New Jets for Flybe?

[beauport potato man]

i've read on various forums that flybe will eventually be replacing their aging BAe 146 fleet - for aircraft that are better suited to their new european routes from SOU, EXT etc...

Does anyone know if this was just a rumour or is there a shred of truth in the Boeing/Airbus stories?

Surely now would be a good time to buy with the market still being depressed......?

Cheers,

BPM

[Torquelink]

I also heard that they were evaluating 146 replacements. I would have thought that, bearing in mind operations out of SOU and LCY, the ERJ170/190 family might be more interesting than A318/B736?

[ALLMCC]

Surely the EMB170/190 would be too small - rumour was that Flybe were seeking larger capacity replacements for the 146 - hence the rumours of A319/B737NG

[beauport potato man]

I think the EMB will be too small too, and not sure if they'd like to have another brand new type - bearing in mind the continued teething problems with the new Dash 8 400's.

I think the 146 must be at it's limit operating these longer european routes bearing in mind it's payload/fuel capacity and the fact that it's not RVSM.

Bring on the Airbus A319 i say, not that they're gonna ask me.....

BPM

[Lite]

I have heard that the airline is looking for a replacement aircraft type for the 90-110 seat BAe 146 aircraft, so surely the ERJ-195 might be in the running considering that flybe. is meant to be a regional airline.

However on the other hand if you look at FRONTEIR AIRLINES in the United States, they operate an A319 operation with smaller 50-seat regional jets on thinner routes.

Perhaps flybe. is simply following them with a 68 and 138 seat airline.

[MEFLYBE]

Lets clear this up!

flybe. has publicly stated that it is examining replacements for it's all-over-the-place 146 fleet.

There are 2 aircraft families in the running, the Airbus A319/320 and the Boeing 737-700/800, which has again been publicly stated by flybe. Word is the 737 is the front runner, and that the first aircraft will be in service by summer 2004, but not operated by BE crews, not to start with first anyway.

The Embraer 190/195 had originally been examined but it's entry-into service date was too far off and its capacity not sufficient. Also, after the teething probs with the Q400s, flybe. does NOT want another as-yet unproven aircraft in it's fleet.

Regards

Mike

[Oscar Duece]

If they get anything it will be down to who they can get finance off, more that what might be suitable. Or are the 737's mentioned a wet lease option to try a draw a buyer in.
With a 1% profit this year after 2 years of losses and an owner wanting to sell / cut his losses. I wouldn't get to carried away.

[cumulo-granite]

A reliable source only last week stated it was most likely to be the 737-700 with -800 style wings/winglets - a la BBJ but a pax version...:O

[Golf Charlie Charlie]

Are Flybe's sectors long enough to justify the benefit of winglets, given that there is also a small cost incurred through additional weight ?

[MerchantVenturer]

I presume that the 737s or 319/320s will replace the 146s with the Q 400s remaining in the fleet.

Some of Flybe's new routes would probably not be able to sustain
a larger aircraft than a Q 400.

[Whispering Giant]

Golf Charlie Charlie - Yes there would be benefit's for the use of winglet's if these a/c do replace the 146, it would mean that you could carry a full load of 145 pax's from the likes of SOU/BHD which both have performance limiting runway's and go to place like MJV/LCA/TFS/AGP/IBZ.

Merchant Venturer - Yes they would be a direct replacement for the 146 with the enhanced range and performance that they would offer - the q400's would remain as they are extreamly cost efficient on the shorter sectors eg BHX-EDI etc, where the cost is approximatly half of what it would be to use a larger a/c on these route's - also it would mean we could continue operation into LCY useing this a/c.

rgds

W.G

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Would there be a pilot retention issue if they went to a hugely popular type as the 737/319? Not having a go - just wondering if part of the plan would be to improve the T&C's with the new aircraft or would the basing options be enough to retain crew.

The Embraer option would seem to avoid that possible extra cost...

Cheers

WWW

[JobsaGoodun]

WWW

I think Flybe would have gone for the Embraer 195 12mths ago but they've seen that with the ability to fill the 146's during the summer months out of SOU that the extra capacity offered by the larger 737 or 319 is required.

The Embraer is a great aircraft and much more passenger friendly than the 146 with it's 2+2 seating layout.(I was fortunate to go on one of the 170 test flights). The 146 in a 3+3 layout is a little uncomfortable on longer flights.

It is very fair to say that going down the Embraer would ensure a greater retention of flight crews, however I think that Flybe know deep down that selection of the 737 NG or A319 will need to bring better T+C for operating crews equal to that of Easy or Ryanair.

Flybe may follow the route of other operators and re-bond crews who get a new type rating or they may require flight deck to pay for their new type rating a la Ryanair.

We wait and see but if they are going to start to compete with the other major low cost carriers then I am sure Flybe are not in a disillutioned state as to what needs to be done to retain experience and crews

[hapzim]

looks like boeing and airbus off the xmas shopping list. santa can only stretch to 2nd hand avro rj100's which will still under perform on the longer routes to the sun. solves the t&c issues for the crews.:suspect: :ouch:

[akerosid]

Many crews intending to leave have been told that 73Gs and 319s are being looked at; the prospect of warmed over 146s would not be at all welcome. Quite apart from that, how good a decision is it to re-equip a fleet with a type already out of production. The RJ100 will still need a new type rating, since it has an Efis cockpit. Ultimately, this decision will need to be made, so why not do it now?

Surely there must be lessors around with 319s and 73Gs to lease? From a personal point of view, having had the choice between 146s and real aircraft since BA moved its RJs to MAN last year, I haven't been with Flybe on JER-LGW since.

Getting RJs would not be a good move towards the future, particularly if Flybe wants to have a credible product that sets itself apart from other low cost carriers. There can't be much more depressing in flying than six abreast on 146s.

[KAT TOO]

Just can't see Flybe ending up with grown up jet kit(737/319) and (jobs a goodun) filling aircraft with seats at £1.00 won't make up the difference. I reckon that if you take all the costs including pilot retention you could run at least 12 170/190 for the price of 7 or 8 737/319's.
In airline line terms the delay in taking the 170 over current kit is no more than a couple of years and given the present uncertainties i would wait a while and consolidate what they have. As for the puff jet, well its fine for short sectors and the passenger recation is less adverse than any turboprop or 145/135 sewerpipe.

[carlos vandango]

aeroskid, you don't need a new type rating to fly an Avro RJ. Flybe already have several EFIS 146's.

[Smokie]

Their 146's will be around for the forseeable future, 5 years ish, so don't hold your breath's for any quick 737/A319/320 type ratings.

Besides there isn't the money to finance any of the above ventures just yet.


And as for Pilot retention issues ? Well they're still haemoraging crews to the land of Orange.

Q400s into LCY...... that'll be good with a howling N/S X-wind !!
As currently their into wind landings on longer runways are nothing to be proud of.:*





From a very, very Dark plac.....................................................

[CaptAirProx]

Not suggesting LCY is gonna be easy but funnily any Dash driver will tell you they can make prettier landings in a crosswind! Wind down the slot, its a pain in the a**e.

[Smokie]

I'm curious now, so why is that then?

And you're absolutely right about it being a pain in the rectum.
Keep thinking war has broken out.