737 crashes into World Trade Centre

[sunnykid]

Just saw on CNN that a 737 has crashed
into the World Trade Centre.

Pictures look very disturbing.

RIP all those who have perished

[Knold]

Just heard it on the news. Found this picture...

http://i.cnn.net/cnn/images/0109/top.wtc.jpg

[Rollingthunder]

Another a/c has flown into the other tower..06:02 PST..massive explosion and fire. Both towers on fire. B737 or A320/ Deliberate act.

[Self Loading Freight]

Reports that the FBI were investigating a hijack immediately before...

It's beyond words.

R

[Rollingthunder]

AP reporting an AA commuter a/c hijacked shortly before one of the crashes.

[Knold]

Found this as well
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/0109/11/trade.jpg

[Lefthanddown]

Two individual 737's in a terrorist attack.
One in each tower
The third one hijacked has been flown into the pentagon.

What a terrible day

[ 11 September 2001: Message edited by: Lefthanddown ]

[Knold]

According to rumors I just hear Pentagon should be on fire...

[GWYN]

And now (1345Z)one plane crashed into the Defense Department, at The Pentagon. Pentagon and White House evacuated.

My God! What next?

Edited for correct time!

[ 12 September 2001: Message edited by: GWYN ]

[Throtlemonkey]

just heard on the news a third aircraft has crashed into the pentagon.

[GWYN]

And now (0145Z)one plane crashed into the Defense Department, at The Pentagon. Pentagon and White House evacuated.

My God! What next?

[Green on, Go!]

Second acft was American Airlines B767 that departed from Boston. Unconfirmed reports of a helicopter crashing into the pentagon. Another fire in the mall in Washington DC.

[Feeton Terrafirma]

Words fail me!

http://a.cnn.net/cnn/images/0109/top.wtc.2nd.plane.jpg

[Huck]

Both World Trade Center planes were west coast bound - one from BOS, one from IAD - that means heavies or perhaps A320.

Pentagon was hit by commuter a/c.

Fire coming from 2 blocks from white house (state dept.?)

1-2 more aircraft still missing and presumed airborne.....

[Ernesto]

It's dreadful to think that this can happen. What is even worse is that there are those who call these devils "Freedom fighters".

What next ?

Our thoughts must be with those who have friends and relatives affected by this enormous tragedy.

[BoeingBoy]

I only pray that the poor pilots who were in those planes had been removed from control prior to impact, as the thoughts that one must face when ordered to fly into a building are beyond my comprehension. One hopes/presumes the terrorists flew the last few minutes.

My thoughts go to all killed today, especially the crews, both flight deck and cabin who thought today was going to be routine. God rest them all.

My greatest fear now is what that 'numbskull redneck' president is going to authorise as a reprisal. Let's hope we are not looking at the start of world war 3 today! :(

[compression ratio]

Another bloody disgraceful display by the Arab/Palestinian world....when will they let up.

There will be huge reprecutions from this dispicable TERRORIST act.
How can these poeple justify "the cause" by implementing evil attacks on inocent civilians.

My condolances to the families who died.

I now hope the fundamentalist extremists are put to death for these crimes.

[Airbubba]

A 767 is now reported crashed near PIT...

[Bokkerijder]

I´m totally speechless.........

[Huck]

CNN is reporting on the website the Pentagton is bracing for a second plane....

Thanks BoeingBoy for attacking our leader on this day - that how you really want to act?

[Hazel]

Is too awful. is so upsetting. condolences too all this awful thing has affected. could be WW3. Prsident Bush is going to want to kick someone's ass for this, can't say as I blame him. Why are there such awful things in the world. I'm sure they would never have got an airline pilot to have done their dirty work. I hope it was mercifully quick.

[Red Spitfire Driver]

Now a fifth aircraft reported en - route to Washington. All aircraft over USA reported grounded - US not accepting any inbound aircraft. Where will they all go ??
Did Concorde make it into JFK ??

[Kato747]

Let's all take up a collection to give Saddam or Osama a few more "cruise missiles" huh?

Words escape me.........sad, sad day :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Huck]

MBC reports all international arrivals are being diverted to Canada.

[Airbubba]

On Flight Explorer software U.S. carriers inbound from Europe can be seen diverting to Canadian airports. Continental U.S. airspace looks like a ghost town, few airliners, mostly civil aircraft still up. The airband is eerily quite on the scanner...

[Wedge]

I can hardly believe what I have just seen on the TV. This is without doubt the most audacious, horrific and tragic and evil terrorist act we have ever seen. It's clear that whoever did this planned and executed it exceptionally. I hope it's not the beginning of a new era of high profile international terrorism.

My thoughts to those on board the aircraft involved......how many people were on board? There could be hundreds dead so far I think four airliners have been hijacked and crashed.

I don't like Bush much but if I was him I would be determined to get the bastards that have done this. And rightly so.

The Mayor of New York Rudi Giuliani says 'a tremendous number of lives have been lost'. Apparently fighter jets have been deployed over NYC.

Latest says that the crash in Pittsburgh was a 747, not a 767, absolutely terrible.

My thoughts are with the families, of all affected.

[160to4DME]

The first aircraft to hit the Twin Towers is believed to be American Airlines flight 11, BOS-LAX, a B762.

A truly monumental and tragic day; the repercussions in the future do not bear contemplating.

[wryly smiling]

Canada is now closed to all except a/c diverted from the states.
American Airline have lost 2 a/c with a total of 156 people

RIP

[fast cruiser]

God bless all the crews involved in todays unthinkable terror act, also to all the passengers and everyone on the ground.

words fail me

[Rollingthunder]

Find the bastards, get the bastards, damn the torpedoes. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[ 11 September 2001: Message edited by: Rollingthunder ]

[Flare_you_fool!]

AA 757 and 767 took out the trade towers
United a/c crashed south of pittsburgh
See AA press release at www.amrcorp.com (http://www.amrcorp.com)
There is a nationwide ground stop in effect and all a/c in the air have been ordered to land at the nearest suitable.
Anything left flying to be intercepted and if necessary shot down.

RIP

[ 11 September 2001: Message edited by: Flare_you_fool! ]

[newswatcher]

From CNN:

"American Airlines Boeing 767 that had been hijacked after take-off from Boston. American Airlines told CNN that it lost two planes in "tragic accidents," one leaving Boston with 81 passengers and 11 crew aboard, and the second leaving Washington Dulles airport with 58 passengers and six crew aboard. Both planes were en route to Los Angeles"

[Engineer]

Latest is that 2 AA and 1 United aircraft hijacked AA11 762 and United 737 into what was the world trade centre. Possible AA flown into the Pentagon or crashed near Pittsburg

Almost impossible to comprehend

[skua]

Eboy - bad taste
Bloomberg reporting that an a/c with 200 pax has been hijacked on the ground, with explosives, at Cleveland. Some difficult decisions for Dubya.

[fireflybob]

My reactions to these terrible acts:-

1. I have been to my local church and prayed for peace in the world.

2. These acts are not terrorism but acts of war.

3. My prayers and thoughts are with all my fellow human beings in America - as an Englishmen I am with you in your time of grief and disbelief. As a pilot I mourn with and for all my comrades who have died in the course of their duties.

4. I wonder whether any of the IRA terrorists who have been released by the British government are involved, even indirectly, in these despicable acts.

5. What are the ramifications for all of us in the rest of the world and, in particular, the aviation industry? I cannot see the USA being a popular tourist destination for a while.

6. We are now involved in a fight for our basic freedoms and I, for one, would be happy to go to war to defend the freedoms enjoyed in our part of the world.

7. Finally, the biggest threat to the aviation industry comes from within - I wonder how long these terrorist groups have been "lying low" within the industry before committing these acts.

[tony draper]

I only hope that the USA and doesn't implode with recriminations and aportioning blame to the civil aviation industry.
Lot of lessons to be learned here, I don't think civil aviation will ever be the same again.

[BOTFOJ]

can I just say well done to Danny & Co for keeping this site going during the global internet meltdown

horrific day for the human race and a terrible day for aviation in particular, unthinkable...

[tiger burn]

Horrific. I can only echo above sentiments & pray the pilots involved were not at the controls. God bless those who have perished & may the innocents' souls RIP. :(

[Smudge's Lot]

I just cannot believe what I am reading and seeing on the tv.I feel sick to the core-all those poor people. If there is aGod up there, how can this happen.Whoever you are ,who even thought this up-may you forever rot in hell, although even that is too good.My every thought is with America

[Huck]

Hard to believe that foreign nationals could breach security at IAD, EWR and BOS simultaneously. Makes me recall that the Oklahoma City bombing was initially blamed on foreign terrorists.

Also - it would be harder than one thinks to hit a building with a widebody - especially at high speed as the video shows. Obviously whoever did this had at least some flight experience.

Pray - and get prepared....

[Ontheairwaves]

I was flying and ATC ordered us to land at nearest available airport or to route back to home base. As it happened Air Force 1 was not too far away from us at the time.
All the news media are reporting that they do not think that ANY commercial pilot would EVER contemplate flying a large jet liner into a building and cause mass destruction
and that most likely the aircraft had been piloted by the terroists.
They are saying that even a relatively in-experienced pilot could fly the planes straight and level and point it towards a building...hence the jets were under terrorist control at the time.
All aircraft are grounded but FAA are apparently going to make some sort of announcment at 5pm EST.
They have conceeded that the other 22 intl flights still inbound for the US will be allowed to land in the US instead of Canada but will have a military escort and if they veer near any buildings they will be shot down...
My thoughts to all concerned.....still is so incomprehensible that someone could sit down and think up something like this
A sad day for mankind....let alone families of all those concerned and aviation :mad:
I fear that war is at hand.... :( :( :(

[flying monty]

2 American Airlines aircraft, 2 United Airlines aircraft, and apparently 2 aircraft inbound over the atlantic that are not responding to the FAA.

My prayers go out to the innocent victims and their families :(

[Bubbette]

Huck---have you been to a US airport recently? Very little security.

[sky9]

Are thoughts are with all you Americans during this very difficult and disturbing time.

We in the UK have long suffered from terrorist acts in our towns and cities, some of whom received help and support from misguided people in the USA including Senators and Presidents.
What is needed is an agreement that we do not deal with, or support organisations that are not democratic. Unfortunately far too often sentimentality and the view of whether someone is for us or against us is allowed to cloud the issue.

[neil armstrong]

You can't believe that people can be this evil.
I my self have complained about security but you will not hear me again.
God bless the victim's and there family's.
I hope America can get there country back running and find these people.

I still can't believe it.

Neil

[ 11 September 2001: Message edited by: neil armstrong ]

[KeithAlexander]

This has been a truely unbeleivable day, i turned on the tv just to see the second plane impacting the WTC, its like some sort of surreal dream.

One of my memories of flying into Newark airport was the manhatten skyline, now all of a sudden its all changed. Future generations of people will be told of the day this event happened, i find it hard to believe and i watched it live on TV. The question will be asked over and over again:

Where were you the day the World Trade Centre collapsed?

can anything ever be the same again? are aircraft flight decks going to become impenatrable fortresses to stop these terrorists gaining entry to the flight deck?

There was nothing anybody could do stop this attrocity, i mean, would you want to be the pilot of a fighter jet tasked to intercept and shoot down a passenger jet laden with a few hundred passengers knowing that if you dont then an even bigger catastrophe will occur? I think not.

the fact of the matter is, should anybody manage to hijack another jet anywhere in the world we, the people on the ground are powerless to do anything and must simply sit back and wait for the impact.

I feel for the ATC in the NY area who must have been able to see what was happening, what could he/she do to stop it? The answer: Nothing!

Finally my condolences to anybody involved in this act of terrorism, whether it be Flight Crew, passengers, office workers and other innocent bystanders. Coming from Northern Ireland i suppose in some ways hearing about terrorism is nothing new to me, but this has hit especially deep down, not only becuase i watched events unfold, but also because as a pilot hoping one day to fly commercial jets it shows that there is perhaps a flaw or frailty in airline/airport security that must be dealt with immediatly.

RIP

[email protected]

[Squawk 8888]

In the Fourth Surah of the Q'uran is written: Men's minds are evil, and naturally inclined to covetousness. But if ye are kind to women and children, and fear to harm them, God is well acquainted with what ye do.My guess is that God is well acquainted with what these yobs did. Perhaps we should give Him a helping hand with the retribution.

[Dave Hedgehog]

I got a few things to say regarding this horrible, terrible incident;

1) I know its easy for me to say, but i personally, and i presume many people on this BB would rather die at the hands of the terrorists on the plane than knowingly crash it into a building.
2) Whoever is behind this, and i know for definate ITV have mentioned Osama Bin Laden, are dead. maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but there is a sniper bullet or smart bomb with their name on it.
3) I ask for all on the bb to pray to whoever you hold God to be, that the people behind this despicable act are found and brought to bear for their action.


I've just heard that AF1 has landed at an "undisclosed air base". Personally, i thought he wouldnt come down till at least saturday, and i must say i admire the man. I wouldnt want to be in his shoes.

September 11th, 20001; A day which will live in infamy.

im going to have to stop typing now, my hands are shaking too much.

god rest all those poor souls who perished

[OneWorld22]

Words fail,

I was born and raised in New York and I feel physically sick at this horrific attack. Those poor people, just starting the day at work, the same as millions the world over and now...

Anyone who attacks the United States is attacking democracy and our very way of life, an attack on the US is an attack on all of us. Noone can escape that fact.

Nobody attacks the United States and gets away with it.

God bless all those people who have suffered today and god bless America.

[gaunty]

Speechless
I've just watched the whole thing on CNN and I can't get the idea out of my head that this is just a bad movie.

This is what is called Assymetric War peculiar to the new Century. I don't think it's over yet.

God help the US and God help those who did it.

[Capn Lucky]

As Admiral Yamamoto once said:

"I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping Giant"

Those who are responsible are in a world of sh*t and had better just pray to whatever diety they worship.

The President has spoken fron a SAC base Barksdale) in Louisiana and has asked the Amercian people to remain calm. We will. However, we will never forget.

Steve

[Scratch One Bandit]

I really can't believe it. This is extremely sad and horrific. God bless all those involved.

[Winston Smith]

OneWorld22:
Nobody attacks the United States and gets away with it.

It's just that until now the United States got away with attacking everyone else. Like the schoolyard bully who finally discovers that violence can work both ways.

[Bubbette]

Dave Hedgehog--but if this is a Muslim, to them, death is wonderful---in heaven they will have 70 virgins, and all their family goes to heaven also, so it's not a punishment. One punishment might be to make sure their bodies are wrapped in pigskin, as a deterrent to future suicide bombers.


Winston, the US doesn't attack civlians like this.

[ 11 September 2001: Message edited by: Bubbette ]

[minuteman]

This is absolutely dumbfounding. It's like watching a bad dream.
This will mark a comprehensive review worldwide of airport security, and will have a profound effect on the way we go about our jobs.
My heart goes out to all the crew, crews' families, pax, WTC workers, rescue workers et al. This is a massive catastrophe.

[Pilot Pete]

Unbelievable.

Tony Blair has just said that all private flights have been grounded unless specifically authorised and routes for all traffic have been altered to prevent overflights of London! Does this mean London City is closed?

PP

[Send Clowns]

How can any words matter. To all those in the US, or who have friends or family for whom they are concerned, my deepest sympathy. http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/cry.gif

[G-OODY]

Bubette, I can't imagine any murderer of inoccent lives being rewarded with all those things. Suicide is forbidden for sure. Killing the inoccent is forbidden for sure. Isn't it easy enough for you to see and say that these yobs are contradicting their own belief. :confused:

[tech...again]

So many eloquently put posts.....Words simply fail me today.

I do think that, no matter what fellow PPRUNER's views of the USA may be (Winston Smith), they are entirely irrelevant today and in this context always will be. This is beyond doubt a series of tragedies only ever heard of (if then, and certainly not involving large civilian aircraft) in situations of war. Nobody could ever be accused of asking for THIS. I still cannot get my head around any of it.

My thoughts really are with each and every person affected by this utter tragedy.

My deepest sympathies to all concerned.

Clearly the worst day for aviation ever in my humble opinion.

USA airspace now closed until 2359z on September 12th.

[WhatsaLizad?]

Winston,

Go **** your androgynous self. When has the U.S. done such an act?

It is only because of the current laws and regulations that I don't say more about you.

We have done more for this world than any other in human history. We ask for your help to stand against acts like this.

[Stupendous Man]

From airdisaster.com.....


Two jet aircraft have collided with each of the twin towers in New York City at World Trade Center. Shortly thereafter, a large passenger aircraft impacted the Pentagon building in Washington, D.C. Another aircraft has crashed in south-eastern Pennsylvania, near Pittsburgh.

At approximately 10:07am et, one tower of the World Trade Center has just collapsed to the ground. At 10:27, the second tower collapsed.

The following aircraft are reportedly involved in today's terrorist attack:

American Airlines Boeing 767-200 (Flight 11)
Boston, Massachusetts to Los Angeles, California
92 passengers and crew reported aboard.
Impacted the south tower of the World Trade Center in New York City.

United Airlines Boeing 767-200 (Flight 175)
Boston, Massachusetts to Los Angeles, California
65 passengers and crew reported aboard.
Impacted the north tower of the World Trade Center 18 minutes after the first crash.

American Airlines Boeing 757-200 (Flight 77)
Washington, D.C. (Dulles) to Los Angeles, California
64 passengers and crew reported aboard.
Crashed into the Pentagon building in Washington, D.C.

United Airlines Boeing 757-200 (Flight 93)
Newark, New Jersey to San Francisco, California
45 passengers and crew reported aboard.
Crashed in south-eastern Pennsylvania, 80 miles south-east of Pittsburgh.

Early reports indicate that at least 10,000 people were killed in the collapse of the World Trade Center towers in New York City.

[Cyclic Hotline]

Unbelievable. Terrifying. Horrific.....

What words can describe the carnage unleashed upon the innocent people who have so undeservedly lost their lives in these unparalled acts of Terrorism today.

No words or actions can undo the terrible events that have unfolded before our eyes today.

My thoughts, prayers and condolences go to the families and colleagues of everyone so terribly affected by these actions. Their lives will never be the same and I truly share your loss. To our friends and colleagues at United Airlines and American Airlines, I cannot express my emotions as I watched the horrifying events unfold this morning. These events are almost unimaginable, yet we were witness to it today, the 11 Septemeber 2001, another day that will live in infamy.

Before anyone rushes to assign blame and identify the "only" organizations that could accomplish an act like this, remember that a terrorist enemy can originate from anywhere, including from within. Please do not let this thread to become an unbalanced rush to judgement at this early juncture.

There will be a time for action, and when it arrives, the remedy should be decisive and resolute.

My thoughts and prayers to everyone involved on the ground in the aftermath and also all members of the military who may find themselves embroiled in the fight and defence of freedom.

[Cross Check]

One one hand it's hard to believe what we are hearing and seeing on the news ... On the other hand it seems like a case of "just a matter of time" before something of this magnitude happened ... so well orchestrated, merticulously executed, devastatingly effective ... FBI, CIA, et al probably don't know what hit them ... so sad.

My heartfelt thoughts go out the hundreds (if not thousands) who will have died in this tragic act of terrorism.

FAA ground stop is being reported to be in effect until noon tomorrow.

[TowerDog]

Wintson Smith:

Are you as insane and crazy as the terrorist?

Are you saying in your post that the innocent
victims in todays horrors deserve it?

Please clarify.

If indeed your posting reflects your true attitude and beliefs, you are a sick person and should be dealt with accordingly.

[airrage]

I'm sure I speak for all UK airline pilots........

God be with those affected in the US today.

[Wedge]

Winston that was a very insensitive and callous post. Whatever the politics of it this is not the time and the place.

I think LCY may be closed now, the skies here in South London are eerily quiet tonight. Today the biggest story was going to be the Concorde test flight. I remember what a shocking event that the Concorde crash was at the time. Today's events were a thousand times more shocking, I still can't believe what I have seen.

This was an act of war. It is significant that all the flights involved were internal - surely targetted because of the relaxed security.

As for the perpetrators, well it's likely to be the Saudi dissident in Afghanistan, but what about Saddam? He could be behind this, and have been planning it for years as a revenge for the Gulf War.

My thoughts and prayers to all affected by this terrible human catastrophe, the like of which we have never seen.

[Cuddles]

[piperindian]

4 hijackings at the same time in continental US. definitely not good for US airline security or complicities are involved.
Shall we put sheriffs/security personel in all airplanes like in the ole time or El Al ?
also, did the hijickers have piloting skills ? this must be a real possibility in such a high level operation. Note that the two aircraft involved for WTC were both 767, same type ! maybe they should screen all arab pilots with 757 and 767 ratings.
Is Saddam Hussein behind this again ?

[Davaar]

WhatsaLizad, I agree.

The food I ate between 1940 and 1945 and the liberty I have enjoyed since I have owed largely to the United States and Americans; not to the Third Reich, not to the USSR, not to the PRC.

God Bless America.

[Winston Smith]

WhatsaLizad?,
We have done more for this world than any other in human history.

It might be an educative experience for you to investigate how your country is perceived by a non-negligible number of people, especially outside of the western world. - Please note that while I like the USA as a country and its people very much, I'm feeling a bit alienated by its foreign politics.


TowerDog,

what the hell are you imputing to me? I simply tried to offer an explanation as to why such a terrible thing had to happen sooner or later.

I consider your allegation that I condoned this disaster in anyway to be slanderous. Please clarify.

[LatviaCalling]

In all honesty, dear PPruNe members, I don't think this is a time for some American-bashing that I've noticed. In this instance, I take it as a personal offence.

A terrible tragedy has happened -- four airliners have crashed within minutes -- the pilots, the crew and the passengers are all dead. May they rest in peace. But, thanks to whom?

By the way, commercial airline pilot Tim Timmerman, looking out his Arlington, VA, apartment definitely saw an AA or UA B757 crashing into the Pentagon.


To an unworldly bunch of idiots who think that they will eventually rule the world with their pre-fundamentalist thinking in a country called Afghanistan and call themselves Taliban.

If I were Bush, I'd have the F-18s and others ready tonight to wipe Afghanistan off the earth by tomorrow morning. Remember Reagan when when Libya's Quadfi gave him problems. Bomb the sh*t out of him.

[ScottishBurd]

'On eagles' wings I bore You
And brought You unto Myself'

God have mercy..RIP.

[Winston Smith]

LatviaCalling,

judging from most of your previous posts, I would have expected a much more reasonable reaction.

It's exactly that kind of attitude which breeds the hatred we are now witnessing.


And something which I find much more disheartening about this thread:

Why is it that muslim groups are immediately accused without any hard evidence? When a "normal" aviation catastrophe happens, most of us pilots get upset if the media are quick to announce the cause of the disaster before any serious investigation has been launched.

[TowerDog]

Winston:

Well, if you don't understand, go back and read your own post again.

If you still stand by it, and if that is your true feelings, I'll stand by my reply.

Now, this is not meant to be the typical PPRuNe slagging and personal attack, todays tragedy goes way beyond that.

Being an AA pilot that lost many collegues and customers this morning, and being a shocked US Citizen, I am not taking lightly any **** from somebody saying the US is a bully and should excpect no better.

Todays events was an attack on civilization and humanity.

If somebody wants to get to the US Government and their policies, foreign or domestic, go and complain to the UN, NATO, The Human Rights organiztions, whatever, but not this.

Somebody just decleared war in the same sneaky, cowardly way the japs did in 1941.
:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Heliport]

An atrocity of unbelievable proportions. This is not just an attack on America, but on democracy.
My thoughts and prayers are with the crews and all those innocent people who have been killed or maimed, and with the families who have lost loved ones.
God bless all our American colleagues and friends.

Winston Smith of "Krautland":
I was sad to read Boeingboy's tasteless comment, and hoped none of our American colleagues thought Sky9's "We in the UK" remark reflected thinking in the UK.
Those feelings pale into insignificance compared with my reaction to your contributions. You, and your contributions, are both beneath contempt.

Hundreds, probably thousands, of innocent people have been killed or maimed today. Thousands of people are grieving, or worried sick not yet knowing whether their loved ones are dead or alive. This is not the time for America bashing.
Please, if you must, take your thoughtless, twisted comments to JetBlast, and leave this thread to decent people.

[ 11 September 2001: Message edited by: Heliport ]

[Cross Check]

C'mon guys ... take a deep breath and chill out. This is no time to lose ya cool and start a slinging match on the BB. Stay professional dudes.

Makes you wonder if a concept should be taken out of 'Star Trek' and aircraft controls and systems have 'lock-out' codes and commands to prevent unauthorised access in such situations. Remote flight control through Mode S???

[LatviaCalling]

Winston Smith,

As I said in my earlier post, this is not the time to get into America bashing, which seems to have become a great pasttime on this site.

Who the h**l do you think ordered up this call where two AA and two UA planes crashed -- The National Democratic Party of the United States. Get serious man.

Despite my pen-name of LatviaCalling, I've never made any bones about me being an ex-pat American living in Latvia.

I can certainly cite reams and reams of copy of Germany's problems with Turks, Kurds, Yugoslavs, Kosovos and Serbs, than you can about the United States.

But, that's not the point. A major disaster initiated by a foreign power or powers to be has happened in the United States. The country is mourning and believe me, if you have any feeling whatsovere for human beings, this is not the time to stick the needle in to the bone.

I don't even know why it's worth posting on this site with all you arse *oles around that can't even carry on a logical conversation.

Tell me, do you regret the downing of the four planes, or do you rejoice. I need a yes or no!

[Blindside]

Winston Smith - there are no excuses for your comments at this time.

[G-OODY]

Leave it Winston, you can’t possibly make them understand in that state of mind.

But yes for any terrorist act, The Muslim is guilty unless proven innocent.

A very sad day.

[Zoner]

After hearing the news on the radio this morning, I cried for the dead.
After watching the planes fly into the buildings, I cried again.
After hearing that a flight attendant on one of planes called on a cell phone and described being hijacked and the crewmembers being stabbed to death, I cried again.
After watching people jump from 100 floors up to avoid the fire, I cried again.
After hearing that the death toll may be higher than the entire Viet Nam war, I cried again.
Then I had to watch the Palistinians dancing in the streets, handing out candy to the children, celebrating the attack. Americans will come together as never before.

[Winston Smith]

Ok, I concede my comment was inappropriate and way too cynical in the present circumstances. I'll try to refrain from posting on this thread for a short period of time and will heed my own advice about waiting until a few more facts are in.

However, I beg all of you to keep your demands for counter-terror to yourself. Bombing the usual suspects is going to help no one.


LatviaCalling,

it goes without saying that my feelings are with the victims and their families. I consider your question about that to be an insult. My postings on topics like gun-control should have made clear that I am very much concerned with the freedom and well-being of the American people. The fact that I'm not too much surprised about something like this finally happening (especially considering how easy it is) does not mean that I'm not deeply shocked.

Exactly what problems of Germany you are refering to is beyond me - and what they have to do with this thread.

[Winston Smith]

(Perhaps I should add that until now I didn't actually see any pictures of the disaster since I don't own a TV. I'll probably be much more shaken as soon as I get a chance to watch any of the footage.)

[G-OODY]

Then I had to watch the Palistinians dancing in the streets, handing out candy to the children, celebrating the attack.

Firstly, look for causes that would force people to come to a situation where they would behave in such a way.

You will not find any Muslim’s supporting the effect, but the cause is something every Palestinian-Muslim will support. And if millions say the cause is a legitimate one, then who are you to deny it’s not. They have seen their loved ones being killed – of course for them it’s a joyful retribution, it’s a real shame you don’t have the ability to care and cry for all the innocent civilians that have been killed.

[LatviaCalling]

Let's forget about Mr. Smith at this point. What is important is how could 2 1/2 buildings be wiped off the face of this earth in a moment and how could four commercial aircraft be downed at almost the same instant.

Since the Internet is so overfilled and shaky at this moment, I don't know if some of you have tried to answer some of the following questions.

1. As a pilot, if you knew death was certain, wouldn't you rather do a quick flip into the Hudson River?

2. Do you think they shot themselves through the door, took out the pilot and did a Holy Jihad with their own trained pilot. Remember, the two aircraft on the Trade Center were 767s and so was the one in Pennsylvania. The one in the Pentagon was apparently a 757. Maybe they had training on them in a third country.

3. How did they get the necessary arms aboard the aircraft to carry out their hijacking. Any thoughts of accomplices?

I think that these are the kind of things we should be following up and thinking about instead of Mr. Smith's thread lead. And I mean following up these things intelligently. After all, this is not Jet Blast.

All respects,
Emil (LatviaCalling)

[aluminum ovcst]

Latvia Calling

IMHO, answering your first point. As a pilot, the very moment I knew what the traget was, I most definitely would force the plane into the river. Therefore, I must say pont #2 is the most plausible at this time. These were kamikaze men with at least a basic knowledge of how to guide a jet aircraft. In response to 3, there must have been accomplises among ground staff at BOS, EWR and IAD in order to smuggle some type of weapon on the planes.

[xxzz123]

Guys, guys, guys (&gals) - we do not know the facts so quit the political squabble. Buddies have died in circumstances unknown, so a little decorum is called for. LHR app/dep div W, most a/c activity now ceased. Lot's of UHF MIL activity in LON area. Our thoughts & prayers to you folk across the pond. God speed. :confused:

[Capt PPRuNe]

Before some of you try to turn this and other threads into political discussions I would like to ask that you refrain from doing it on any threads in R &N.

These tragedies that have shocked and sickened any normal person will be forever burned into our minds eye. The TV pictures of the 767 crashing into the WTC and the subsequent horror of the collapse of the towers and the undoubtedly massive loss of life have certainly caused me much grief and I will not let a few of you who find it impossible to refrain from the usual pathetic knee jerk reactions to inflame these threads into unmanageable flame wars.

Let us pause and think about the terrible human tragedy of what we have witnessed today and wait for the 'fog of war' clear before we make too many suppositions. The debate can take place on a different forum.

[tunneler]

Well not a helluva lot one can say except god bless all of those who perished (except the murderous bastards who carried out this crime - may you rot in hell for all eternity for your cowardice) and my sinerece condolonces to all of the families and friends who have been affected by this tragedy.

I hope to god that this does not result in another global type conflict as our fathers saw but I fear that the die has been cast before we even knew about it.

Goodnight and godspeed.

Tunny

[Budgie69]

Terrible day.
A few thoughts.
The BBC and CNN keep on about the amount of organisation required by the scum, but surely only a dozen or so were needed - 2 per a/c plus one at each airport to smuggle arms on board.
My experiences of US security lead my to believe that whilst passenger gate security is good, apron security is poor. I retired less than a year ago, but I had learnt enough about Boston security to avoid it if I chose.
Did the Pittsburg crew realise what was happening and make the ultimate sacrifice?

[Budgie69]

Terrible day.
A few thoughts.
The BBC and CNN keep on about the amount of organisation required by the scum, but surely only a dozen or so were needed - 2 per a/c plus one at each airport to smuggle arms on board.
My experiences of US security lead my to believe that whilst passenger gate security is good, apron security is poor. I retired less than a year ago, but I had learnt enough about Boston security to avoid it if I chose.
Did the Pittsburg crew realise what was happening and make the ultimate sacrifice?

[xxzz123]

BBC NOW REPORTING KABUL UNDER ATTACK - EUR/ASIA AWY DISRUPTION CONF. NO CONF OF MIL ACTIVITY AS YET. VAR DIV VIA CMB OCA.

[Wedge]

I am sad but not surprised that there has been the usual PPRuNe slanging match. Well said Danny.

As I have already said, this is not the time and the place guys. There are probably thousands dead, there could be thousands critically injured, let's just remember the human tragedy and not the politics of it.

I think that all here in the UK will agree with me that we stand by our American friends on this awful day for them.

[Stupendous Man]

A CNN correspondent unfortunate to be on the one of the flights (the Pentagon one I think) phoned her husband at the time and reported that the flight had been hijacked by a number of men armed with knives, and that they had all (passengers and flight and cabin crew) had been herded towards the back of the plane.

One would guess that at least one of the doomed flights had an "aviation expert" hijacker with them.

[xxzz123]

Nasty, Nasty, Nasty - focus guy's, kick the politics and concentrate on the issues... Something bad happened up there, and we all need to think about what the hell happened and why.

[Charly]

Shocked and speechless....

Deepest condolence from a german pilot..

[Wedge]

whatsalizad -

I can understand your emotions are high but I think you will look at at reconsider your last post. Arafat has condemned these attacks. If I were you I would stay out of the politics for now, we in the UK are behind the USA but I don't agree with what you have just posted at all. By all means America should retaliate but your reaction seems very knee jerk. Leave it alone for now.

[Latte tester]

WhatsaLizad, well written, there are way too many people in this world that are all to quick to jump on the almighty bandwagon and spout off without proper intel. In his own words....don't own a TV.....would indicate that there is no electrical outlet in his cave. I was glued to my TV for most of the day today, from watching the second aircraft impact the south tower to the collapse of building 7. I am speachless. Clearly an act of cowardice that I personally hope will be rewarded accordingly. I am one of your northern neighbours who send their sympathy and support. God Bless America

[tom775257]

What can you say??

A sad day indeed. I would like to express my deepest sympathy to any people out there who have lost friends / relations in this tragic event. A sad day for aviation. A sad day for America.
I hope the USA response to this is carefull, calculated and above all rational.
Does anyone agree that all the aircraft involved were either 757 or 767 is of significance with regard to training?
May the dead rest in peace.

:(

[BMM389EC]

They shall grow not old
As we that are left grow old
Age shall not weary them
Nor the years condemn
At the going down of the sun
And in the morning
We will remember them.

For the crew.

[cortilla]

I think I finally understand what my parents mean when they say they will always remember exactly where and when they found out that JFK was shot.
It was really ironic a few hours before we started the HP and L course by watching a video on the tenerife crash un til today the worst ever incident in aviation history. And the lesson where we found out we started on the Tokyo convention dealing with unlawful interference. I couldn't wouldn't believe the person who told me, and now that i've seen that ac crash into the building probably hundreds of times i still find it impossible to believe. pilots get trained to do whatever a terrorist tells them to do, with the full expectation tat they are going to land at some airport and eventually get freed. pilots never get trained in the expectation that they are going to die. Is the the new form of terrorism then???if so, i hear sheep farming in the australian outback is still quite cheap to get into :( :(

[PsychoDad]

The saddest of days has unfolded. Never would I have imagined anyone reckless and blood thirsty enough to even contemplate such a scheme. Truely appaling, and I trust that whoever did this will be brought to short and swift justice. To put it bluntly, somebody is looking down the barrel of a cruise missile.

To the people of the United States of America, I offer you my deepest sympathy for the victims and their families. I also offer my full support in any endeavour you will undertake to bring the guilty persons to justice. Outside the US embassy in Copenhagen this evening, 100s of people are gathering laying flowers and lighting candles in a quite display of support and sympathy.

I am not a beliver in God, but tonight things are not what they used to be. I feel deeply for the people who have died and their families, and I especially feel very deeply for the passengers and crew on the aircraft used in this cowardly way. I am certain that the flight deck crew had been taken off the flight deck and the aircraft was under terrorist command. No pilot would ever deliberatly do this, for my own sake I would rather have eaten a bullet or ditched in the Hubson or Potomac.

[OneWorld22]

I'm still numbed, a dreadful day also of course for aviation and for American and United Airlines. Dreadful for those companies' workforce, so Towerdog, wino, dallas dude and all the rest, we're with you in grief.

What those passengers went through and particulary the pilots went through is unimaginable, it really is chilling to think of what the scenes would have been like in the cockpit when the trouble first broke out. God only knows what kind of struggle went on, I strongly suspect the pilots would have been either murdered or severly disabled before the impacts. Just gruesome.
It will change our industry forever.

RIP brothers.... :(

[nomdeplume]

To our American colleagues, my sympathy to your and your fellow americans. God Bless you, and God Bless America.

To Heliport, Capt PPRuNe and other like-minded contributors, I salute you for your efforts in trying to restore some decency to the thread.

[BRL]

Feeling stunned and very sad at the moment.
For the families and friends of the crews involved today, my deepest sympathy to you all.
To all who lost colleagues today, my thoughts and prayers are with you all tonight, you know you are not alone through this terrible time.
For all who suffered today, "You will never walk alone......."

R.I.P.

[exaac]

This is a very distressing situation all round however I feel we have a duty to the deceased to assist in the investigation. The fact of the matter is that the flight crew were obviously not at the controls at the impact and judging by the level of planning that these people have obviously gone to it is more than likely that they have had some form of flight training, it may have been rudimentary or it may have been advanced. basically someone somewhere has had to have unwittingly trained them. I think everybody who has trained anybody to fly cast there minds back and if anybody they have instructed at any level that just somehow don't seem quite right for any reason comes to mind pass the details on to the authorities, the good thing is you can't possibly point the finger at an innocent man because if they find them still around alive and kicking they are obviously not involved but if they turn out to be missing and unaccountable they may in fact be a lead that could find the guilty party. As you may be aware in the Pan Am flight investigation it was evidence that was a lot harder to find that lead to a conviction.

[dopeyhead]

'BLACK TUESDAY'
A day that will live in all our minds until the day we die.
When I turned on the tv today I thought that I was still in bed dreaming, unfortunitly I wasn't. I was deeply shaken by the horrific events that unfolded before my eyes, I still cant believe it. However I cant help making a few points
I remember sitting on a plane a couple of months ago(as a passenger) in the US and talking to some guy who preeched to me about how another war was very close as it was all written in the bible in , I think it was revelations and how the east and west were going to enter the worst conflict in history
.I thought he was mad, until today. I am not a religious person but today I read it and everything he said was correct, and I must say that I was terrified by what came next.
I know that I am kind of contradicting myself when I say this ,but if Afganistan(kaliban etc) has denied involvement then we must assume that this attack(if it came from the middle east)is the work of a minority and if this is true then war seems unlikely as they would be too small and very difficult to blow away(guerillas etc)and too small a force to create a world war(and it does sound as if they dont have that much finances as they didn't use any bombs or expensive material).I just hope that it is not the work of another nation or group of nations and I also hope no anti-democratic nation sees it as a good opportunity to engage in war.
I also heard that the hijackers used knives(not guns) and if this is so, then I do not blame American lack of security as knives can be smuggled aboard,I seen it.
I sorry that I had to say all of the above on such a horrific day ,but I just cant help thinking.
My heart goes out to all the famillies,American or otherwise(I say this as there were probably many tourists at around or in the trade centre) who suffered
irreplacable losses , May god be with you all

[scroggs]

It was my little girl's fifth birthday today. These events had started to unfold before I had spoken to her, and I subsequently found it very difficult to be the joyful Daddy she needed and expected.
Many thousands of parents, grandparents and children died today without ever having harmed anyone else. The crews and passengers of those aeroplanes were but a tiny percentage of the total casualties. Talk of retribution is premature and irrelevant for the moment. Think of all those thousands of bereaved families; that possibly more people have died today than in all wars with Western involvment since 1945. When the grieving is over, then will be time for cool retaliation, and the perpetrators will regret ever making an enemy of America and the civilised world.

[aardie]

I don't work in the aviation industry, so I am not even sure that my words are entirely appropriate here. However, having been told about the terrible 'accident' of an aircraft crashing into the WTC whilst at work and then imediately turning on the television only too observe another aircraft impact the building was unbelievable. I think that imgage will haunt me for a considerable time. It really has been deeply affecting.

All I would really like to say is that, if I as an outsider, can be this upset by the images and events of the last 24 hours I can't begin to imagine how dreadful it must be for those of you working in the industry. Equally I realise it must be a dreadful time for everyone else touched by these events.

Basically I think I am grasping for words other than to say I hope none of you here will ever have to encounter, first hand, the utterly dreadful experiences that today has brought

[ 12 September 2001: Message edited by: aardie ]

[5bradleys]

Has anyone noticed that all the aircraft used in this awfull event share a type rating? Someone somewhere has been in a "box"

[Rockhound]

Exaac,
Are you really unsure whether the hijacker pilots of the aircraft that flew into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were beginners or experts? Surely they were trained heavy-jet pilots, very likely trained specifically on either the B-757 or 767. How could they otherwise have accomplished what they did? It is surely no coincidence that each of the three aircraft were one or the other type.
Rockhound

[Huck]

Shouldn't be too hard to make a database of everyone who has been in a 75/76 sim worldwide within the last year or so....

The second plane hit very fast - 300 kts or so, in a ~30 deg bank. Definitely knew what they were doing. He almost came out the other side - most of his fuel did, and one engine core streaked across the sky, still producing thrust after passing through.

[WonkyVectors]

My thoughts and prayers are with all Americans tonight. I will never be able to erase the horrific images from my mind, and I will never, ever forget about those who were murdered today.

May, in Heaven, all their dreams come true.

[camrich]

I have just woken up this morning to hear of the terrible tragedy in America. My heart goes out to all the families touched by this dreadful loss. This is a day that will go down in history as one of the worst days to be remembered for ever. It is raining here today as somehow it feels as if God is crying in heaven as he looks down as watches mans inhumanity to man.
... at the going down of the sun and in the morning we will remember them....

[frequentboeingflyer]

What happened today feels like somebody has attacked my own family. It is unbelievable. How can somebody be this evil.
Do you think the CVR will give a lead to the language being used or maybe even the dialect?
The theory of commonality of B-767/757 seems very interesting.
Does this date make any "anniversary" of any actions made by The US or any others?
My prayers goes to the ones waiting for their dearest ones. It really hurts.

[Mowgli]

Words cannot express the grief that all civilised people must be sharing after todays events. The huge numbers of people who have suffered unimaginably today make it tempting for the mind to shut off to the scale of tragedy. I am trying to remember that each victim was one person whose demise was as significant amongst the many as if an isolated event had claimed a single life somewhere. I am grasping for some sense but it is hard. The horrific images I have seen have extended the boundaries of normal experience.

The civilised world must unite - we suffered a terrible blow today and our energies must combine to ensure that we can once again feel that the human race has advanced.

Humanity has been threatened and must be restored. It goes without saying that my thoughts are with all those who have suffered so much today.

[CoodaShooda]

Even in our peaceful backwater, we share the shock and grief. Our thoughts go to the innocent victims, their families and friends.

George W has just spoken of going forward in the name of freedom. Please let this be a measured response.

My 8 year old has told me that the yanks should "nuke the b**tards". I can only question the values of the world he has been raised in (and over which I have no control) if such is his initial response to the tragedy.

But I fear his reaction may be shared by those much older and assumedly 'wiser'. We can only live in hope.

Good luck to you all, wherever you are.

[SFly]

I still cannot believe what has happened. It's such an immense loss of life and such an immense national uneasiness that it is beyond even logical thought.

Although it is beyond words, I think Tony Blair has said it best so far:

"The full horror of what has happened in the United States earlier today is now becoming clearer.

"It is hard even to contemplate the utter carnage and terror which has engulfed so many innocent people.

"As for those that carried out these attacks there are no adequate words of condemnation. Their barbarism will stand as their shame for all eternity.

"As I said earlier, this mass terrorism is the new evil in our world.

"The people who perpetrate it have no regard whatever for the sanctity or value of human life and we the democracies of the world must come together to defeat it and eradicate it.

"This is not a battle between the United States of America and terrorism but between the free and democratic world and terrorism.

"We therefore here in Britain stand shoulder to shoulder with our American friends in this hour of tragedy and we like them will not rest until this evil is driven from our world."

May God rest in peace all the souls whose lives ended so abruptly and unexpectedly today.

[Capn Lucky]

Hey Guys,

Just a few facts to add to thie discussion.
1. The hijackers apparently used bux cutters or small knives which could get through security legally.
2. The perpetraitors chose a Tuesday morning which would be one of the slowest travel days of the year as summer unofficialy ended last Monday in the US. This would ensure the fewest possible pax tro resist their efforts.
3. Several news organizations showed the tracks of the a/c fron BOS to New York. There had to be either direct communication between the a/c or some ground control to turn the second a/c on to the target at an approriate time to ensure maximum coverage by the news media. OK, this last point is largely conjecture on my part. Perhaps they were just lucky.

I hope this means that large carry-ons will no longer be allowed in the pax compartment and that securty will no longer be handled by the lowest bidder.

Steve

[Drop and Stop]

Its a sick sick world we live in. I seem to recall that 3 people connected with the Embassy Bombings in East Africa 1998 (also connected to Bin Laden) all had pilot licences.

If we could wind the clock forward by three months I wonder where we will be?

[ 12 September 2001: Message edited by: Drop and Stop ]

[TowerDog]

"Let this be a measured response??"

Yeah right, lets all remain calm and think about this little problem.
Perhaps we can all solve it peacefully and lets all remain friends.

Hello planet Disnyland:

Do you belive that a few insane idiots, attacking your country, killing 10000 people, should be faced with a little measured response?
(Well, we know they may be bad or confused, but lets be reasonable and be nice to them.)

Let the swine fry...Lets get some big pots out and let 'em slowly cook in oil. Like the good old days. That should be a measured response.

A nuke attack would be way to nice and to easy.

These idiots don't understand that if somebody's finger slip off the big button, their entire country be gone.

G-OODY:

Your statement to Winston:

"You can not possible make them understand"

Understand what?

Please explain.

You another brain washed rag-head having no clue about the value of human life?

If so, just say the word and many of us Infidels would be happy to snuff out yours.

[Wino]

these things don't happen in a vacume and these people are supported, coddled and egged on by various populations.

I volunteer to turn the key.

First cruise missle should go to the square where the palestinians are celebrating.


Wino

[MilPil]

After a long day patrolling the shores of the UK for an unknown reason, I get back to my accomodation to find out what has happened across the pond. I don't think that I believe it yet. I have watched the 2nd CA crash several times and I still don't believe it.
Having been in hostile action before I thought I had seen death and destruction, but nothing can compare with this.

My thoughts and sympathy are with the families, friends and collegues of those involved.

I am on again in 7 hours and I will be thinking of this act of sheer lunacy and utter contempt to human life for a long time.

A sad day for everyone. There are tears in the messhall tonight.

I look forward to seeing the group responsible for this horrific act being "prosecuted" although I would prefer to flatten him and his family personally.

A VERY angry RAF boy. :(

[FREDA]

How do you get a knife or box cutter on to a plane?

I hate to disillusion people who might think that we in Europe have secure airports but this actually happened to me last week in LHR.

As I came to the metal detectors in terminal one en-route to Prague I watched the guy in front of me take a swiss army knife out of his pocket, put it in the plastic tray with his keys and walk through. He set it off anyway so while he was patted down I walked through and watched with amazement as, after the patdown, the security guy actually handed the guy his keys and the knife.

Security is only as good as the people who apply it.

[jumpseater]

Towerdog,
yes I feel a measured response is required, like a surgeon cutting out a cancerous tumour.
Here in the UK we don't know the casualty figures yet or any accurate estimates, but before the media and pundits go into a feeding frenzy on the numbers, a sobering thought is that the Feb 1945 bombing raids on Dresden in Germany, accounted for somewhere between 35 and 135,000 victims over 2 nights. To blindly strike out will only escalate the problem and draw more and more groups into 'the fight'. I have a 5 year old daughter and a new delivery expected from the 'factory' in December, I don't want either of them to grow up in a world like my parents had to in the early 40's.

I've also had the opportunity to speak to my brother who's in America today, I feel an enormous amount of sorrow for those who will never have the opportunity to speak to friends , relatives or colleagues who were victims yesterday.
RIP all victims of the 11th
JS

[BayAreaLondoner]

This is slightly off-topic but I'm sure you'll find it interesting.
I was reading the French daily Le Monde and came across an interview with Aaron Swirski, the architect of the World Trade Center. It turns out the the Jerusalem Post interviewed him and a copy of that interview is available on their site to listen to (in English): http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/09/11/News/News.34595.html

[RatherBeFlying]

How did they do the hijacking?

Facts/Rumours so far:
- Box cutters or other small knives used (either they found something that would get past security or they would have to subvert security on a precise schedule in several locations)
- Low passenger loads (enabling small number of hijackers to overpower/hold off pax; I suspect several hijackers/plane as a half-dozen guys with knives would likely succumb to a couple hundred seriously agitated pax)
- Enough training to fly 767 (the training may not have been in a box; there are some good quality PC sim programs out there that might have been enough on top of basic pilot lessons - and I recall an instructor telling me of a 747 box where you could fly through tall buildings; so maybe they did train in a box)
- Very high degree of organisation
- CVRs will be valuable unless hijackers knew how to pull CB (digging usable CVRs out of WTC rubble may be problematic, but Pentagon and Pittsburgh CVR likely retrievable)

For what it's worth, rapid (if possible) decompression might be worth consideration as an ultimate desperation hijacker countermeasure; at least it would be hard for the hijackers to move around while remaining on O2.

[Squawk 8888]

I guess they figured boxcutters would do nicely because nobody on board is armed. Heck, even if they couldn't get so much as a pointed stick onto the plane a few people well-trained in martial arts could probably have done the job anyway. The only real deterrent would be to hire more Air Marshalls, and perhaps letting the pilots themselves carry hardware. These terrorists have such a low regard for human life that they don't care about dying, but I doubt any are interested in dying without taking the innocents with them.

[TOGA Thrust]

I too have been on the wrong side of US foreign policy. However nothing excuses this horrendous, cowardly attack on innocents and our profession.

I hope the world no longer tolerates any of the various pariah states and terrorist organisations capabale of this, whether responsible or not. Its time to shut down the Bin Ladens, Saddams, Qadaffis etc of this world. Let this never happen again.

My heartfelt sypathies to all the victims and to America and her people

[RatherBeFlying]

Swiss Army Knife a Lousy Weapon

My Swiss Army Knife goes wherever I go while clothed including in the back. It's a great tool and a next to useless weapon. The blade if it did not fold back on your fingers would likely get severely bent if you tried sticking it into live flesh, the owner of which would not likely be cooperating.

[PaperTiger]

If that brave passenger, God bless, was correct then knives and box-cutters would have been available airside of security. Any of the restaurants/food outlets would have them to hand, and I doubt there is much in the way of a background check for the cooks and dishwashers who work there.

I rarely cry. I cried today.

[bunyip]

1.The airlines I have worked for tell us to cooperate with a hijacker. When the SQ hijacking took place I was amazed to find they used butter knives taken from their meal trays. I hope that airlines will re-think this policy. Cooperation is no guarantee that you or your passengers will survive.
2. If the US goes after the terrorists, I hope they give up that insane "no matter what, our boys and girls must not be harmed" policy. Please, please don't bomb the terrorists from 15,000 feet. Get down there and do the job properly.

[airbourne]

Having watch the news for most of the day, it is still hard to believe what has happened. This will be one of the single most tragedys of our modern world.

Where were you?

1943 - Pearl Harbour
1963 - John F Kennedy assinated
1998 - Princess Diana killed in Paris crash

2001 - World Trade Centre destroyed, thousands dead!

'May perpetual light shine upon them. May the souls of all the faithfully departed through the mercy of God rest in peace. Amen'

[Tiger Lily]

Afternoon kids... (Mriya225 here, I just so happen to be in Connecticut visiting my boyfriend, and my brother in Brooklyn, during this craziness--my login was failing so I had to re-register under a different name)

Tower Dog,
I can't remember if you were flying the 767's, 777's or 747's, luv, but I was wondering why it was so easy for these aircraft to be commandeered by somebody with a box cutter, for krissakes?!?
Also, maybe you or one of the other drivers out there could help me out with these points of concern... The flightdecks on the 757 & 767 are supposed to be remarkably similar--are the type ratings similar enough to use for cross over experience just long enough to hit a target? and what kind of security measures do you all use to protect yourselves from passengers in cases like these?

My mind is still reeling from the staggering failure of the FAA's security measures to ensure that situations like these are averted...

American Airlines Boeing 767-200 (Flight 11)
Boston, Massachusetts to Los Angeles, California
Impacted the north tower of the World Trade Center in New York City.

United Airlines Boeing 767-200 (Flight 175)
Boston, Massachusetts to Los Angeles, California
Impacted the south tower of the World Trade Center 18 minutes after the first crash.

American Airlines Boeing 757-200 (Flight 77)
Washington, D.C. (Dulles) to Los Angeles, California
Crashed into the Pentagon building in Washington, D.C.

United Airlines Boeing 757-200 (Flight 93)
Newark, New Jersey to San Francisco, California
Crashed in south-eastern Pennsylvania, 80 miles south-east of Pittsburgh

These are all category "X" airports--what kind of changes can you imagine might be required to airport security to protect you all a little better, if anything? 'Cause this would almost have assisted by someone with access to the aircraft--don't y'all agree??

[FREDA]

RatherBeFlying,

Although it's not remotely relevant, a box cutter isn't exactly a deadly weapon under normal circumstances but it's been pretty effective here. What I was trying to illustrate is the fact that it isn't hard to get such weapons onto a plane.

The policy of cooperating with hijackers will have to be reviewed and maybe we'll all have to take a leaf from El-Al's book and put armed and very highly trained Skymarshalls on every flight. Today's news might have looked very different if these aircraft had had an armed skymarshall on board. It certainly would have taken more that a few blades to take those aircraft.

[ 12 September 2001: Message edited by: FREDA ]

[Helibiggles]

Wakey Wakey Fixed Wing Drivers...
How would you get a weapon onboard an airliner? Well you give one to every passenger with their meal. I've often wondered why meal cutlery is made of steel.
Tragic day for the planet.

[heloplt]

Watched most of the day live...sat absolutely astounded as the second aircraft flew into the building. Today was both a very sad day but a very heart warming day simultaneously.

The anger, hate, and other emotions that were evoked by the scenes of death and destruction were overpowered by those of pride and patriotism.

I saw emergency personnel placing themselves into mortal danger in order to help others and then knew that hundreds of them had died when the buildings came down on top of them. I observed on television hundreds of total strangers helping one another. Saw how orderly people were in this time of crisis.

I saw what is best about our great nation and the common ordinary people that have made it great. I saw the two leaders of Congress stand shoulder to shoulder and forcefully announce the undivided support of the entire Congress for our President and the national defense forces, and voice their determination that this attack would be avenged with every resource of the nation.

My proudest moment was at the end of the speeches by the leaders of Congress, when spontaneously....all of the elected congressional leaders of our nation began to sing "American the Beautiful".

The terrorists have no idea how badly they failed in their attack. They brought us together like no other event has done in my life time.

Proud to be an American tonight...freedom is not free....it costs dearly, but it is worth everything we must pay.

Say a prayer for those that died, that were injured, and for the families that lost loved ones.

[Dark Knight]

To my American colleagues & Friends: my sympathy to your and your fellow Americans. God Bless you, and God Bless America.

We pledge the utmost assistance with the `measured respones'

Dark Knight

[Steepturn]

Frequentboeingflyer, I was thinking if there was anything symbolic about the date, the first thing I thought of was Black September re hijackings in Jordan by Palestinians in '70. Regardless, I lost a good friend of mine who worked at WTC and I hope they bomb the hell out of whoever did this!

[Plastic Bug]

As I indicated previously, I am absolutely horrified and sickened by this event.

Sky Marshalls are a nice idea, but useless under the circumstances, they would not be present in the cockpit when the bad stuff happened.

And who really wants high powered stuff on an airplane anyway?

Better to install a couple of starter pistols in the pilots NAV bags. Something a pilot could discreetly pull out when the bad guys attention was diverted, like looking at the Captain (nothing personal).

A .22 caliber low velocity round would be of particular use. Put one in the bad guys ear and it would just rattle around in his brain.

Sounds horrid, I know, but the mob has been using this method for years.

Bsides, It's them or us.

PB

[Wino]

I am wondering if Isolating the cockpit from the cabin once and for all might not be the answer. Install a Lav near the cockpit and a solid bulkhead between the cabin and the flight deck. Access to the flight deck would be from an outside door only.

Before anyone says there is anything important for apilot to check back there, remember the freighters have no access to the back.

But there is nothing to be gained from passenger access to the cockpit.

Cheers
Wino

[Apollo]

TSB representative Greg Fife reported tonight that the transponders were turned off for the four A/C in question. It's also possible that with the temperature of the fire inside the rubble of the WTC, he stated that the FDR and CVR may not have survived.

It's extreamly unlikely that the crew were alive at the time of impact for the A/C that struck the WTC and Pentagon. It's likely that they were killed prior to entering the New York city area and the Washington D.C. area. A 911 call was placed from an A/C in-flight phone from the United Airlines 767 that struck the second tower but details have yet to be released.

It's time for Americans to Hold their heads high, mourn those who perished, pick-up the pieces and punish those responsible.

RIP

[Slasher]

I too side by the USA today. Ive seen my fair share of horific death in this part of the world but never mass-murder like this.

This IS the real world. Our generation now feels what the previous one felt when Pearl was attacked. In 60 years nothing has changed, and in another 60 years the world will still be as dangerous and deadly.

There are 2 images I will never forget for a very very long time:

* The 767 slamming into WTC #2. To all 4 aircraft pax and crew, may they RIP.

* Palestinians dancing in the streets celebrating. If anyone had any trace of sympathy for Palestine before, thats now gone.

I just hope it will be finaly realised that rhetoric and agreements with these fanatic ratbags just does not work and never has, and that firm force is the only thing these demented trash understand.

On a minor note, I give a nod of respect to that CNN reporter Aaron Brown who covered the WTC collapse from start to finish. This guy was bloodey close to tears most of the time, yet kept his profesionalism and kept doing his job.

Let the US finaly pull off the kid-gloves, hunt down those responsible and get rid of them once and for bloodey all. Forget retoric, respecting geographic boundarys, civil-liberty groups and the UN. Go in, hit hard, and give them and the rest of these potential fanatic luntatics a lesson they will never ever forget.

[Flame Out]

MY SINCEREST CONDOLENCES TO THOSE WHO HAVE SUFFERED TODAY AND MAY THOSE RESPONSIBLE BURN FOR ALL ETERNITY.

GOD BLESS AMERICA.

[Towering Q]

14hrs later and I still find it hard to believe what has happened. It was about 2200hrs local time when a friend called and told me to turn the T.V. on, didn't matter what channel.

Watching that 767 slam into the WTC and seeing both buildings collapse is an experience that I will never forget. I can't begin to imagine what it must have been like for those involved.

I backpacked through that part of the world in 92 and enjoyed Manhattan immensley. Did the open double decker bus thing, climbed the Statue of Liberty and had a ball. I look through my photos and find it difficult to accept that it is the same place.

I think Tony Blair hit the nail on the head. 'Evil must be eradicated.' The time for talk is over. It is hard to supress the feelings of, 'an eye for an eye.'

My thoughts go out to all those who perished and to all those left behind.

From a stunned pilot in outback Oz. :(

[Huck]

I remember watching footage of the explosion at the Olympics in 1996.

A whole crowd of americans stood stunned, staring at the stage for some sign of what was going on. Then in the foreground, there was a small black-haired woman with two children in tow, snaking through the crowd away from the blast. She hurried away as everyone else stood still.

I realized that woman was probably Israeli (or Irish or Londoner). Americans literally didn't realize it was a bomb. I'm afraid we have probably lost that innocence for good....

[ 12 September 2001: Message edited by: Huck ]

[Metro man]

Anyone want to guess where the hijackers on the fourth jet that crashed in Pensylvania might have been targeting ? The White House ,The Capitol building ,nuclear power plant ? What a nightmare

[lymanm]

Unconfirmed (and never to be proved) reports say that the 4th plane, the UAL 757, was heading towards Camp David.

This whole affair seems like a movie, so unreal...who knows what the world will be like now?

Rest in peace

[gengis]

To all friends in America and all fellow pilots around the world, been following the events from base in Singapore and I have no words to express my feelings. Best wishes & a speedy recovery to all who are directly affected by these events. And to all fellow pilots, this is the time for solidarity. What can we do to prevent something like this? I shudder to think of how vulnerable we are especially in this business. There are so many links in the chain of operations. We depend on so many different people in so many different departments to keep the airplanes flying. Don't even know where to begin sorting these cowards out. I know one thing - nobody's gonna visit my flight deck for a while, although that's not gonna do much good. Fly safe, guys, and keep it safe.

[99er]

Makes it pretty difficult to concentrate on your own petty problems when something like this happens.
May the retaliation be a global and brutal one.
A dark day.

[dkusa]

It's 9:25pm here in LA on the 11th..CNN has just received video of the first aircraft hit on the the WTC.....can't stop looking in disbelief. So incredibly sad.

[Snake Hips]

I've been watching CNN and their coverage of this awful tragedy is excellent. I was a bit disturbed to see them report impending
(repeat impending) execution of serach warrants on homes in South Florida based on pax manifest information. Am I missing the point but shouldn't that have been subject to blackout at least until after the event?

RIP

[AA SLF]

Terribly sad tonight (ORD suburb) because I lost a friend from my company today on AA-11 BOS-LAX.

Pray for those souls who lost their lives today.

Eternal dammnation on those who committed these acts!!

dAAvid -

ps - there are no smilies to express my feelings of both sadness and anger.

[Lee]

My sincere condolences to the families, relatives and friends of all those who perished in that mad attack. I wish all those injured a speedy recovery.

Capt Lee

[NCC-1701e]

Condolences to the family of all those who lost their lives. This barbaric act couldn't have been done by human beings. Though i am not American, my sincerest sympathy for all of you. Like it or not, i think these non-humans have acheived their objective. Your freedom will be sacrificed for security.

Please remember, seek Justice, not revenge. Pride is not a virtue, humility is. For every action, there is an opposite reaction. For every swing, there'll be a counter swing, only the swing seems to be getting bigger and bigger. How big the swing is gonna get, nobody knows yet but i pray there will be no war as it will cause more senseless pain and suffering.

[ 12 September 2001: Message edited by: NCC-1701e ]