B206 sideways into the salty stuff?

[Vfrpilotpb]

For us in the English TV area tonight (tuesday 4th Nov) there is one of those programmes that show people doing dangerous acts(channel 4) that come unstuck, the trailer of which shows a white B206 pulling a speedboat from the central lifting point, the rope breaks and the JR side slips loses height and enters the kingdom of Neptune, I have only seen possibly a 4 second screening of this event.

However what puzzels me is, if the JR was under power to tow the said boat, when the rope broke you would have expected the thing to leap higher into the air, but instead it very quickly, as most Heli pilots will know in the blink of an eye slipped sideways, lost height and crashed dramatically into the sea, WHY?
can any of you throw any light on this.

[Flingwing207]

Not having seen the video, two thoughts come to mind.

First is that when the rope broke, the free end got into the rotor system, causing loss of control.

Second is that the rope got wrapped up in the helicopter, then broke.

Pure speculation on my part.

[Crashondeck]

What sort of donkey would try towing a boat with a helicopter?? I've seen pictures of helicopters being used to tow water skiers, but why try to tow a boat.

Not seen the clip either, but will be glued to the telly tonight. (VFR...pb - we get Channel 4 in Scotland too!!!!).

Could the JR be deliberately flown out of balance so that the pilot could see the boat? If so, there will be sideways cyclic and a fair amount of pedal to counteract the resistance of the boat. If the rope snapped, it would take lightning reactions to get all the forces back into equilibrium with the rotor disk directly over the skids. Only a thought....

[Whirlygig]

Thinks it might be on channel 5 - I saw the trailer after the Ultimate Helicopter prog last night.

Whirlygig

[ShyTorque]

Not seen it but perhaps the engine failed first and the pilot operated the jettison handle?

[md 600 driver]

whirly gig whats the ultimate helicopter prog

[Vfrpilotpb]

Channel 5 at 20.00Hrs tonight will show the white B206 hitting the drink , sorry mentioned wrong prog earlier.

The Ultimate Helicopter programme was on Ch5 last night was very good, but about 10 hours too short! showed the boffins who made a new rotor/blade design for the Lynx allowing it to reach 249.9945678 MPH in forward flight, they should have alook at the R22:E

[sprocket]

Vfrpilotpb: Saw that program a couple of weeks ago. I dont have the answers to your question, even after a couple of replays.
The rope seemed to hit the belly of the 206, his lack of airspeed for the amount of nose down attitude would have meant, perhaps, he needed more height to recover!

Besides, I was more intersested in why the girl in the boat was putting her top back on. :}

[Whirlygig]

Lynx allowing it to reach 249.9945678 MPH

vfrpilotpb - please tell me you looked that up and do not know that off by heart.

.....and I thought I needed to get out more :)

Just saw the whole clip - the 206 simply seems to fall into the sea!!

Cheers

Whirlygig

[ali250]

I agree with Crashondeck, “What sort of donkey would try towing a boat with a helicopter??”

Last time someone tried that he got eaten by a great white!

[ATN]

I have seen a pic of a Boeing 107 towing a drilling rig off Newfoundland.

ATN

[belly tank]

Having seen the clip several times it seems that

1. the rope breaks about halfway down the line and if you look closely you can seen just before the breakage there is some sort of knot in the rope this proved to be a breaking point to start things off

2. just backtracking a bit before the breakage the 206 had a huge nose down attitude in trying to pull this boat and if you look at the boat its certainly mooving quite rapidly before the breakage occurs

3. you could imagine the rotor thrust at this huge nose down attitude and basically when the load or sling broke he just catapulted into the water. he would just not have the time to pull out of this unusual attitude.

4. I could imagine the insurance company would be a little less than impressed!!

Just my opinion thats all

[Dynamic Component]

Seen the clip.Can't remember exactly but this is just speculation:

Rope was over skid, so pilot compensates for it by puting in oposite cyclic.Rope snaps and BaraBing. To much left cyclic =drink

[the wizard of auz]

If its the same clip we saw in auz, it went in backwards and rolling to the left.
low airspeed, over compensation on the cyclic rearwards to make up for the large nose down attitude and a bit of the same for left cyclic, as well as not enough altitude to recover from the over compensation, tail rotor went in first and dragged the rest of it in with MRRPM decaying and MR blades getting shorter and shorter by the second
All in all....really stupid. :rolleyes:

[DynamicallyUnstable]

Is there a downloadable clip anyone knows of?

[Crashondeck]

ATN

"Beoing 107 towing a rig off Newfoundland"

Is that the picture showing the topside of all the blades, 70 degrees nose down, nose altitude 30'?

Bet he's glad the tow rope didnt snap!

[EESDL]

Amazing what people will do to pull!
Pulling a boat is not a problem as long as you have a strong enough rope and don't go anything faster than walking pace!!
As pointed out previously, the nose down indicates a huge force - not unsurprizingly. You have a massive (Staines) reaction on the blades. If that reaction is removed as quickly as it was, the helicopter will not 'spring' up as some imagine but the blades will react and the change of RAF will literally stall the blades in an instant, producing ****** all lift and down you go Dumbo!
Haven't tried it for real but TR failure was not the issue as the rope seemed to miss.

[Scattercat]

On helicopters pulling things .... I watched a B222 tow a B206L (post engine problem) for some distance once. Was all going OK until one of the floats tore off the 206 and it rolled over. Fortunatly the guy in the 222 owned them both so he couldn't sack anyone!:O

[vorticey]

you's all realize it's the sudden increase in induced airflow as the helicopter suddenly accellerates, (in through the top) that the pilot encounters without hight to recover. :confused:

[Flingwing207]

vorticey said:
you's all realize it's the sudden increase in induced airflow as the helicopter suddenly accellerates, (in through the top) that the pilot encounters without hight to recover.

EESDL said:
As pointed out previously, the nose down indicates a huge force - not unsurprizingly. You have a massive (Staines) reaction on the blades. If that reaction is removed as quickly as it was, the helicopter will not 'spring' up as some imagine but the blades will react and the change of RAF will literally stall the blades in an instant, producing ****** all lift and down you go Dumbo!
OK you guys, in English please...

[MaxNg]

Flingwing207

The only "Stains" evident in this accident were on the pilots seat
:D

[ShyTorque]

Gosh, I've been lucky.

All that time spent firefighting, rapidly dumping a few tons of water, put me in a similar situation every time. So did a couple of underslung loads that fell off hook some years ago.

Thank goodness I managed to miss the ground......by going upwards. :rolleyes:

[Gainesy]

Perhaps Nick L. can comment on the dynamics /methods etc of towing used by the mine-sweeping MH-53s?

[vorticey]

not a similar situation at all! but if you had the bucket caut in a tree and tried to pull it out (not verticaly) that would be similar.

FLINGWING
from a hover, if you pull all available power and pole it over so not to gain hight. the result will be a verry nose down attitude (because the disc is sucking in new still air), but if you keep the agressive attitude once a bit of speed is achieved, the increase in airflow into the top of the disc means the disc now has to suck that down, aswell as the air needed for the job (like walking up the downward escelator), it will just plow in like old saltie!. more power will fix it though, but if you have no more, youll have to settle for reducing the forward thrust for some upward thrust (pulling the cyclic back).:ok:

[Flingwing207]

vorticey

Okey-dokey! Well, I've got to go now. No, really that's fine, nice chatting with you.

[ShyTorque]

Vorticey,

Thank you for your explanation.