NOW AIRLINES-A Great Beginning

[FLYMATE]

With the AOC soon to be awarded, this would be a nice place to celebrate the addition of a new airline to the British Aviation World. A place where people can comment constructively on their ideas and observations. All the best to all who have undertaken this journey. As the people at Now have said, we aim not to compromise on quality, and we aim to be a major player in the aviation industry.

[AIRWAY]

I can only wish all the best for the future of this new airline :ok:

[Powerjet1]

Glad to read on the other thread(now closed) that the proving flight on Monday went well and the AOC is 'close' to be approved. From this, can we assume that more positive details or announcements re Now are only a matter of 'days away' from being put in the public domain ?.

Good luck to everyone one at Now, I really hope it works. Ten out of ten for persistance.

[bigredbin]

Well done to all at NOW for all the hard work. and to JMC-man have you finished your hat yet:O

[jmc-man]

Eat my Hat? Now why on earth should I do that?

I'm glad the proving flight went well, but , as I said before they have some good guys in the flight ops end.

But there's still no AOC, probably because there's still no aircraft. Presumably one will come along shortly.

There still no routes or reservation system, and time is marching on for getting sales up and running for Christmas.

And then's there's the ongoing issue of a ticket pricing which won't work.

SO, I'll be happy to eat as many hats as you like when NOW post a profit ( any profit). Up until then, my misgivings remain, and I'll air them. No doubt many ( or some) will disagree, but the proof of the pudding etc etc......

Wonder what the easyJet reaction will be. I bet it will be agressive, as will the RYR reaction if any of the routes are shared .

[bacardi walla]

jmc-man we can always rely on you to be negative. There are 2 aircraft currently undergoing maintenance and repainting. The res system is about to be launched but not from the current web site. One thing you are right about though is that RYR will be aggressive - it's what they do best because they are an aggresive arrogant bunch..... Why do we have to wait for NOW to post a profit for you to start munching on your hat? Get started.

[tailscrape]

bacardi walla

I would wait before you crow too loudly. Many airlines start and fail.... let's all hope (as jmc man does really) that NOW are not another statistic in that column.

[bacardi walla]

tailscrape point taken but it would be nice for a change if jmc-man said something positive. Wouldn't you agree ? I for one wish all at NOW the very best. It's time that EZY and RYR had some competition on their doorstep. They don't own STN or LTN but you would think they do......be nice to see another airline take them on and (maybe) win on certain routes :rolleyes:

[ALLMCC]

I do hope NOW is a successful venture in spite of the malicious put downs by other loco afficionados - hopefully NOW will pick sensible destinations & not anywhere where there is an airstrip or a hole in the hedge the way Easyjet & Ryanair do - the corporate greed of these two is only surpassed by their hatred of each other and anyone who DARES to try to compete with them!

[saltrock surfer]

Great news!

Also glad to see this thread open as it seemed a shame for Hamrah to close the other without letting jmc man have the last word.

As for an aggressive reaction from easyjet, its the only way the know how to behave so no surprises there.

Can't forget the perpetual orange bleating that went on from orangeland over big bad BA trying to beat up little easyjet - wonder of they still share the same view about the value of competition now.

Nice people eh?

[CPT4C]

I wish NOW all the best and hope they do well, however with the limited finance they have available they will not be able to compete with easyJet or Monarch out of Luton. Remember when easyJet started Stelios had 20 million pounds to play with to keep the airline running for the first couple of years.With the fixed pricing structure of NOW it will be very easy for airlines to undercut them and run their routes at a loss for a short time in order to put NOW out of business.
Too many have tried and failed AB airlines, Debonair to name a couple.

[bacardi walla]

Maybe the fixed pricing NOW AIRLINES have adopted will work depending on how low the fixed prices are? Maybe they have changed their mind though on fixed prices :rolleyes:

Debonair only failed because it was trying to be a low cost airline with frills, like free catering, limosines, frequent flyer programs. It should have stuck to the ACMI side of the business plan and moved away from scheduled "low cost". It might have turned itself into another Brit World....... Sorry, I digress :O

[Lite]

I do wish Now Airlines every success also, however as one member of the board has already stated how is Now going to be any different from easyJet with regards to the airline's actual product.

Besides easyJet sticking to the yield management philosophy and Now offering a fixed fare rate how will the airline's actual service differentiate Now from the existing competition?

Will the airline use its strength as a "second generation carrier" to launch flights like Go did with a more professional onboard service like Go promised in the early days with "real" cafetiere coffee or all leather seating?

Just a question

[FLYMATE]

On board service will include, pre-allocated seating, all the usual snacks, proper cafetiere coffee, Cadbury's hot chocolate and leather seats, even the hatracks will have the seat numbers "embossed" in a special font. There will be Now representatives at airports to help when things go wrong, rather than leaving people dumped. Now will only fly to main airports, not airfields miles from anywhere.So the attention to detail is greatly better than that even of Go. In the future, once the reservation system allows, you will even be able to order an inflight meal to eat, and again in the future Now will offer a two class onboard service. There are discussions of offering free in flight entertainment.These developments will of course be offered once the main on board service is in place and if need be "tweeked".
So that is why they are "second generation", they've taken the best of low cost and dumped the worst.

[bacardi walla]

just a question then....is the first flight 11th December or not ? http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/jpshakehead.gif

[jumpseater]

ALLMCC perhaps you'd like to explain your following,

'sensible destinations & not anywhere where there is an airstrip or a hole in the hedge the way Easyjet '

Precisely which Airports do easyJet operate to that are holes in the hedge?, and are not sensible destinations?

[Golf Charlie Charlie]

There does seem to be a blurring in understandings sometimes of the destination policies between easyJet and Ryanair. As the previous poster implies, easyJet's approach has been to fly to mainstream destinations, almost all (if not all) major airports - the principal ones for the city concerned. This is because, I think, easyJet is trying to cater to both the leisure market and a small segment of the business market. Ryanair, on the other hand, seems to cater entirely to the leisure, if not the 'backpack', market - and fair enough, they have been good at this. But Now will have a tough fight against easyJet at LTN, it seems to me, though I wish them well.

[getoverit]

I would like to think that NOW will be success - BUT like so many others I do wonder whether their pricing system will bring in enough of a profit. And all this talk of free IFE, two class cabins etc is too far removed from the whole idea of 'low cost'. As we all know, the likes of Go, easyJet and Ryanair are all based on the low-cost model Southwest. Their success is down to keen pricing and high frequency. And the point that most people on here seem to overlook is that 'low fares' doesnt mean 'low cost' - its all about keeping overheads to a minimum and maintaining a low cost-base. For example, Buzz were marketed as low-cost, but were clearly nothing of the sort. They may have offered low fares, but didnt have a low cost-base and therefore never saw a profit. At the moment the market belongs to Ryanair and easyJet and I cant see either of them giving the likes of NOW much of a look in. A brave attempt - I wish them well.

[Buster the Bear]

Why will Now have a tough fight against easyJet?

Please spill the beans, both sets of senior managers will know each others rough plans for the next 6 months, simply due to the application for, and availability of slots to land at major airport destinations.


I do however think, that once Now announce their destinations and ones ability to book flights on-line, easy will reveal their expansion plans from Luton for next year, maybe the Harps will follow? One could argue that these carriers could then apply spoiling tactics?

Good luck to Now from Buster.

[Hamrah]

Saltrock Surfer,

My apologies for closing the thread, I felt the title of the thread was past it's sell by date with the proving flight out of the way. I'll re-open it if required.

With some good friends in NOW, I also wanted the closing post to be positive.

H

[saltrock surfer]

No probs H.

Wish NOW well and can't see easyjet being in great shape to fight them off especially with their own problems seemingly unsolved and mega loads of Airbuses about to fall upon them. As someone above said lowcost is about keeping overheads down and easyjet have apparently just about twice as many staff as Ryans for the roughly the same size of fleet. Seem to recall they made a large loss last winter.

After all the orange bleating towards BA back in the late 80's it will be interesting to see how they view start up competition themselves now - their view used to be that competition was great and healthy and we must have it. Right now I think their scared out of their wits that their staff will b*gg*r off to NOW not to mention what their pax might do if they have choice

[Ttree Ttrimmer]

It was about time the previous thread was closed. Negative title and negative postings are not what Now is about. It's not in the company culture.

Some very positive words coming out of Halcyon House about our future. Lets hope the hard work over the last months has paid off with an approved AOC very soon. From all reports a very successful proving flight.

JMC Man - Do we need to supply our own glasses for the champers or are you going to send them along too?

:ok:

[Powerjet1]

Can someone just clarify how long it takes to get the AOC, assuming all relevent 'items' have been made available to the CAA. My understanding is that all the necessary crews have been recruited for the launch and the marketing campaign is just waiting for the 'button to be hit'. Bookings are due to start in November but this cannot happen until all appropriate licences have been obtained from the CAA.

Once again, good luck to everyone at Now. Go for it.

[bacardi walla]

FLYMATE may I ask if my question of 29th will be answered ? :ok:

[Ttree Ttrimmer]

Bacardi Walla - I think you'll find that is one of those closely guarded commercial secrets that will get published when the "button is pressed".

I am expecting news of it within the week.

[trainer too 2]

So the routes are identified, AOC application is in and an experienced senior management team is on hands... sounds like an advert in Flight this week for an airline looking for funding...

Or am I becoming to negative... :rolleyes:

[bacardi walla]

Ttree Ttrimmer thanks because I was (am) wondering whether now that the proving flight is over, there may be something else major holding things back. I'm curious, I want them to succeed and hopefully put some orange and blue noses out ;)

[FLYMATE]

Let's just say that everyone should wait until Monday for any more news regarding launches. I have a few favourites I would like to see as destinations, but I haven't a clue as to which have been selected to launch with.

[Tenminutes]

FLYMATE ....and a first flight in January !!:oh:

[mothtoaflame]

The very best of luck and success to all at NOW:ok:

Does anyone know who was advertising in Flight for investment?
I can't imagine it was the folks at NOW:hmm:

[Tenminutes]

I'd say the clowns at Cougar/Globespan are looking for money :mad:

[bigredbin]

Let's just say that everyone should wait until Monday for any more news regarding launches

well...........:O

[Tenminutes]

Rumour has it that there's no rumour but no news could mean bad news !! FLYMATE has gone rather quiet :O
My money is still on no launch before January 04....

[Thunor]

Sorry to say my money is with yours Tenminutes!

I genuinely wish NOW all the very best but sadly I feel very sorry for those who have given up existing jobs and incurred other expenses in order to join this outfit who already (RUMOUR has it!) at this initial stage cannot honour their initial promises to these loyal and faithful supporters........!

Good Luck to all!

[tailscrape]

The latest odds are these ( you can PM me if you want to take me up on my bookmaking):

All prices relate to COMMERCIAL FLIGHTS with FARE PAYING PASSENGERS, as confirmed by Luton Airport Management.

5/1 start first flight before 1st January 2004

3/1 start first flight before 14th January 2004

5/2 start first flight before 21st January 2004

2/1 start first flight before 31st January 2004

Evens start first flight before 14th February 2004

3/5 start first flight before 28th February 2004

1/3 start before 31st March 2004

1/5 They do not get airborne at all before 30th April 2004

All enquiries willingly discussed, and I will give 20% of any bookmaking PROFITS to the PPRUNE fund for cadet development!!

Good luck!
:p :p :p

[bacardi walla]

why don't we ask someone from EZY to give us their ideas. Afterall, it seems as though it's them that's behind the stalling....whats up Stelios, frightened of some competition :p

[jmc-man]

Bacardi Walla, Flymate et al..

No we WON'T ask easyJet, or Ryanair or Luton AIrport.

We'll ask the guys who wrote a great big banner statement on a website about KEEPING PROMISES.

Do you really think, with easyJet the size it is , that the give a tuppenny stuff about a Psedo Airline that has so far delivered on NONE of it's deadlines or promises. Get a grip.

I have some friends who have joined NOW. For their sakes, I hope they get something together. I still say the senior team has very littel credibility or experience...and all this messing around with delayed start dates, no route network, no aircraft, and obvious lack of finance only confirm my worst fears.

If they have any sense they'll put the start-up back to MAY next year, and use the intervening time take the opportunity to GET THEIR ACT TOGETHER!


:* :mad: :suspect:

[saltrock surfer]

Can't understand any of this. Why such angst? Does jmc-man ask other airlines to declare their commercial startegy on PPRUNE - er no! So why does he think NOW would want to do that.

From what I hear the AOC process went well and I think you'll find that everyone in NOW is confident of what they're doing.

Thunor - misinformed garbage.

When you get over the rather ridiculous idea that airlines will declare their commercial intent on PPRUNE then you might be able to form a more balanced view.

Anyway jmc-man - why the angst? Whats eating you?

(PS: barcadi walla seems clued up - if you bother to look into it, I think you'll find that Easyjet are more than a little worried)

[jmc-man]

Saltrock Surfer

Commercial Strategy...don't make me laugh.

The NOW Promises ....Number 6... We promise to keep all our promises.

They havn't kept a single one....and thats the nub of the problem. Credibility.

Even those on the inside, Flymate etc, give indications that things will happen and, guess what....nothing happens.

No AOC then? So if the proving flight went well, why the delay. The CAA can usually issue an AOC within 48 hours of a proving flight. I know one that was issued the same day. But is there an AOC.... heck no.

Program on sale by 29th...anyone remember reading that one?

It's now far too late for the Christmas market, unless NOW have very deep pockets for a MAJOR advertising campaign, including television. As they seem unable to get an aircraft delivered, don't think there's much chance of that.

Angst...nah.....just voicing all the stuff I hear around the industry...you need to get real guys, or you're gonna fall at the first hurdle.

[Powerjet1]

Can anyone confirm if the two purported 737s destined for Now actually reached SEN for respray etc or are they still in bits at STN?.

[Tenminutes]

Actually, both 737's are at STN and are being held up by - EZY. Think bacardi walla is right to ask the question "will anyone from EZY care to comment" :confused: It seems this could well be the only reason why the AOC has not been issued. No aircraft, no AOC :uhoh:

[saltrock surfer]

jmc-man - seems that tenminutes has beaten you to it.

Why jmc-man, should NOW share the information with you on PPRUNE. What for?

[mudcity]

Firstly I must point out that I hope NOW succeed -the more jobs for all airline staff the better.....but I think JMC MAN raises some good points even if he may have his own agenda ?
NOW have been promising to launch for the last six months and still no sign of any information forthcoming which makes us on the outside start to question whether they will ever start,I appreciate things may be tough but don't start spouting off about how great NOW is when not one passenger ticket has been sold.
I also doubt the wisdom of launching a new airline into the winter market when traditionally all airlines make a loss,if things are delayed why not wait until the spring/easter market ?
All the vitriol aimed at easyjet ignores the fact that Monarch may well be NOW's biggest competitor as they are allegedly about to launch a series of new destinations ex LTN and their crown service may attract just the type of passengers that NOW are aiming for....we shall see.?

[jmc-man]

Saltrock,

I don't want the information shared with me on PPRuNe. I want the information shared with the world so that they can show they are serious. It's all, as I said before, about credibility.

Just spoken to a mate in a certain large leasing company, who hjas confirmed that it is THEM ( the lease company) who are holding up the aircraft. He wouldn't confirm where the two aircraft in question are going though.

[Tenminutes]

....and the leasing company won't/can't release the aircraft because EZY are not playing ball. Lets not get into a slagging match here, we all want NOW to work as it's high time for EZY/RYR to have at least a little competition.

[Flightrider]

My contribution to this thread is purely and simply a factual one and not intended to take sides in what appears to be an increasingly defined debate with JMC-Man on one side and others opposing.

According to Airfax Jet Transport listing published on 3 November, lessor Orix is offering 737-300s 24546, 24547 and 24678 available for lease in November 2003 (two aircraft) and March 2004 (one aircraft). 24546 is currently G-IGOC, 24547 is G-IGOE and 24678 is G-IGOA.

I seem to recall from further back in the other Now thread that the aircraft destined for Now were exactly these aircraft.

If these are the Now aircraft (and I suppose there are other 737-300s around that they could acquire instead) then why is the lessor offering them on the open market for lease? The fact that they are doing so also makes the easyJet conspiracy theories rather implausible; if the lessor is offering the aircraft for immediate lease then logically it must have taken redelivery of them from easyJet.

[Tenminutes]

In that case, maybe NOW have no cash - but then, that can't be right can it ? How upto date is the leasing company's information? I had heard that the mentioned aircraft above were being re-registered into the G-NOWA, B, C etc etc series....

[Thunor]

saltrock surfer ,

Perhaps you would care to enlighten me (and other concerned/interested ppruners) exactly what parts of my previous perfectly polite (unlike yours!) post was either "misinformed" or "garbage"?

I can assure you that I am EXTREMELY well-informed (otherwise I would not have posted in the first place! If you care to check you will see how rarely and infrequently I do "contribute"!)

When you get over the rather ridiculous idea that airlines will declare their commercial intent on PPRUNE then you might be able to form a more balanced view

??????

Er when did I ever suggest this "ridiculous idea" ????

I can assure you I have a perfectly "balanced view" of this matter! As it happens I have a vested interest in the success of NOW but that interest doesn't stop me from facing REALITY and facing FACTS!!!

My point was and is the good people who have already given up perfectly good jobs/careers/businesses and incurred considerable expenses (travelling/accommodation/food/drink/clothing to mention but a few....) on the strength of "promises" made to them by NOW which NOW cannot fulfill! i.e. "We don't actually want you NOW - can you come back in January/February 2004?" AND that is after being "strung along" by NOW month after month after month....That is a FACT saltrock surfer and NOT "misinformed garbage" so may I respectfully ask that you are a little more careful with your choice and use of words/language as you can - AND HAVE - cause great offence!

[FLYMATE]

Let's all calm down a bit here, yes it is disappointing that NOW will now not be in the air until February but as I have been observing all along they are not prepared to rush to a launch until they are ready. If they had launched and had not had the correct things in place, they would have been a spectacular flop. True, that information from them has been scarce, but we have to understand that there are people out there ready to strangle this venture at the beginning, hence the little or no information released to interested parties.

There will be no doubt be greatly disappointed people out there who have disrupted their lives to join NOW at contract stage and others who can absorb the delay for a few months more. Those who are loyal and absorb the delay are the ones who are prepared to hold their nerve, and after a few years they may well be very, very, very well off with the share options offered to them in the delayed launch.

They could so easily have just said to these people to "go away" until February, or worse still, given everyone 30 days notice as stated in their contracts and rehired closer to launch, but they have decided to be positive with this "down time" and decided to offer all who keep the faith, very attractive share options.

Seems to me each delay and decision is made with a view to success for the future, and if they are as careful in their future expansion plans as they are now, I see them being a very big success with a very healthy share price. So we watch and wait. Again, I wish NOW well.

[Thunor]

Nice SENSIBLE post FLYMATE !

I wish you and everyone at NOW all the best! I sincerely hope it all works out!

Good Luck!

[jmc-man]

Err....do we understand that there has been another delay then? Nothing on the website.

Judging from the posts, my friends are going to have some difficult choices. Their ability to live and feed their families over the next few months will be totally dependent on their belief in something coming good, and their " share options" being worth something sometime in the future. It's an invidious position to be in.

February would certainly be a better time to launch than December.

No doubt this will all be blamed on Ryanair, easyJet or jmc-man.

[saltrock surfer]

thunor - you're a soft skinned target - don't get so tetchy.

Most of my comments were directed at jmc-man and having re-read them I don't think they were rude.

you're remark was that NOW have failed to keep their word/commitment to people. You just wrote "We don't actually want you NOW - can you come back in January/February 2004?" AND that is after being "strung along" by NOW month after month after month...."

That I'm afraid is incorrect and rubbish and in a light-hearted tone not uncommon to these pages might be referred to as misinformed garbage. If I've understood it correctly, and if you are 'very well informed' you will know, that despite the aircraft delay everyone has the option to join on their pre-arranged date with full pay with other options available if they choose. Please explain what the snag is with that.

Anyone who is involved will be informed and therefore will know that the only issue holdign them back is the delay in the aircraft delivery and the work involved to get them from a standard apparently acceptable to the previous operator up to a standard acceptable to the guys at NOW. Full marks to NOW for insisting on doing things right (I think that was one of their promises jmc-man)

The bit that still puzzles me is the vitriol that has been caused in some quarters by some guys just trying to get a new carrier off the ground which should be good news to all of us pilots. Why should NOW brief their progress blow by blow on PPRUNE. Do easyjet for example tell us their plans for Airbus bases in advance or does Astraeus tell us how their business is going on PPRUNE. No to both questions so why do jmc-man and a few others somehow think that PPRUNE readers have a overwhelming right to such commercial info from NOW???????????

Whats the problem?

Luv, salty

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Tenminutes - you said it's high time for EZY/RYR to have at least a little competition.

Umm, Jet2, BMIBaby, Britannia Lite in the offing as well as the likes of BMI and BA and GB offering sub £60rtns to many European cities.

Competition is horrendous for every shorthaul airline at the moment and has been for some years now. Its good for the customer and ultimately for the industry. So more power to Now's elbow.

To characterize EZY as being either scared or obstructive is a trifle simplistic.

Cheers,

WWW

[25minutes]

I like the one about the delay being all about finding the state of the aircraft unacceptable! These are OLD aircraft, that have been thrashed and then some, so old for a fleet as young as the orange one,that they did,nt even waste paint on them! Get real, if NOW had any serious wedge to play with they would have run a mile from these frames.

[FLYMATE]

Indeed, anyone who wishes to start their contract on time may do so, so to think that people have been fobbed off until February is untrue, the cynics get carried away with their inventive thoughts there. It must be either that they wish to see hundreds of people down the Job Centre or accepting careers with the masses at the main competitors. We see airlines all the time offering deals to staff to take some free time off, to take up-paid leave etc, so what is the difference here?

At many US companies, we see the harsher way of dealing with "down-time", 100s of thousands laid off at American and United Airlines. This is not the case with NOW. The last thing NOW want to do is deal with people as numbers on the balance sheet. NOW recognises that their people ARE the airline and so wish to treat the "down-time" sensibly and with a view to future staff loyalty.

I find it truly puzzling how fellow aviation colleagues wish to see an airline fail. Is it blind loyalty to their present airline? I wonder how their current employers would feel if they could see how these cynics wish fellow colleagues failure. How destructive these cynics are.

Many on here are supportive of a new venture, I am glad though that I will not be in contact on a day to day basis with those cynics. They seem to have a "give in to circumstances" mentality. Would their NITS briefing go, "No time to do anything, we're all going to die, lay down and give up, we can't do anything, prepare to crash, enjoy heaven".

I plan to be optimistic about the situation, it is obviously this trait in me that has made me successful in life, and a trait they obviously saw in me at interview stage. Once again, I wish NOW well.

[Powerjet1]

As Jmc-Man has said, there will be some difficult decisions to be made by those staying loyal to Now for at least another three months. As stated previously, I for one one, wish Now and its employees every success for the future, but one should not forget that Now was 'launched' in March this year, and whilst Feb/March 2004 would obviously be a better time to get Now 'in the air', continued delays will mean a year has elapsed. Therefore. one can't help feeling somewhat sceptical even about a Feb start date, or will that get moved to April/May, when all you have to go on is what has happened to date. Are existing/new staff prepared to wait and maybe even take the gamble?

Also, there seems to be much made of the easy/go aircraft that Now are apparently intending to utilise. On reflection. perhaps Now did not make the right decision when trying to source aircraft from easy and there has been much discussion, rightly or wrongly, as to the reasons why. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the aviation market was 'awash' with 737s for lease etc, so why do Now not look elsewhere for their aircraft. Perhaps the deal they had was 'too good to be turned down' or maybe, perhaps, there is another underlying problem preventing them from doing so.

[bacardi walla]

Bad move indeed to approach a leasing company that is currently dealing with EZY. Anyway, there are loads of 733's out on the market, but how much does it cost to get them upto UK CAA standard ?:rolleyes:

[CPT4C]

To blame easyJet is rubbish if NOW were going to be a serious player in the low cost world they would have enough cash to source some 733's from somewhere else instead of relying on a couple of old crates from easyjet.

[bacardi walla]

CPT4C exactly my point. I wonder if any of the ex EZY/GO crews suggested they approach the leasing company? Anyhow, the main issue is not what's happening now but what will happen in 1, 2, or 3 months time. Who knows (apart from jmc-man ) of course :O

[jmc-man]

In case some of you are not aware of where the lease market is at.......

The three ex GO aircraft were signed up back in 1998. At that stage the lease rates were between $195K to $220 per month, presumably for 5 years. When EZY took over GO they would have had to take the over the leases as agreed. Now, assuming they were 5 year leases, EZY would have extended them for 6 months to take them to the end of a Summer, rather than have them expire at the beginning of a summer.This extension would have been at a discounted rate.

The current market rate is between $100K and $130K for aircraft of that vintage...and there are a few available. It would have been in the interests of the lease company to delay the return of these aircraft, as plainly they were getting a much better lease rate. The delay would centre around "return conditions", as defined by the original lease rate. EZY, on the other hand, would have to pay the lease rates until such time as the aircraft were met the return conditions , which could ( at the lease rates mentioned above) be a very expensive excercise.

Just a thought....should the title of this thread be changed again ? :confused:




p.s. Just nicked a copy of the Airfax document mentioned above. Looks like there are 39 737-300's available in the market at the moment.

[bacardi walla]

.....maybe use the original thread name NOW or NEVER http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/ban.gif

[Ttree Ttrimmer]

25Minutes It was expected that the aircraft had to go into major maintenance before operations with Now but EZY was purposely obstructive in delaying the return of the aircraft and not painting them. This was calculated and the intention was to disrupt the launch of a perceived contender. There is no doubt more to the story but malice is involved and they are desperate to find out what Now is up to so they can disrupt it as much as possible.

Powerjet1 I understand the deal was too good to refuse but on hindsight the choice to take it was a bad choice. The COO admitted this recently.

I think we are lucky to be offered thechoices that we have. As previously mentioned, not many companies would do the same, especially in our industry. If the airline is as successful as forecast those that are willing could come out very well in the long run.

The lack of information on the web site is a pity but as so few people outside aviation circles are aware it is there anyway, I don't see this is a big deal. The big deal would be if people booked seats that couldn't be honoured. What better way to scare people away from the start when brand loyalty is exactly what any airline longs for. I seem to remember EZY had a particularly bad name when it started for cancelling flights at the last minute and leaving passengers stranded. I just hope that when seats do go on sale, everyone knows about it and the deals are such that people fly with us to experience the difference.

As for the difference, service is the key. Now is not going to be cheap but value for money. The fares will be low but you won't feel like that when using the product. There will be a representative at all destinations to answer any questions and to deal with any problems that may arise. This means that information will flow about any delays or changes that the customer is interested and should something not be right (baggage not showing up/not even allocated a belt as happens regularly to EZY) there will be someone there to put a shiny shoe up someones elses behind and make it happen. On board, presentation is important with smart and classy interiors with leather seats, modern colour schemes and professional looking crew (they don't just look the part either). None of the jeans and t-shirt brigade. Quality food and beverage will be served with a smile. This is what EZY are scared of IMHO as the planned routes of Now do not clash with those of EZY.

Maybe one of our journo friends should write a story highlighting the similarities concerning Now being belittled by an established airline that considers itself to be a competitior when in realism this is not the case.

[FLYMATE]

Well, it certainly has gone quiet on here. Anyway, hopefully now the dust has settled we will get a nice input of opinions here, and learn other's ideas on the subject...

[jmc-man]

..except mine, of course, Flymate.

So here's a question for you, and your "contract". Can You afford to wait until February? Do you feel NOW have been absolutely honest with you by offering a contract and then delaying it? Has your confidence in NOW's senior management team ( nice people as they may be) been dented by their inability to meet their "promises" to their staff.

Your comments are invited.

[saltrock surfer]

NOW NOW jmc-man - why are you so willing to stick the knife in to NOW because if you are as well informed as you say you are you must know that your last post is misleading.

So who exactly has to wait till February?????

From our briefing last week yep its true the aircraft are late from the hangar and SOME training is being delayed as a result but not all. Whilst many airlines would have then turned round and said to the crews that their start dates were delayed the managers at NOW haven't done that - they've made it quite clear that any one with a committed start date already can join on that date on full pay even if there training is delayed a bit.

Didn't you know that or were you deliberatly trying to cause problems for them and why would you when they've actually done the decent thing - perhaps your assumption was based on what would have gone on in your own company.

Seems that NOW are already keeping there committment to be different to others

[jmc-man]

Certainly being different...can't argue with that. Most if not all other start up airlines make committments to a start date...and keep them.

Exceptions being...lets have a look....FreshAer.....Blue Fox....Mama Air....to name a few.

Ok, so Saltrock...are you telling us that no-one who had a contract to start with NOW has had their contract start date deferred against their wishes...and that everyone currently working for NOW has been on salary since their contract start date.

I don't want to mention names here, so feel free to answer the above question carefully.

As regards Share Options, well thats a case of " Jam Tomorrow". It doesn't put food on the table.

Remember the important word CREDIBILITY

[saltrock surfer]

Yep I don't know of any pilot that has had his start deferred against his wishes and the boss went out of his way to state that everyone could join when they'd planned to do so if THEY wished. The people I met were all upbeat.

So who has been told that they have to wait till February????

Why are you so keen to put the knife in to NOW - the company seems to be doing the honest thing (a rare commodity in our industry). Throughout the whole saga of NOW jmc-man you've appeared to have an axe to grind yet you won't tell any one what it is

[jmc-man]

Err...Saltrock...who mentionmed the word pilots? I believe FLYMATE is Cabin crew, unless I misunderstood an earlier post.

I have no axe to grind. I just feel I'm balancing the unbridled enthusiasm of recent NOW converts with an occasional dose of harsh reality.

I would just remind you that this thread had (happily or otherwise) moved to page 2, before Flymate dragged it back up again, looking for
a nice input of opinions here, and learn other's ideas on the subject...

He asked for opinions and ideas...he got them.

[FLYMATE]

jmc-man, I am not going to tell you of my decisions. Why should I. My decision is between myself and the management. I can say here that I am in the position to defer to February. Whether I am cabin crew, pilot, ops staff or whatever is neither here or there. You seem to want to know everything about me and the internal movements of NOW. If you had wanted to be "in the know" you should have joined NOW.

I personally think your negative comments are due to you having been turned down by them for employment. But there again that is my formed view by the cynical comments you make. You mention in the same breath Mama Air, Fresh Air, Blue Fox, don't even think NOW falls into that category, NOW WILL happen, we just have to wait for the incompetent fools who don't know how to return an aircraft back to the leasing company to get their act together and return them back in a satisfactory condition. God knows that easyJet have done to the poor ex GO aircraft to make them take so long to be returned.

You always seem to have a dig at me, this is not the forum for that. As I stated when I started the thread, I invited constructive comments, not comments like yours that simply have no justification on the facts. Many of your facts are wrong. So unless you have FACTS, please refrain from speculating.

[tailscrape]

flymate

I dont think jmc man is far from the truth. What he says, you do not like because it affects you.

jmc man has been spot on about everything thus far. YOu have a contract that is at best flimsy paper with no substance. You say NOW will happen, I hope it does...but even you with your blinkers on must admit that it does not look good does it?

:yuk: :confused: :yuk:

[jmc-man]

Flymate, grow up. I never had a dig at you. You asked for comments and opinions, you didn't specify that you only wanted comments that agreed with your view point.

Shall we just review a couple of FACTS then, as of today.....

NOW has no AOC

NOW has no reservation system

NOW has no passengers

NOW has no aircraft

NOW promised to start last July

These are all FACTS. It is therefore in exactly the same position that the three operations I mentioned above were in.

NOW may be on the track for an AOC. It may even have plans for a reservation system...it certainly has no aircraft confirmed , hence the reason why the lease company is still offering them.

FLymate, I didn't ask you what you were doing with your contract, I don't care to be honest. I just wanted to get confirmation that NO-ONE who was due to start with NOW, in ANY capacity , has had theire start date DEFERRED AGAINST THEIR WISHES !.

It seemed like a straight forward question, and one which will reflect the true state of play within NOW.

Somehow, I don't expect to get a straight answer.

[AGPbabe]

I am so glad you all know so much about Now and how great they, being a meer employee you all seem to know much more than I/We do. Please post more info it would be such a help to US

[Thunor]

FLYMATE , Just wondering if you are still so "positive and upbeat" about NOW?

How was last nights "Ball"?

How was "class" today? ;)

[FLYMATE]

Thunor, yes, I am still happy with what is being told to me, as I feel I am not being lied to and the intentions of making certain decisions are in all our interest. So why the silly questions? Can we keep it sensible or not at all. I am glad though that jmc-man now acknowledges that I have a contract, something he "knew for a FACT" that I didn't have....

[Buster the Bear]

Decided to lease some shoddy airframes that need a lot of TLC so cannot launch in time for Christmas! HaHaHaHaHa! Another festive joke surely?

I hope the above really is not true, for if the rumours written here are correct, then who are those involved with making such a huge and crass leasing decision? Well they must be fools?

My understanding is that a certain orange airline will have an additional 3 airframes based at Luton, probably prior to Now making tickets available to the public (And Bear's)!

Now must have some pretty huge pockets to borrow from during the interim period!

Ciao-Fly for now!

[bacardi walla]

quote...
"NOW has no AOC

NOW has no reservation system

NOW has no passengers

NOW has no aircraft"
unquote...

...actually, the AOC is about to be awarded, NOW does have a reservation system it's just that joe public and the likes of jmc-man don't have access to it, once active, there will be passengers, and NOW do have aircraft lined up.

:zzz:

p.s. page 6 !!!

[jmc-man]

You see, thats the rub, Bacardi Walla....

"...about to be awarded"

"Joe Public don't have access"

" there WILL be passengers"

"aircraft lined up"

Lots of talk....nothing tangible (look up the definition if you're not sure).

And in the meantime, a lot of enthusiastic people getting the run around.


Says it all really.

[bacardi walla]

jmc-man a sad individual by the sounds of it, reading your previous threads tells me you get a kick out of slagging things down. The reason there is no AOC is because the CAA won't issue it until they have the a/c, and that's the only reason. The reason they don't have the a/c is, well, we all know that by now. The reason they can't sell tickets is because of no AOC. Why don't you do all on here a favour. Wind your neck in and just sit back and wait, or do you not have anything else do with your life except run people and companies down.

By the way, I'm not an insider. I just figure things out myself from those who are

:ok:

[jmc-man]

Bacardi,

All I do is react to the unbridled, enthusiastic shouting that NOW is/will be the greatest thing since sliced bread.

So far they havn't demonstrated that they are up the job.

We'll wait and see ( as, it would appear, will most of the staff)

[saltrock surfer]

jmc-man

QUOTE All I do is react to the unbridled, enthusiastic shouting that NOW is/will be the greatest thing since sliced bread!!!!!

Who exactly has been shouting that then or is that as difficult to answer as a question I've asked you twice with no response namely 'who has had there start date forcibly delayed to Feb?'

You claim that all you're doing is bringing balance but that is not the case - your view which you're entitled to express is put forward with a passion which indicates that there is more to it.

You protest when people criticise you and I'm pretty sure that on the previous thread you said soemthing like ' don't attack me' yet you on more than one occasion have been unkind in your comments about the management team at NOW (without any provocation from what I can see). So why do do attack them? What have they done to you?

So what is your case?

Why spread untrue muck on this forum which can only be to unsettle folks about NOW.

WHY?

[Wing Commander Fowler]

Quite simply......... because he can!

;)

[Dirty Harry]

Been working overseas for the summer and have just logged back into my regular pprune session to read the absolute rubbish posted by JMC MAN.

JMC - MAN who or what has upset you about NOW. You need to provide us your reasons behind your continued assault on NOW and the management or I suggest you play somewhere else if you wish to play childish games. You are a pain in the neck.

[jmc-man]

Wing Commander Fowler.....thank you....you put it so succintly.

Bacardi...pardon me for pointing this out ( I know the scroll back facility doesn't get used much) but this thread was started by FLYMATE, crowing about a "soon to be issued AOC" and entitled "NOW AIRLINES - A GREAT BEGINNING", pardon me if I see the slightly funny side of that, in the light of subsequent developments.

I havn't said a single thing on this thread or any other thread which has been untrue.

Dirty Harry, can I suggest if you don't like what you read here, you avoid the place. Remember I didn't start this thread.

[Ttree Ttrimmer]

JMC-Man You do report gossip that is untrue and has been regularly corrected by regular postings. Unfortunately you display the characteristics that this industry is trying to rid itself of. May I suggest it is time for another CRM course for you! Possibly there is a deeper root to your inability to listen to the information provided by those in the know or are you really the only person in the aviation world who knows how it all works?

I beleive your vendetta to be aimed at one or two individuals within the management team of NOW . May be the COO in his previous position as TRE gave you a hard time in the sim?

The so called "unbridled optimism" is an indication that going to work for this company is going to be a positive experience rather than listening to whining from something other than the CFM's!

The breifing given at the beginning of last week to inform us of the future of the company was not only timely but professionally handled. It indicates a desire to put the crews higher up the food chain and look after them as the resource that they are. A refreshing change to past policy within airlines. Lets hope it lasts.

[jmc-man]

Ttree Ttrimmer

Believe whatever works for you.

But let me quote a few other people.....




CPT4C

with the limited finance they have available they will not be able to compete with easyJet or Monarch out of Luton.

Bacardi Walla

Maybe the fixed pricing NOW AIRLINES have adopted will work depending on how low the fixed prices are? Maybe they have changed their mind though on fixed prices

just a question then....is the first flight 11th December or not ?

getoverit

I would like to think that NOW will be success - BUT like so many others I do wonder whether their pricing system will bring in enough of a profit. And all this talk of free IFE, two class cabins etc is too far removed from the whole idea of 'low cost'. As we all know, the likes of Go, easyJet and Ryanair are all based on the low-cost model Southwest. Their success is down to keen pricing and high frequency.

FLYMATE

Let's just say that everyone should wait until Monday for any more news regarding launches. I have a few favourites I would like to see as destinations, but I haven't a clue as to which have been selected to launch with.

Thunor

I genuinely wish NOW all the very best but sadly I feel very sorry for those who have given up existing jobs and incurred other expenses in order to join this outfit who already (RUMOUR has it!) at this initial stage cannot honour their initial promises to these loyal and faithful supporters........!




I could go on....but you can see there's enough there to justify my observations.

With regard to your COO, I met him briefly when he was a First Officer with Virgin Express, a few years back.

So, as there will be no more news from NOW, I'll leave you guys to it, until theres another "announcement". Or until you take another personal pop at me...whichever comes first.

[bacardi walla]

jmc-man why quote my questions?

I had them answered but as most of the information is commercially sensitive, I chose not to blast it across the pages of a "rumour network". It's called being professional. You may one day have to crack open the champers, you may not, lets just wait and see because unless you have anything to gain from NOW, it would be best to leave them alone and do something more constructive. Would'nt you agree :confused:

[The Grim Reaper]

JMC-man.

I have no idea why you are so bitter and twisted. If someone has upset you then let us know who and how?

I am one of the NOW airlines pilots and am making this post whilst on a full salary, having started on my expected start date. I am not a management pilot, just an average joe bloggs line pilot. What's your problem?

I would like to extend an invitation to you ; come over here and I will show you around and give you a bit of genuine information on which to base your opinions. Then perhaps we could all have a rest from your constant, misinformed bleatings on the subject. Drop me an e-mail and I will sort it out.

Alternatively, if you are not man enough to identify yourself then me and my mates could arrange

LEAVE it out Lads. No Need. Hogg

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

The Grim Reaper, another member of NOW staff and another post completely devoid of any information. Mind you if I were on a full salary for doing rock all I'd be happy enough, you just wonder how long it's going to go on for.

[saltrock surfer]

To quote jmc-man

I havn't said a single thing on this thread or any other thread which has been untrue

So for the 4th time of asking who has had there start date forcibly delayed to Feb????

[Ttree Ttrimmer]

No body has had their start date forcibly changed. That is the whole idea of the offer given. IMHO that is the way it should be and it was handled very well.

JMC-Man It was not a personal pop, just observations made (and one assumption about your past) from your previous postings, that you seem to hold in such high regard. The quotes you have used actually show a little contradiction in your post about unbridled enthusiam. As profesionals we are doubters, that's what helps to keep us safe but I think your attack on a company you have nothing to do with is a bit strong and should be tempered.

Grim Reaper If you need any extra muscle, I'm freeee!

[Fifty Above]

jmc-man I tend to echo your sentiments, and feel that NOW do indeed have a serious credibility problem at this point in time.

A colleague of mine considered joining NOW - he was asked whether he could find a way of reducing his (3 month's) notice period (by taking leave) so that he could join on 1st October - he politely declined their offer of employment citing the fact that he could not afford to be unemployed if things didn't go to plan.

Whilst I applaud NOW's decision to apparently offer all their employees immediate fully paid employment (if indeed this is the case) I question the rationale behind this decision - altruism has very little place in the modern business model and is tantamount to committing financial suicide.

As has been said already GO were marketing themselves and selling seats months before they started flying and therefore generating revenue - did NOW budget for paying a whole load of people to sit around twiddling their thumbs for ... one? ... two? ... three months, before commencing business?

I don't know which aircraft NOW will eventually commence their operation with, but I hope it's not the previously mentioned GO airframes. Their President of Flight Operations has been flying these aircraft for the last five years, and he should really know better.

I wish everyone at NOW the best of luck - they will need it.

[FLYMATE]

In response to jmc-man's question of why I started this thread. The previous thread had run it's course and was actually closed by a moderator-Hamrah-was his/her name. The previous thread had a negative title-Now or Never-

I started this present thread to reflect the imminent launch of the airline, with a more positive title. I also hoped that comments and opinions would be more positive. I would say we now get more constructive comments now with of course a few exceptions. More and more people here are posting words of encouragement, which is nice. I don't mind jmc-man commenting at all, I do wish though that he would post comments knowing the facts. The fact is he does not have the facts.

It is plainly clear to most that NOW will be in the air soon. If only jmc-man could see the amount of activity going on at the offices. He would then change his views. It truly is a buzz of activity. No one at NOW actually harps on about the delay as much as jmc-man and his cynical pals. Everyone at NOW do their day to day business adding and tweeking the operation in the full knowledge of how much is being done. To NOW employees there is no feeling of "a non-starter".

The deferred start to February is a sensible decision. With the launch of the web site, there will be the passengers booked that jmc-man so eagerly wishes to see. The time period from the web site launch to February will give the time for the aircraft to fly full, or as close to full as is expected.

I repeat, NOW management could have told everyone to "go away", but they did not. They value the people who have joined, so have offered very, very, good terms to all who wish to invest in NOW. This was going to be done anyway, and NOW employees will all have a generous stake in the company from day one. I applaud the managers who have faith in the people, and clearly see that the management team want to value and encourage employee ownership of NOW.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Go had its AOC awarded on Tuesday 19th May 1998 - three days before the inaugural flight with £000,000's of tickets already sold.

Cheers

WWW

[Hogg]

Lads Get the thread back on track or Ill close it.

Best of Luck to anyone whos got the b**ls to start a new venture in this business.

Hogg

[Nice Touch]

Grim,

I'm with you as well mate.

JMC you have been asked a question-answer please.

You talk of credibilty-reveal your source of information and anger and we will talk in an ADULT way- NOW that's fair...

[CPT4C]

Is it any wonder people think NOW will never happen? if they were serious about starting in October they would have been selling seats in July, the managers did not know until recently that the aircraft were going to be delayed therefore people will assume that they had no intention of ever starting in October. Again i wish them luck as i feel they are going to need it.

[Ikkle!]

Just a question...

If the AOC is "in the bag" and just awaiting aircraft delivery, hasn't the Commercial Protection Group at the CAA done a financial check long before now?? I'm kind of assuming they must be financially fit right????

[Whippersnapper]

That's the point - all the inspections and checks for the AOC have been passed, first time round (rare, I'm told), so as soon as the AC is delivered and checked, the AOC will be issued.

As a rank and file pilot in NOW I'm not in on the big plans, but am amazed at the un-educated speculation and, in some instances, unwarranted trashing going on in this forum. Though superficially of concern, the decision to delay sales, route announcements and so on until the AC have arrived and the AOC recieved is a cautious and mature one. More damage to confidence would be done if mass refunds had to be made on seats sold too early, or if we started flying empty AC around because we started the schedule without enough sales lead-time. The NOW managers have resisted the great temptation to press ahead too fast, and this shows how the company is not being built on sand like some of our ill-wishing bretheren.

The point is that all those who were promised jobs have them, and have been given the choice of leave or immediate start, and whether to be paid in salary or shares. No-one has been delayed against their will without renumeration and ongoing commitment from the company.

Now, JMC-man, before you post another anti-NOW retort, make sure it's accurate.

[FLYMATE]

Here here, Whippersnapper, I have been saying to jmc-man and the others for months to base their comments on FACTS, he says he has facts but they are only speculations. This is true because he is not an employee and so knows nothing. It's nice to read here the nice comments. Seems all involved are happy with the decision to defer to a later date. No one has twisted my arm to defer, and as you say, shares and other offers have been made to me and I have chosen one of the options and am happy with it.

When will these cynics be happy? Perhaps NOW can give all the cynics a free return flight on the first flight. Or better still, a one way...:p

[easy]

hear, not here!:*

[MerchantVenturer]

"hear, not here!"

easy,

Was not the origin of this the ancient expression of support, 'Hear him, hear him' ?

[skeptik]

And now for something extremely ancient ...

The words "Crucify Him! Crucify Him!" spring to mind, although I think someone already offered a version of that option behind the Luton flying club a bit earlier.

Seriously though, twiddling thumbs at a keyboard to test out the on line booking system seems time (and money) well spent. At least we know it works before it's launched.

[jmc-man]

Ikkle, there is a difference between the AOC issued by the SRG and a route licence issued by the CPG. It's the route licence that is affected by financial fitness, not the AOC.

The AOC needs an aircraft, hence the delay. No aircraft at the moment.

I'm not going to take the bait, guys. Get an aircraft, an AOC, and some passengers and we'll ALL believe. Until then we'll remain sceptical. But you shouldn't care, should you !

February is the very worst month of the year for passenger travel. Best of luck with that one.