covenrty, I dismissed this as being absured due to runway length, but it could actually be true! Can a 737-500 fully loaded make the hot spots of Spain when the temperature is say 25 degrees at Coventry?

I was also told that one of thier first planes was at Seattle, not necessarily a new build. Filton had been looked at in some depth and that there could be use of MOD airfileds as TUI are aiming at a niche market.

Pilots transfering to Express would keep thier terms and conditions and could transfer back at sometime in the future.

http://www.gifs.net/animate/bear3p.gif

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Pilots transferring to Express will loose their final salary pension scheme as well as other goodies to go onto what looks very much like every other low cost airlines employment contract. All ex-mainline have a get out of jail card of a return, with seniority intact, after a minimum of 5 years.

The 500's are already in the group in Scandanavia.

Fitted with the decent engines there should only be one or two odd days of the year (read hot, low pressure, wet days) when performance becomes critical at CVT.

Cheers

WWW

[Tommyinyork]

Why start operations from Coventry when Birmingham Airport is no more than 20 miles away. Stupid if you ask me, Coventry should just be used for Domestic flights, nothing more.