Jeppesen Skybound II Woes

[Keef]

We upgraded the group trusty Arrow III with a GNS430 earlier this year, and are delighted. But of course, the nav database needs to be kept up to date.

The "recommended" approach is to buy a spare datacard and a "Skybound II" card writer, and update monthly via the Internet. That, I thought I could do.

Catch 1: the Skybound II card writer is designed for a laptop, so is PCMCIA - and my PC isn't. Solution: a PCMCIA adapter called Actiontec PC750, highly recommended by Jeppesen. Problem: it's not sold in the UK - and most US suppliers haven't heard of foreign. It took a few weeks to find a US firm who would ship - but the device duly arrived last month. Phew! Now that we have a PCMCIA slot, let's order the stuff from Jepp.

Catch 2: Jeppesen use FedEx, who think England is in Spain, so my first card and Skybound got delivered somewhere in Barcelona - nobody knows where, except that Mr S Ello signed for it. Three weeks and some arguing later: Jepp sent me a new one, via UPS. That arrived this morning.

Catch 3: it doesn't work. Trying to install the software causes the Windows XP "blue screen of death" - "the machine has been stopped to protect it from damage".

So, still no card writing. Eventually phoned Jepp in Colorado; helpful tech expert walked through the settings, and decided this is a basket case. Sent a "flash update" for the Skybound II, just in case, but this made no difference. Must be my PC... try reinstalling Win XP and Service Pack 1.

The solution appears to be one of:

1. Buy a laptop with a PCMCIA slot or two, for updating the datacard.

2. Send the stuff back to Jepp and go for the monthly card mailed from Jepp (expensive!).

3. Buy a new PC and try again.

Has anyone else managed to get the Skybound II to work with a desktop PC using the PC750 PCMCIA adapter, under Win XP? Any suggestions?

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Keef,

Glad to hear you were able to get the GNS430.

Go to:

Start >> Control Panel >> System >> Hardware Tab >> Device Manager Button >> View >> Resourses by Connection >> IRQ

Please post all the IRQs and every device on each IRQ.

Take Care,

Richard

[Keef]

Hi Richard.

These are the IRQ assignments - the Jepp device plugs into the PCMCIA slots on the Texas Instruments Cardbus Controller. The system doesn't see it when I plug it in, and any attempt to load a driver for it, with it plugged in or not, crashes Windows.

(ISA) 0 System timer
(ISA) 1 Standard 101/102 Key or Microsoft Natural PS/2 Keyboard
(ISA) 3 Communications Port (COM2)
(ISA) 4 Communications Port (COM1)
(ISA) 6 Standard floppy disk controller
(ISA) 8 System CMOS/realtime clock
(ISA) 9 Microsoft ACPI Compliant System
(ISA) 12 Microsoft PS/2 Port Mouse (IntelliPoint)
(ISA) 13 Numeric date processor
(ISA) 14 Primary IDE Channel
(ISA) 15 Secondary IDE Channel
(PC1) 9 Advansys SCSI Host Adapter
(PC1) 9 Creative SB Live! Value (WDM)
(PC1) 9 LSI Logic 53C810 Device
(PC1) 9 Lucent WinModem
(PC1) 9 Rage Fury/Xpert 128/Xpert 2000
(PC1) 9 Texas Instruments PCI 1225 CardBus Controller
(PC1) 9 Texas Instruments PCI 1225 CardBus Controller
(PC1) 9 V1A Rev 5 or later USB Universal Host Controller

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Keef,

I am not surprised your system crashes at all.

Here are your problems:

(ISA) 9 Microsoft ACPI Compliant System
(PC1) 9 Advansys SCSI Host Adapter
(PC1) 9 Creative SB Live! Value (WDM)
(PC1) 9 LSI Logic 53C810 Device
(PC1) 9 Lucent WinModem
(PC1) 9 Rage Fury/Xpert 128/Xpert 2000
(PC1) 9 Texas Instruments PCI 1225 CardBus Controller
(PC1) 9 Texas Instruments PCI 1225 CardBus Controller
(PC1) 9 V1A Rev 5 or later USB Universal Host Controller

You have everything on IRQ9.

First SB Live! has to be on its own IRQ, (it cannot share at all), and that IRQ needs to be IRQ5.

Then you have your Video Card, Modem, USB Controller and SCSI Adapter all on the same IRQ, which just happens to be IRQ 9 too.

All these devices are on the same IRQ as your PCMCIA device.

There is something very wrong with your IRQs. When you installed WinXP, did you load your motherboard drivers? It seems the PCI Bus was not setup properly.

I think that is why the PCMCIA card is not working. If we can straighten out your IRQs, your PCMCIA will work.

If you could list details on your motherboard I will link your motherboard drivers for you.

Take Care,

Richard

P.S. If you are not using COM1 or COM2, you could disable them in the BIOS to free up two IRQs.

[Evo]

I am not surprised your system crashes at all.

...

You have everything on IRQ9.


Richard, this doesn't mean what you think it means. IRQ sharing is normal on Windows XP - see http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q314068


Windows takes advantage of the ACPI features of the motherboard, including advanced PCI sharing. The PCI bus uses IRQ 9 for IRQ steering. This feature lets you add more devices without generating IRQ conflicts.


The first user of IRQ 9 on Keefs resource list is (ISA) 9 Microsoft ACPI Compliant System, that explains the rest.

[ORAC]

Firsly, make sure you have the correct driver installed. See point 10 here (http://www.jeppesen.com/wlcs/index.jsp?section=support&content=technical_skybound2_tips.html#14). Quote:

"Windows installs the incorrect driver for Skybound II (ex. Intel/M-Systems FlashCard) **The below process and associated screens are generic and you may not see the exact same items in the Device Manager.**

These step apply to Windows 95B, 98, 98SE, and ME. Windows....XP users will see similar screens but will need to choose "Centennial" as the driver manufacturer and "Linear Flash Memory (FlashTools)" as the driver instead of "FlashTools MTD (Series 2)" as described below.

Checking the Actiontec site, they don't support XP. Psism (http://www.psism.com/reader.htm), however, seem to be able to supply a driver if you speak to them nicely. Or they may be able to sell you an alternative internal PCI or IDE card reader which supports the Linear Flash card used in the Skybound.

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Evo,

this doesn't mean what you think it means. IRQ sharing is normal on Windows XP

Nice in theory, but in practice it does not always work that way. There are devices that can share IRQs, but others that cannot. SB Live! cannot share IRQs and has to be on IRQ5 in order to function properly. Modems and sound cards cannot share the same IRQ. GeForce4 Ti's and FX's cannot share IRQs, etc..........

In this case, Keef's IRQs are a mess. He has every device on the same IRQ, that means that WinXP did not install properly in his computer.

If Keef's motherboard is APIC Compliant, we need to enable it in the BIOS and reinstall WinXP so his HAL and IRQs are setup properly. If his motherboard is not APIC Compliant, then at the very least we need to load the latest motherboard drivers.

Take Care,

Richard

[Evo]

My T30 Thinkpad has 14 different devices on IRQ 9 - including two Texas Instruments PCI CardBus controllers. In the Win2k/XP world IRQ 9 should be overloaded, so I'm not convinced that Keefs XP installation is broken just because there is a lot on IRQ 9.

TBH, if the hardware cannot share IRQs then the hardware is broken... ;)

[Keef]

I was assured when I got this PC that XP puts everything ACPI-compliant on IRQ9. The control panel doesn't allow me to change the IRQ assignments on any of those IRQ9 items anyway. I can play with the resource settings on the items not on IRQ9, but those that are on IRQ9 are locked. I could go back into the BIOS and start setting things manually, but last time I did that (trying to get a joystick to work), I ran out of IRQs and couldn't have all the peripherals connected.

I'd not had any "XP blue screen of death" problems previously, not even with the two SCSI interface cards. One of those is a "bootable" SCSI, and that does its startup tests just fine.

The test routines that I have all say "all is well" apart from the Skybound, which doesn't exist according to any test I can run.

Both COM ports are in use - one for the mouse (which won't coexist on USB with the ADSL modem and the joystick - I can have any two of the three on USB), and the other for the interface to the GPS3Pilot.

The plan for later this week is to do a reinstall of XP Pro and the service packs, so I'll see what that does. I'm making very sure that everything significant is backed up first, and that I have all the "activation codes" for all the stuff on the machine first, just in case it ends up with a massive reinstall.

Psism's website says the Actiontec PC750 is OK with XP - and certainly, Jeppesen recommend it for XP. It installed with no trouble, but since I have no other PCMCIA devices here, I can't test it to see. The driver installed for it is a Windows XP one (pcmcia.sys) and is digitally signed by Microsoft.

The Helpdesk at Jeppesen confirm I have the right driver for the Skybound II - they even sent me a patch to update it to be sure - but it crashes the machine all the same.

Sounds like nobody else has been here - I'll report back after reinstalling XP and service packs.

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Evo,

You cannot compare a notebook computer to a desktop. With a notebook, everything is on the motherboard, either in the northbridge or the southbridge. So you would see a lot of devices all on the same IRQ. A desktop is difference, since it has a full PCI Bus.

(With a notebook computer, every component is tested for compatibility when the notebook is in the design phase. With a desktop, there are an infinite amount of combinations due to all the hardware available out there for it. All hardware has its own unique needs. The trick is know what they are. That is not always easy.)

Keef,

Before you do the install again. Please list the make and model of the motherboard. If the computer is from a major computer maker, then the make and model of the computer. (From there I can pull the information I need.)

Do not confuse APIC (Advanced Programmable Interrupt Controller) (http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/hwdev/platform/proc/IO-APIC.mspx) with ACPI (Advanced Configuration and Power Interface) (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/home/using/productdoc/en/default.asp?url=/windowsxp/home/using/productdoc/en/pwrmn_acpi_overview.asp).

Take Care,

Richard

[Keef]

Hi Richard,

I think the reinstall (or "install-over") of Win XP Pro is going to be necessary because I'm now detecting other strange behaviour - presumably something corrupted somewhere.

The motherboard is an Asus P3V4X, with the BIOS flashed to level P3V4X105, downloaded from the Asus website on 29/7/2001.

I checked for later updates a while ago and found none.

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Keef,

I know the P3V4X well. It is the old Apollo Pro 133A Chipset. When you install WinXP you need to also load the VIA Hyperion 4in1 Drivers (http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=2) for the motherboard.

Also try putting SB Live! in PCI Slot4 and set the IRQ in the BIOS for that Slot to IRQ5. (That PCI Slot does not share IRQs.)

Take Care,

Richard

P.S. That board does not support APIC so give the VIA Drivers a shot before you do the Fresh install on WinXP. I just want to see what happens to your IRQs.

[Keef]

Well, I've installed the Hyperion drivers, and that made no apparent difference.

The Control Panel doesn't offer the option of changing IRQs on any of those PCI devices - I haven't moved the sound card from slot 3 to slot 4 yet, but will try that this evening.

Meanwhile ... I've ordered a new copy of XP Pro which should arrive in the morning (I'm beginning to have doubts about the one that came with the machine), but I'm told it's a "new install" copy and won't work as upgrade or fix. I remember hearing that before (was it Win 98?) and having to rename win.com to something else to fox it.

Is there a similar trick with XP, or will a "new installation" copy fix a damaged one? I certainly don't want to wipe the machine and start again!

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Keef,

With WinXP you can do either a repair or a fresh install on top of an old install without needing to rename anything.

Take Care,

Richard

[Keef]

Thanks, Richard. That's what I thought, but the chap where I ordered it said otherwise. Salesmen!

I'll let you know what happens next. Now to try to move a soundcard down one slot.

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Keef,

If you have any questions, you can call me at work. I will be here for a while yet. ;)

Take Care,

Richard

[Keef]

Hello everyone! Well, I'm back ... sort of.

I swapped over the SCSI card in PCI4 and the soundcard in PCI3, and rebooted. The machine asked for the driver disk for the PCMCIA device (yes!), loaded some stuff from that, and crashed to blue-screen-of-death. Windows wouldn't start at all after that - just gave a message about missing drivers.

I tried to reinstall XP, and it refused. A long night followed...

Many hours later, with some brilliant advice from WCollins, I'm back, with the Win XP config I had before (more or less). I can access the Internet, and my Word, Excel, etc documents are there. Phew! Lots of stuff is temporarily missing, but I have a shrewd idea where it will be...

The cards are back where they were, but instead of all the PCI cards being on IRQ9, they are on several different IRQs, there is no "ACPI Compliant System" and I no longer have a working sound card, second SCSI card (the one for the scanner), PCMCIA adapter, or joystick.

Anyone know how to get the thing back to the "all on IRQ9" setup? That worked, apart from the Jepp card writer, which I've decided is probably faulty.

[Keef]

Whew! By dint of perseverance and lots of plugging and unplugging, I've got the machine virtually back as it was on Wednesday before I started. The BIOS for PCI3 is "locked" to IRQ5, the sound card is in PCI3, and CP says the sound card is on IRQ9 like everything else.

I've only got one SCSI card in there now, so I don't know how CD writing will be - it used to object to having a scanner on the same bus. If it still does, I'll put back the other SCSI card for the scanner.

Skybound still doesn't appear anywhere when I plug it in. Might be faulty!

Still not got the "upgrade" of XP - the Post Office is on strike :(

[Naples Air Center, Inc.]

Keef,

All on IRQ9 was a fluke, and that it worked, even more of a fluke.

When you have as many PCI cards as you do, you need to remove just about all the PCI Cards before the install of WinXP. Once WinXP is installed, and all the drivers for the Motherboard, Video Card, and Sound Card are loaded. Then you start by adding the rest of the cards one at a time and loading the Drivers for them.

That is the best way to install WinXP on a Legacy System.

Question: When you go Start >> Turn Off Computer >> Turn Off Does the computer turn off on its own, or do you need to switch the power off manually? (If it shuts down on its own, you computer is running ACPI Compliant and you can go to the Power Settings under the Screen Saver Screen and Setup your timers for turning off your hardware.)

From Microsoft:

To create a new power scheme

Open Power Options in Control Panel.

In the Turn off monitor, Turn off hard disks, System standby, and System hibernates lists on the Power Schemes tab, select the time settings you want.

Under Power Schemes, click Save As, and then type a name for the power scheme. The new scheme is added to the Power Schemes list.


Note

To open Power Options, click Start, click Control Panel, click Performance and Maintenance, and then click Power Options.

To delete a power scheme, select it, and then click Delete.

Using Power Options in Control Panel, you can adjust any power management option that your computer's unique hardware configuration supports. Because these options may vary widely from computer to computer, the options described may differ from what you see. Power Options automatically detects what is available on your computer and shows you only the options that you can control.

Here are some of the drivers you need for you hardware:

VIA Hyperion 4in1 Drivers (http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=2)

ATI Windows XP Display Driver (http://mirror.ati.com/support/drivers/winxp/winxpr1286133279.html)

Sound Blaster Live! Value (http://us.creative.com/support/downloads/download2.asp?dlcentric=80&centric=4856&ProductName=Sound+Blaster+Live!+Value&OS=10&OSName=Windows+XP) (If that does not work, you can access it from here Sound Blaster Live! DriverPack (http://us.creative.com/support/downloads/download.asp))

LSI Logic 53C810 SCSI 2 Drivers (http://support.megaraid.com/support/dlverify1.cfm?DLFile=/support/dlcenter1/windows_aspi_10701.zip&InpDrvID=158)

Advansys SCSI Host Adapter Drivers (http://www.advansys.com/support/advdownload.htm)

Take Care,

Richard

P.S. Please list your new IRQs.

[Keef: I was in the middle of this post when you posted you last post, so we cross posted.]

[Timothy]

Keef

Would you like to meet somewhere in between (Biggin maybe) tomorrow, you bring your PC and SkyBound and I will bring mine and we can diagnose whose what is working?

W

...or you fly to FOS or Redhill and I'll pick you up...the Aztec is STILL in dock.

[Keef]

After consultation with higher authority, the approved plan is that I drive over tomorrow (she's "on duty"). To Wales Sunday morning to meet famille early pm.

Will bring Jepp cardwriter and my sub details so can write the new card for the aeroplane if my writer works. (Not going to do that if the writer doesn't, cos I'll argue for the sub not starting till...)

Meanwhile, PC is back to normal, has put everything on IRQ9 - even the "Bios locked to IRQ5" soundcard. Boots and shuts down a lot faster than it used to.

New XP still not arrived - presumably in a strikebound mailbag somewhere. Will wait till we get back from Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau to do that.

[Timothy]

Well, Keef and I spent several hours faffing around with different cards, different card readers, different CDs and different laptops and came to the conclusion that SkyBoundII simply doesn't work on XP Pro.

W

[Keef]

... and that Jepp had managed to take my money for a subscription, but not to set one up. Mutter...

[Timothy]

Jepp have sent a patch that makes SkyBoundII work on XP pro...and it works:D

Would have been nice if they had put the f*cking thing on their website and saved Keef and me about 10 man hours of effort and a whole load of petrol and pollution.

If anyone wants the patch ask me or Keef.

W