US v all other countries pilot exams

[spudskier]

so in the states, few people take get their ATP certificate before joining an airline or other flying company. they usually get it along with a type rating of the aircraft they have been hired to or hafe been flying. Most get their private, instrument, commercial and multi, then possibly ATP or CFI, CFI-I and MEI

just curious how the sequence of events works over there.

[Speevy]

Hi Spud Skier,
In U.S. it works in a quite different way:

1st step PPL
(between 35-40 hrs total time but most of the people get it with an average of 45, the big difference is that pilots are required to demonstrate proficiency in what they call ground reference manouvers, quite challenging)

2nd step IR
(after 25 or 50 hrs of solo navigation, depends on which type of course you are taking, you can start the training which will include 15 hrs of instruction and a total of 40 hrs of instument time)

3d step CPL
(before being able to do flying exam you will need to have 250 hrs total even if by doing a different course, part 141, you can get the commercial with less than 250 hrs)
This step usually will include also a multi engine license, if appropriate training will be received, but in case you would be able to get a CPL without a MER.

At this point you can try to look for a job as FO or as PIC for operations like Bush flying (an hell of experience mostly if you do it in Alaska!!) or Crop dusting, Banner towing, Parachuting, every thing that will not involve the transport of more than 19 pax and with aircraft were the type rating it's not required.

You can also try do get your CFI and start instructing, then upgrade to CFII and if you have a MER you can also obtain a MEI (of course after completing the relative course)

To be able to get the ATPL you will have to have reached a minimun of 1500 hrs total (and many other requirements quite similar to the JAA exept the 500 hrs multi crew) and after passing a flying test.
You will be able to do the writen before that but it will expire after 2 years!!

Remember U.S. system it's really flexible, there are many option but the way I explained, in my opinion it's the most efficient.

For each step will have to take at least a writen test (for CFI there 2 or 3 I am not sure) a oral exam and a flying exam (exept MEI where the writen it's not required!!)

I hope this helped and if you need any other info about the FAA sistem I advise you to look at
www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/cfrhtml_00/Title_14/14cfr61_00.html

here you will find something that is equivalent to the JAA FCL home page.

Good luck and Good Flying

[spudskier]

hehe thnx, actually I was wondering how it worked in the U.K. just a curiosity. I am actually very well into the US system being a few weeks away from my instrument and a few months away from my partially finished commercial (just they way they do it at my university) gettting my multi and high performance sign-off immediately following then my CFI.

I just hear so much talk to ATPLs for europeans then a multi, or whatever. I know it's a little different over there, just curious so I can better follow along with certain threads.

[Old King Coal]

Another difference is that sitting ground exams under JAR's the questions and answers have not previously been published for public consumption, i.e. in Europe the first time we find out the exam questions & answers are when we're sitting in the examination hall.

Putting it another way, i.e for those who don't know the FAA system. When you do the ground exams under the FAR's they very kindly publish all the exam questions AND THE ANSWERS to go with them. All you've got to do is to memorise which answer goes with which question, and you should pass - all of which I found a bit of a no brainer ( certainly when compared to UK CAA 'penalty marked' CPL & ATPL exams of the mid 80's ).

See: FAA Airman Knowledge Test Question Bank (http://afs600.faa.gov/srchFolder.asp?Category=airmanknowledge)

That said, I've always wished the the JAA would publish an equivalent to the FAA AIM (http://www2.faa.gov/atpubs/aim) and I wish the JAA could come up with a web site that's as easy to use as the FAA's (http://www1.faa.gov/index.htm)

Ah well, 'Vive la difference' - as they say in France.

[redsnail]

I reckon Oz falls somewhere in between. It's been a while since I have done any of their exams so please excuse the finer errors.
PPL exam.
Flying is up to GFPT. General flying progress test. (aka restricted PPL)
Then do some navs, voila, full PPL.
After this you can add a Night rating or an IR. IR requires another theory exam (80% pass mark).
CPL theory.
CPL training.
ATPL theory (if you wish, no requirement unless you want to fly bigger stuff).
After the CPL you can add an Instructor rating etc.
ATPL flying? Just get the hours required, usually the most difficult is the 100 hours night. No multi crew time etc required.
Most folk usually get as many twin command hours as possible (eg min of 500 hours) because to fulfill the requirements of CAO 82.3 (low capacity airlines - less than 38 seats) you must have that command time prior to getting command on a Bandit/Dash 8 (1-200) etc. Note, in Oz, you cannot log command in any form from the RHS unless you are an instructor (and instructing) or a check captain approved to sit there.

The exams are multi choice now and the venues used to be dedicated rooms but now the exams are available through the internet at designated portals etc.

It is possible to do all the training to CPL (VFR) full time. This brings the hours down to 150 hrs. I *think* the "part time" syllabus for the CPL is 200 hours. This does not include the IR.
All details can be found on the CASA website.

[FlyingForFun]

In the UK, probably the most common sequence would be:

- PPL
- Hour building
- ATPL exams
- CPL
- Multi-engine IR
- Multi-crew course

You now have what is colloquially known as a "frozen ATPL", but is actually just a CPL/IR, and you can apply for jobs as first officer.

When you reach 1500 hours (as well as several other requirements, the main one being lots of multi-pilot time) you can upgrade to an ATPL. No exams, etc, required because you've done them all already.

I think I prefer the US system on the whole, but I can see the merits in both systems.

FFF
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