Powerline Surveys

[Corporate Yank]

Anybody here doing this? What model helicopters are you using? Please contact me to compare notes. Thanks, CY

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*deep inhale* I LOVE the smell of jet-a in the morning..

[Thomas coupling]

I don't personally, but they use, mainly twin squirrels (AStar's)with FLIR camera's.

http://www.gograph.com/Images-7298/AnimatedGif/redstar.gif

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TC

[HollyCopter]

Don't know anyone who uses model helicopters - they all use real ones ;)

Seriously, though, I know of one company who uses Twin Squirrel and B206 for wire patrol, and also R22 for underground pipeline inspection (From above the ground, that is!).

[whatsarunway]

as355 in the uk seems to do the job nicely

jetrangers in ireland

[Lu Zuckerman]

To: Corporate Yank

One Florida utility uses a Hughes/MD (Don’t know which model) to both inspect and repair their high voltage power lines. In the repair mode they move sideways towards the highline with a man sitting on a side platform. He is wearing a special chain mail suit under his flight suit. He grounds (earths) the helicopter to the highline and usually there is a very large arc. With the helicopter attached to the highline the man gets off of the platform and onto the wire. He then shinnies himself up to where they had previously spotted a damaged insulator and the man then removes and replaces the damaged insulator. The process is then reversed and the man gets back on the platform and breaks the connection between the helicopter and the highline. Florida is known for Alligator wrestling and I think the guy on the wires is the same person that wrestles alligators on his off time.

A bit off the subject, in Scandinavia they use a Hughes/MD to clear the right of way for the utility by cutting down tree branches that come near the wires. No, not with the rotor blades. The have an external sling load that consists of several radial saws hung in a chain. I think they use a gas-powered engine for drive.

The helicopter sets up a line parallel to the highline and moves along that line and if any tree branches get in the way they are cut off. From what I could determine it was very effective.


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The Cat

[SPS]

As the thread has moved off you original UK
request see "Aeropower" which is found through my site. Fascinating what the Aussies get up to with a Heli and some bits of wire.....

I UK I have seen 206, twin and single sq.
and one company was using a Schwiezer 330
(Southern air had a contract I beleive)

Still, it is ages since I've been home.

Bet 'tis cold....Know its WET!

[SPS]

PS I have friend that does that work for Aeropower in Aus. I will suggest he joins this forum so that you can chew the fat.

[Corporate Yank]

The firm that does live line repair is AGROTORS, based in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, USA. They have done work for us (electric & gas utility), and it is fascinating to watch them. The guys with the saw rig sent us a video of their operation (trimming right-of-ways), and until you see them work (real eye opener), you would consider any discussion of same as mere bar-talk by deranged people. We are merging with the National Grid USA division of National Grid PLC (London), and I would like to contact anybody flying power line inspection for them to compare equipment specs and procedures. Thanks, CY

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*deep inhale* I LOVE the smell of jet-a in the morning..

[elpirata]

Hi

I do the R22 pipeline inspection mentioned by hollycopter.

I quite enjoy it,you have to be able to do 500 foot downwind engine off landings in the base check (OPC) which you could say are "interesting" and "quick" in an R22, which really does plummet during the auto especially as you are trying to get it round the corner, in a severe nose down attitude to keep the speed on.

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elpirata

[Corporate Yank]

We have a Bell 206L3 "Longranger", and have used it for our gas line as well as power line patrols (9500 miles transmission, a hell of a lot more sub-transmission and distribution) for the last 15 years. It has been a wonderful machine; never skipped a beat. There used to be a small heli flight school next door to our hangar that taught with R22's . To watch them do an auto to the taxiway out front, looked like the perfect "elevator to hell". I'll stick with my longranger, at least I might have time to blink my eyes a few times before I touch down. <g>. CY

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*deep inhale* I LOVE the smell of jet-a in the morning..

[This message has been edited by Corporate Yank (edited 22 December 2000).]

[WIREPILOT]

To Lu,

You are just a little off in your description of airborne liveline, some minor corrections as follows : At no time is the Helicopter ever " Grounded " while in contact with an energized conductor, this would result in the worlds largest flashcube. The correct term is " bonded " A bonding cable is attached from the helicopter to the conducter to equalize the conductive potential between the two, when this occurs the helicopter is now part of the conductor. As for the suits the are fabric blend, 70% nomex and 30 % stainless steel. When properly worn ( with the different articles bonded ) they actually place the person inside of a Farraday's cage with the current flowing around the wearer as oppossed to thru them. The pilot in a suit is actually in 2 cages, the suit , and the helicopter itself is a cage. Next thing is , that most insulators are changed with the line de-energized although it can be done hot, and the linemen are usually deposited on the tower for this operation
( cold end of the string ) and then a ladder is slung in with the rigging, hoists, new sting etc. Doing this hot can be tricky.
When a lineman is deposited on the conductor he is usually going to perform maint on the hot end of the string. Most likely the replacement of hardware such as a corona ring, cotter pin, stockbrige damper, etc. That outfit in Florida that I believe you are refering to, went Tango Uniform, but there are others. A side note. I was extremely intrigued by your posts on "Just Helicopters " about EMF generated by non bonded rotating components and the damage they cause. In the early days we trashed a H-500 rotorhead because the blades and head are insulated from each other via a fiberglass bushing on the vertical hinge pin.
Never wrestled any alligators but I know a few Lineman that I'D put my money on aginst a gator. Lasty I personally would not do wirework in anything but a 500...Cheers

[212man]

Anyone seen film of the French Puma (I know Puma's are French, I mean operated by the French national grid...) with the observer in the boot area? He has an observation bubble thing and lies on his belly facing down and aft. He also has a control of some sort and actually takes over for the precision work (10% authority I guess, a bit like the SAR crewmen in the S61s).

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Another day in paradise

[Lu Zuckerman]

To: Wirepilot

I’m sorry I misspoke about the connection between the helicopter and the conductor. I didn’t know the correct term to use since this is a multi national forum. If you have been following my posts about gyroscopic precession you would have noted that the arguments were based primarily on misinterpretation of the other guys terminology. I was torn between the terms earthed and grounded and never even considered bonding.

Regarding my other minor errors in the description I was so intrigued by what I was looking at on the TV screen I didn’t pay much attention to what the commentator was saying. He did say something about a Faraday cage and likened the man being on the conductor to a bird landing on a wire. Actually, he may have been talking about the helicopter in making the bird comparison.

I’m glad that at least one person has recognized my effort to educate regarding the non-bonding of rotorheads and the effects of it.


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The Cat

[Corporate Yank]

Wirepilot, I've never been inside a 500. What is there about one that you favor for this? (I mean for inspection, not repair). Also, a local fellow who operates a 500 told our company that he could set a 1700 pound utility pole for us, and that he could auto from 80 feet (0 IAS). Is all this true? If so, maybe we should look into purchasing one.-CY

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*deep inhale* I LOVE the smell of jet-a in the morning..

[Hughes500]

CY
Thought I would jump in here. 500D weighs about 1600lbs dry max auw with jetisonable load is 3550lbs so picking up 1700 lbs is possible just ! A 500F can possibly pick up more.The operator if he is regularly picking this up is thrashing the bollocks of his machines. As for auto from 80 ft 0 ias ask if he has tried it or better still demonstrate it ( suggest you sit on the airfield and watch ) if you really want a laugh ask him to demonstrate auto carrying 1700 lbs on his hook.

Seriously a 500 is very sound machine, very small,agile and imensly crash survivable, ask US Loach pilots.

Have a good one, by the way it has stopped raining here in the UK for the first time in months.

[WIREPILOT]

I prefer the 500 for inspection and patrol as well as repair/construction. First of all it flies well it tight quarters, down in the trees that you may find along right of ways,
also flies and hovers well regard less of wind azimuth. If you are doing a real inspection, you will find that most of your flying is in that mushy zone, just above ETL but not quite fully transitioned into fwd flight, It seems to be less prone to LTE, and SWP than most other single rotor helicopters and this is a big plus flying low, slow, and heavy in tight areas.

Another nice feature, as was pionted out is its crash suvivability. Unless you get a tree in the cockpit or roll down a hill you'll probably just walk away.

As far as the 1700 lb power pole, you may be able to pull it off, but not in a production environment. Unframed poles are a very low drag load which allows max possble lift to occur. But 1300-1400 pounders are about max.
On a standard day at sea level you usually hit max torque at about 3300 lbs, transients at about 3400 and the rotors start slowing at about 3500. ( you can get the empty weight of a " D " model under 1500lbs.)

As far as auto from 80 ft, with zero aispeed you will break the helicopter. You will be fine but the machine will be broken, period.
you will need a good twenty five KTS, off the nose and a nice flat surface between your toes to have any chance of pulling that one off. I've had a few of these occur,in actual working conditions and there is a big difference between getting all lined up over the spot going 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi, and rolling off the throttle,and having it get real quiet and heavy with your head out the door tring to get something done.

Lastly, from an operators standpoint you get more bang for you buck with a 500 for these missions than with any other make/model Any thing bigger is overkill, and any thing amaller just wont get the job done !
( i.e.R44 )

cheers , Wirepilot

[Go-Around]

As a fixed wing jock I have to maintain the 500ft at all times. What kind of minimum heights are there for pipline and powerline inspection. Does this count around built up areas?

[MBJ]

A while since I did any but for the low level lines I think we had 100ft from the line laterally and vertically. The lines were not patrolled from the air in congested areas.

[B Sousa]

Due to all the different types of wires, poles etc. The Military teaches helo drivers to Cross at the Poles. Mainly because the Wires themselves droop, but guy wires(which are hard to see) are usually tight. No Altitude restriction, just caution..

[MaxNg]

Wooden pole patrol required that the A/C be one and a half rotor spans laterally. It was also recommended that you keep possitive airspeed Idealy (40 kts)but this was difficult to maintain as 11 Kv patrols (single wooden lines) would follow a ring cct and would return you back to the sub/stn you recently left and resembled somthing of clover leaf pattern with each circuit having spurs going up to individual farm Houses, factories and such like services. 44Kv (doudle wooden poles) were relativly easier and would be flown at somwhere between 20-30 kts ground speed same latteral spacing.
Hope that this info helps http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/tongue.gif

[Ancient Pelican]

We flew a little differently, we did not do much distrubition, below 32.5Kv. 69 Kv was flow at 60mph, ten feet above the trees or highest obstacle and about 1/2 rotor span out from line, 138Kv at 80mph, 230Kv at 100mph and 345Kv at 120mph, the distance paramaters were still the same.

[MaxNg]

Ancient Pelican
Were you using any fancy gear ie: IR,thermal etc or just Mk1 eyeball?
I guess that you were looking for the same snags !! Flashovers, broken insulators sagging lines and overgrowth .
what aircraft were you using.

[Ancient Pelican]

Most of the patrols were done in a 206, there was some 105 work also. It was MK 1 eyeball. Yes, they were mostly routine maintenance patrols. There were "relay" patrols which were flown because the line "relayed" due to some unknow cause, storm, tree branches, sknunks in the substations ect. I think what I forgot to state was we carried an observer whose responsibility it was to do the inspecting, the pilot was just suppose to fly the helicopter and keep the observer in a position to observe. Of course being like most pilots,...we would look at the line also. But, mainly we just flew and let the observer do the observing. Great work if you can get it.

[MaxNg]

We sometimes got close and once whilst going down a very steep incline following the wires down to a sub/stn on a hot humid day pulling 100% TQ and still descending towards the sub/stn got very close but never ever that close.

"Live long and Prosper"

[zaplead]

Can anyone suggest names for companies involved in this type of work in UK?
Info gratefully received.....:D

[old heliman]

Try PLM Dollar at Inverness, Sterling at Norwich, Patriot at Cranfield and many other small AOC operators.

[Whirlygig]

PLM Dollar are now know as PDG Helicopters and also have a base in Cumbernauld and, I believe, operations in Ireland.

The British Helicopter Advisory Board handbook may also be able to help you - it will have addresses and contacts.

Cheers

Whirlygig

[Thomas coupling]

I heard on the grape vine that national grid are devolving their contract out to sub contractors. Anyone know about this.

[zaplead]

Thanks for the info folks, you've provided a few helpful lines of enquiry to follow up.
Best Wishes....Zap:D

[ppheli]

TC - so you're saying that National Grid are going to effectively cease operations of their 3xAS355? I'm not aware of them doing anything else with those aircraft than powerline surveying.

There are not many others that do powerline surveys - WPD Helicopter Unit is the obvious one that springs to mind. Pipeline surveys, well, you can add a few more that do that work - who flies the Esso route these days since Southern Air went under?

[Whirlygig]

ppheli,

I think it might be Sterling who do the Esso contract now.

Cheers

W

[2bart]

imagine a merger!!

[Johe02]

Just passed my CPL(H) and interested in getting some work flying power line inspections in the UK. Anybody got any pointers?

:ok:

[Heliport]

To be checked out to fly power line patrols, you have to pass a simple test. Here's a pic of Bob Garnhum, aka Canadian Rotorhead, demonstrating how easy it is.


http://aviationlaw.homestead.com/files/Lineman.jpg



If you want more info on the pad in the picture, click here. (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=99801&referrerid=30158)

[Whirlygig]

UK operators who do powerline and pipeline surveys have insurance requirements which state that the pilots should have at least 500 hours (in most cases). Additionally, depending on their client, full security checks may also need to be carried out.

Get a copy of the BHAB handbook which will give you a list the AOC operators.

Hope that helps.

Cheers

Whirlygig

[overpitched]

There is one main company in AUS that specialises in power line work. Aeropower, and they have a fleet of 500's. Their minimum is 2000 hrs. Their web site is well worth a look

http://www.aeropower.com.au/index2.htm

[Johe02]

Great picture. . . wouldn't mind giving it a go.

Know any companies in the UK that do that kind of stuff?

Thanks Whirlygig,

I've got a list of AOC's but I was hoping to narrow it down a bit.
I've got 400 hours so I'm hoping maybe thats enough. . .

[Camp Freddie]

hey johe,

not wanting to rain on your parade and all that but I think you are really going to struggle to do powerline with 400 hours, unless you are v.lucky.

I think you should be concentrating on VFR charter, or flight instruction (if you have an FI rating) to try to build your hours up a bit. I think even pipeline patrol would be hard to get.

the ops manual of the last onshore operator I worked for specified 1000 P1 desirable for all its commercial pilots, thats not to say you wont prove me wrong though.

good luck

[Johe02]

Hi Freddie,

Yeah, I think you're right but I gotta try. I've got an AFI but was hoping to get away from 'trial lessons' trying to kill me :)
I've got the chance of a few hours charter a week so I guess I'll try a bit harder down that route.

Thanks for the advice :ok:

[MaxNg]

Johe02

Like most people I got my break by being in the right place at the right time and that part is all down to luck, I happened to be freelancing (pleasure flying/occasional charter) for a company that had a powerline contract but unfortunatly the pilot lost his medical, I was checked out on friday and powerlining on monday (the observer was very surprised to see me as we knew each other, and he knew I was relativly low time) but to the credit of the observer he gave me a chance, we started on the 44kv (double wooden pole) lines as these ran in a ring main pattern from the sub station and back, and after a week of confidance building (his AND mine) we progresed on the 11kv lines ( single wooden pole) the ops manual stated "one and one half rotor spans offset and above the lines " the patrol would be flown at approximatly 40kts indicated and where possible into wind. We flew on average four hours per day and approximatly 350 hours per year for a little over three years, without incident, execpt for chasing and containing armed robbers that is, oh and just failing to become FOD to a Tuccano whilst sat at 50' agl surveying a flashover on a transformer at Brigg in Humberside, and many more.

I have since become an QHI (H), best fun you could ever have in a helicopter with a complete stranger, a North sea commander, 90% proceedural bordom with 10% of full on terror!!, but My best moments of flying to date is powerlining, I would like to give some credit to a Mr Keith Walker ( YEB obsever and Engineer) for not only being a very reliable obsever in every sense of the word but also for being a thoroughly profesional engineer making sure that if I approached any limitation and there were many, then he brought it to my attention. all that and CRM wasn't even thought of then.

[Johe02]

Cheers for that Max, it seems like a good way to get some good experience.

I thought about going for the north sea and have had a very nice letter from Bond saying they are going to contact me. . (yeah right) as they are recruiting Aug 2004.

As they say, 'it's not what you know. . . .'

:)

[misterbonkers]

These 206s that we see flying around doing aerial surveys here in UK. Out of interest does anyone know the hourly rates they are going out at? I'm guessing its contract stuff.

[ricksheli]

Done a fair bit of power line inspection in UK, not the big lines, the maze of lines that end up at farms etc. Used a B206, frightenned the hell out of horses and livestock etc etc, wanted to do it at 500ft agl with good stabalised camera system, but electricity company would never pay the extra. Felt the whole project was very damaging to the "fly neighbourly" campaign and gave the public a bad image of the professional helicopter industry. In remote area's I have no problem with low level power line inspections, but some of the work I was doing was just outside London! I know that a good camera would have done the job, plus the electricity company could have had a video back -up of the work carried out.