The Jaguar Fan Club
5th Nov 2003, 02:32
(I have posted this in both Military Aircrew and Rotorheads)
The military aircraft and those who support them (FRA etc) seem to be increasingly disregarding all the information printed on their charts with the introduction of the MDA's. They also seem to miss the fact that the base of most MDA's are well above the HMR's for a reason, but still insist on conducting exercises at low level below them, right in the teeth of sustained helicopter operations. We have a JMC on at the moment and all the visiting aircraft call us as per the ACN, but local based jets (no names, no pack drill) still get in the way and make life difficult for everyone.
Do these crews actually brief the HMR's? It seemingly is becoming the norm to ignore them and use the "It's class G mate..." excuse. Class G it may be, but I always thought CFS tought AIRMANSHIP as well! :confused:
Believe it or not, it is not always Air Traffic's fault when two aircraft get close in the North Sea, especially when the aircraft are not always in radar cover, or are at the limits of cover. Military Fast Jet jockeys are reluctant to tell even their own controllers (both ATC and Fighter Controllers)what they are doing and the first we both know is when a pilot calls to say "I'd like to report an airprox".
At my unit, it is very difficult even when providing the highest service we can (Modified RAS) and with the aircrew being VERY aware of other airspace users, a 5 ship of fast movers working SFC to FL240 end up in a mix up all round your Super Puma doing 120 kts. Where does he go? Which way to turn? Climb? Descend? Co-ordinate with a Fighter Control Unit? Very difficult!
We can only provide crews with the information we have, which at best can be ancient history by the time we get it.
To the Mil guys reading this, I would be interested in your views on the North sea HMR's and why you get stuck in about them day after day seemingly disregarding the promulgated routes, and the information passed on traffic through Buchan and Neat. Each one of these helis carries up to 21 people!
To the North sea crews reading this, Hope this helps to emphasise that we are trying our best to keep you in the loop with regard to the mil activity and to avoid it, but we have, at present, no way of esuring that you wont come face to face with a fast pointy thing on the HMR's (especially when working Information...remember no radar!).
Rant over. Not pointing the finger at anyone, just keen to get views!!
TJFC
:ok:
The military aircraft and those who support them (FRA etc) seem to be increasingly disregarding all the information printed on their charts with the introduction of the MDA's. They also seem to miss the fact that the base of most MDA's are well above the HMR's for a reason, but still insist on conducting exercises at low level below them, right in the teeth of sustained helicopter operations. We have a JMC on at the moment and all the visiting aircraft call us as per the ACN, but local based jets (no names, no pack drill) still get in the way and make life difficult for everyone.
Do these crews actually brief the HMR's? It seemingly is becoming the norm to ignore them and use the "It's class G mate..." excuse. Class G it may be, but I always thought CFS tought AIRMANSHIP as well! :confused:
Believe it or not, it is not always Air Traffic's fault when two aircraft get close in the North Sea, especially when the aircraft are not always in radar cover, or are at the limits of cover. Military Fast Jet jockeys are reluctant to tell even their own controllers (both ATC and Fighter Controllers)what they are doing and the first we both know is when a pilot calls to say "I'd like to report an airprox".
At my unit, it is very difficult even when providing the highest service we can (Modified RAS) and with the aircrew being VERY aware of other airspace users, a 5 ship of fast movers working SFC to FL240 end up in a mix up all round your Super Puma doing 120 kts. Where does he go? Which way to turn? Climb? Descend? Co-ordinate with a Fighter Control Unit? Very difficult!
We can only provide crews with the information we have, which at best can be ancient history by the time we get it.
To the Mil guys reading this, I would be interested in your views on the North sea HMR's and why you get stuck in about them day after day seemingly disregarding the promulgated routes, and the information passed on traffic through Buchan and Neat. Each one of these helis carries up to 21 people!
To the North sea crews reading this, Hope this helps to emphasise that we are trying our best to keep you in the loop with regard to the mil activity and to avoid it, but we have, at present, no way of esuring that you wont come face to face with a fast pointy thing on the HMR's (especially when working Information...remember no radar!).
Rant over. Not pointing the finger at anyone, just keen to get views!!
TJFC
:ok: