ORACLE/VERITAS Medal - the blunties last word?

[Uncle Ginsters]

Whilst it was great to see today in DCIs that the Oracle/Veritas OSM criterion have been decided, somehow the qualifying period seems to miss the first 2 1/2 months of the Op.

Is it a coincidence that the period does coincide quite nicely with the time at which the major Bluntie Build-up occured (at least in Seeb)?? Who decides this stuff?

Just interested,

Uncle G


(edited for child-like spelling :D )

[MATZ]

What were the dates given??

MATZ

[Whipping Boy's SATCO]

All rather complicated. DCI J126/03 has all the details. If my memory serves me correct, 21 days continuous in theatre from the beginning of Nov 01 to Feb 02 or 30 days thereafter. But loads of blurb about where you were etc regarding "bars" and "rosettes". Bottom line: on the ground in Afghanistan and you get a bar, ducking and diving terrorists in Islamabad and you don't (I stand-by to be corrected by someone who actually read the small print).

Proudly, I marched/leopard crawled into handbrake house, DCI in hand, to claim my due reward for deeds of daring do, only to be met by SAC Scroggins who spurted thorugh a bag of cheese and onion crisps:

Du'nt know nuffink about no medals, sir.

[Uncle Ginsters]

Basically it counts the dates as:
Karachi - 25 Jan -28Feb02
Seeb - 01Dec01 - 28Feb02
Thumrait - 15Dec01-28Feb02

Anyone operating from inside Afghanistan is (Op dependant) 11 Sep 01

Although,as stated, it's all a bit complicated!! There's an aircrew disclaimer in the notes that talks about 6 sorties in/over Afghanistan, but no dates are given....... guess we just apply and see how long the letter takes to filter back :D

It does seem that the RAF are particularly bad at awarding it's people. Note the list of TELIC honours issued last week. The RAF/RN/Army ratios in the list seem rather detrimental to the effort put in by the RAF at large.......no disrespect to the guys on the ground!

Maybe we're all REMFs at heart :8 (fish,fish!)

Still congrats to all those honoured last week - nice one. :D

Uncle G

[Lionel Lion]

Excellent, that means a certain lorry driver WO from Sainsbury will get a medal for his..............efforts.

:mad:

[albert the first]

Is the criteria for getting the medal published by the MOD on the internet anywhere???

[MOA]

So let me get this straight. Was out in the great sandpit that was Saif Sareea II. Hung around because OEF kicked off. Flew for a month on OEF but went home beginning of Nov 01 due hours flown. Therfore from what I read, no medal!

Seems a little odd that the qualification starts at Dec 01. We were flying OEF trips waaaaaaay before then. Anymore insight to a link on the good old internet?:confused:

[Experienced Bloke]

Any one got any ideas about qualification for HQ staff. Got Well & Truly dicked to go and work for the JFACC in PSAB for 2 months at the beginning and am interested if the CAOC losers like myself get anything. Ta

[Mightycrewseven]

Spent over two months flying as part of Op Veritas (even got the T-shirt) out of SEEB (part of Zone 2 according to DCI's) from Oct to mid Dec 01.
Also qualified for the number of sorties needed for the clasp but someone in their wisdom has put in the DCI's that the medal qualification start date is 1 Dec 01....WTF?????:* :* :*

I don't do my job to get medals (not a Mutley) but it really grips my :mad: when a medal is issued but you get cheated out of it, someone has :mad: -up again.


Not a very happy M7 :*

p.s. Experienced Bloke , PSAB = 21 days continuous service from 1 Dec 01 - 28 Feb 02 or 30 days continuous service from 1 Mar 02 - TBD, this gets you OSM, No clasp.

[Mr C Hinecap]

So.....

Does that mean that everyone that did the job from Mar 02 - Mar 03 get nothing although the Op was still running?

[Mightycrewseven]

No

According to the DCI as of Mar 02 all that is different is that the criteria changed from 21 days (Cont) to 30 days (Cont) and that the end date has not yet been specified.

M7

[SirPercyWare-Armitag]

From what I can gather from DCI Joint 126/93, everyone who has done 21-30 days in theatre from 11 Sep 01 will qualify.
It actually seems quite a comprehensive distribution but it does exclude Saif Sareea chaps.

Some of the criteria has been published on www.worcmedals.com. These people have been selling the minature for a couple of months

www.worcmedals.com

[Scud-U-Like]

http://www.hotink.com/wacky/mfiles/m-ani.gif

[Dan Winterland]

Sounds familiar. Anyone remember Kosovo, where dodging SAM 6s over Serbia didn't qualify you for a medal, but six weeks sunbathing on the beach in Italy did!

F@(£ing blunties.

[European Crash]

Slight failing in the logic, Dan Winterland. Blunties don't make the policy for awarding medals...that is left to the grown ups who invariably have brevets and lots of honours from HM the Queen. etc.

Blunties administer the distribution of medals (and are not always that sharp in doing so). A conversation several years ago with a desk officer when being trawled to go OOA:

"But I've just returned from Kosovo". "No you haven't", "Yes I have, and I've just got the medal from your PMA colleagues to prove it". "Well that may be so, but it doesn't mean that you've been there." "What about my detachment report and commendation?" "Don't seem to have that, but there is a four month period where you are not in the UK - please explain" and so on..

On a similar vein, yesterday I asked in Gen Office for the DCI(JS) in question. Haven't seen it (whilst chomping into a bacon butty) - probably due to the mail strike - look on the MODWEB.

We haven't got access to MODWEB...

Perhaps medals should be awarded for perserverance in the face of overwhelming disinterest!

[YellowBelly]

Believe its worth reminding ourselves of the timescales for the conflict. The website below includes a useful summary:


http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/enduring-freedom.htm

The following paragraphs from the article are particularly interesting:

"OEF commenced on Oct. 7, 2001. Early combat operations included a mix of air strikes from land-based B-1, B-2 and B-52 bombers; carrier-based F-14 and F/A-18 fighters; and Tomahawk cruise missiles launched from both U.S. and British ships and submarines."

"The British had also defined the goals of their involvement (termed Operation Veritas) in "Her Majesty's Government's Campaign Objectives," dated Oct. 16th."

"By October 20, 2001 US and Coalition forces had destroyed virtually all Taliban air defenses and had conducted a highly successful direct action mission on the residence of Mullah Omar in the middle of the Taliban capital, Qandahar. During this time frame Special Forces detachments linked up with Anti-Taliban leaders and coordinated operational fires and logistics support on multiple fronts. Twenty days later, the provincial capital of Mazar-e Sharif fell. In rapid succession, Herat, Kabul, and Jalalabad followed. By mid- December, US Marines had secured Qandahar Airport and the Taliban capital was in the hands of Anti-Taliban forces. Within weeks the Taliban and Al Qaida were reduced to isolated pockets of fighters. On 22 December Franks traveled to Kabul to attend a ceremony marking the inauguration of the Afghan interim government -- 78 days after the beginning of combat operations."

So, can anybody explain the logic of the start date (Dec 01) of the qualifying period?

[Big Unit Specialist]

Try this link for some ammunition to hurl at the blunties


http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/download.asp?docid=510483

The dates cited in the DCI are rather odd given that I had a Gong pinned on me by HM the Queen for services in Afghanistan between the dates of 1 Oct 2001 and 31 Mar 2002 (Op Hons List (Afghanistan) Dated 29 Oct 2002).

She didn't mention the change of dates when we had our little chat. Neither did she seem to be bothered that the country I had been in does not now appear in either Zone 1 or Zone 2?


I wonder if I should stir things up at the medals office at PMA?....:rolleyes:

[Uncle Ginsters]

Well, it's taken long enough for this to some about - the Medals office has seemingly been busy with the medal for Suez until now:yuk:

But given that the Air op started in late-Sep and the offensive part of that ended in early Feb(?), that's at least 2/3 of it's participants discounted from the OSM. Just a bit confused by the whole decision. :confused:

Has anybody been a part of the Medals office, who/wherever they are? What basis do they use for these criteria?
Just interested,

Uncle G

[albert the first]

Is it me or has this medal been designed to only be awarded to blunties.

You could have done a million trips into area, been shoot at, spotlighted etc. but if you haven't done 21/30 days continuous in TTH or the like then you get nothing. However, if you spent 30 days filing and processing 1771's in a nice air conditioned portacabin you get it.

Its not that I really care about the medal itself (or who gets it), but it just seems the whole qualifying criteria is biased towards non aircrew types.

I may have misinterpreted the rules and if so Im sorry, but I dont think I have.

Rant over

[StopStart]

Again, I'm not a Mutley but thought that I might qualify for this and that I might possibly, perhaps, maybe have half-earned something for flying in and out of Kabul.

The qualifying criteria are all fairly obvious however there are two notes at the bottom that refer to aircrew. According to Note 1 I think I qualify but according to the rest of it I don't. Does anyone know what the Notes actually refer to or are they just totally seperate qualifying criteria? Folks here didn't know......

:confused:

Anyway, as long as someone sunning themselves in Diego Garcia gets one, I'll be happy.

:D

[albert the first]

If I'v read it right you need to have done ethier 21 days in zone 2 before the 28 feb or 30 days after. To get the afgan clasp you have to of done 6 take offs and landings in afghanistan before the 28 feb or 8 after. So that means if you haven't done the 21 or 30 days you don't get a medal. If you have done this in zone 1 you get the clasp without the takeoffs and landings.

[Mad_Mark]

Anyone actually got theirs yet?

Mad Mark!!! :mad:

[RAZORxi]

Seems to me that a LOT of people need medals to make them men????

[WorkingHard]

Why do you need medals for doing the job you are well paid to do? If I may quote

" don't do my job to get medals (not a Mutley) but it really grips my when a medal is issued but you get cheated out of it, someone has -up again."

I can see the relevance of things like the MC and MM , i.e awards for valour above and beyond, but this obsession with gongs is out of place. In any case why is there a different medal for different ranks in some circumstances? Are the officer classes braver than the lower ranks or vice versa? Is an MC considered to be a higher award than a MM?
Why is the award when agreed so complex? Surely you were there or you were not and if there then everyone gets the same.

[Gainesy]

The MM/MC rank disparity was binned a few years back; all who qualify now get the MC.

[Mightycrewseven]

I will be presented my OSM with clasp on Tuesday 22 June. I had to 'apply' for it last year, when the DCI came out, but my application was rejected on the grounds of the qualifying period. I was flying in theatre (same fleet as you) from 1st November, therefore I was told I did not qualify. Second attempt failed too. Finally I wrote a letter to OC P1, at my unit, putting a pretty strong case together, detailing various operations and sent a photo copy of my log book entries. This, and a phone call every month to chase it up (desperate measures, I know!!!) meant that I, and three other ex-kipper fleet mates that are here, are being presented with the medal on Tuesday.

M7 :ok:

[Mad_Mark]

This is nothing to do with 'needing' the medal or being a 'Mutley'! I was simply interested as the subject came up recently on the Sqn. Many of us qualified for the medal and the Sqn put the paperwork in en-masse 7 months ago, yet not a soul has heard anything else about it.

Mad Mark!!! :mad:

[Biggus]

My approach is a simple one - if you have earned the medal then apply for it!

If for no other reason than because it is great to see Wg Cdrs and Gp Capts around with only their 'been in the military more than 5 years' chocolate medal and maybe a Falklands one, while all around them their men (and women) of every branch/trade/rank are walking around with a chest full of medals!! It keeps reminding the senior neddies that is us who are going away all the time doing the business, while they sit back at home polishing their careers and telling our families how 'supportive' they are being!!

[MrBernoulli]

Mightycrewseven

Glad to hear you managed to persuade the system that you actually qualified for the medal. There are many of us who were operating over Afghanistan for that 'war' who couldn't understand why the qualifying period only started in December, after we had been rotated home.

We have been told that there are some sssslllloooowwww moves afoot to make right the mistake but we have also been told not to hold our breath. £*****g insult if you ask me! And no-one is prepared to say what moves, however tardy, that are actually being made. Lots of ivory-tower idiots dragging their heels, I suspect, and hoping to move elsewhere before their glorious incompetence exposes them for what they are - NUMPTIES!!!!!!!

[Spotting Bad Guys]

Qualified on three separate dets in three distinct locations, and I'm STILL waiting.....!:mad:

SBG