RAF height requirements

[fireflybob]

My 16 year old son is showing quite an interest in flying for the RAF but is currently 5 ft 11 ins tall and still growing!

Can anyone let me know what the upper height limit is for aicrew in the RAF these days? Is it the same for the Navy? Thanks for any help.

[Jump jump John]

Believe its 6'4" for the RAF, don't know about the Navy (but i think its different).
However, don't quote me on that (or anything else!)
J3

[008]

I don't think there is an actual standing height limit, as no aircraft are flown standing upright. However it is all about dimensions, and if you use the upper limits of the following measurements, you get a theoretical max height.

Sitting height (mm) 865 - 1010
Buttock - Knee 560 - 660
Buttock - Heel 1000 - 1200

[newswatcher]

There used to be a difference in the maximum height requirement between "fighter" and "other" pilots. Something to do with allowing enough space between the helmet and canopy to pull the ejector seat trigger.

Are "fighter" pilots generally shorter?

[BEagle]

No - it's their willies which are shorter!!

[Eagle 1]

On a similar note......does any body know the minimum dimensions for pilot?

oh....and the minimum weight.

Thanx guys

<img src="smile.gif" border="0"> Eagle 1 <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[Dan Winterland]

Minimum dimension - 7 inches!!!!

BEagle, is that why you stopped flying the F4?

[ 13 January 2002: Message edited by: Dan Winterland ]</p>

[BEagle]

Yes - above max permitted limit, I'm afraid!!

[raytofclimb]

I'm 6ft 1(and a quarter) inches and have relatively short legs compared to body length. In the Tincan, and now Hawk, my seat still has to be right down and the rudder pedals all the way back. This is getting into the realms of forming a gap between my thigh and seat which would not be good for my femur should I use the exploding furniture. There are few of my mates who are considerably bigger but many have big variations in limb length.

In my UAS days, many girls were not accepted for lack of functional reach and a good mate who was sponsored and nearly finished EFT could not go FJ because of excessive thigh length. Now flys spinning whirly death machines.

Back to the question, let the lad apply and if he is too big then you cant help it. There are plenty more hurdles and hoops!

Good luck

Ray

[walleye]

i'm going to OASC in december and am crapping my pants that i might be to tall for pilot. i went to cranwell for a sixth form scholarship application and my dimensions were fine then, but i'm worried i might have grown a little. does anyone know what the height limit is - assuming all other measurements are within limits? i'm 6"3....

[rockmav]

Height only really matters for FJ, i think the upper limit is about 6ft 3 for that, but doesnt really matter for multi's or helo's. So you may be in luck!

Here are the key measurement boundaries for Pilots :
Functional Reach (Lenth of Arms with Fist Clenched) 720mm - 900mm
Sitting Height: 865-990mm
Buttock to Knee: 560-660mm
Buttock to Heel: 1000-1200mm

You should be fine unless you've got some freakishly over proportioned limbs. Try not to worry about the medical side of things, its out of your control, there are far more important things at OASC to worry about!!

All the best with it though mate, try to keep smiling and be yourself!

[FFP]

Unless things have changed I thought we only recruited those who were able to fly all aircraft ? If that's still the case then being too big for an F3 means that you won't be accepted for pilot full stop.

6"3 is big but am sure others that are in are a similar height.

Plus it's the old hip to knee distance that gets most.

The advice is correct though, medical is out of your hands.

[BATS]

I can think of several 'stretched' aviators over the years including a 6'6'' Nav on the Buccaneer (made the standard Bucc dwarfs in the 165 club look rather short), a 4'30'' Nimrod, and subsequently Rotary, Pilot. I am a 6'3'' streak of p*ss and no-one has ever suggested that I am too big to fit in the cockpit of any FJ or multi.

B

[Feck]

If all your constituent components were at the upper edge of the bracket you'd be 6'4". There's no height limit as such as far as I know.

Good luck.

[sarboy w****r]

Ha! Clearly anyone under 6' 4" is genetically inferior! (Well, at the very least those under 6')...

I am just under 6 ' 5", and I'm a rotary pilot (recruited in late 90s, so not some selection aberration from WWII...). My medical records also state that I fit all aircraft requirements (FJ/multi/rotary). I have been in some FJ cockpits and I'm not too sure about keeping my legs in the event of an ejection, but everything else is fine. I admit to not sitting up as straight as I could have done when I went for selection, but they gave me a cadetship anyway. There were a few raised eyebrows at the final medical prior to graduating from IOT, but just ignoring the docs seemed to do just fine.

Squirrel (Basic Rotary) is tight to fit in to, but the Squirrel course is only 4 months long, so the discomfort only lasts a short period of time. The Griffin (Advanced Rotary) has loads of room (the seats and pedals all adjust). All the frontline helicopters I've been in have loads of room - more than enough for someone as short as you!

Apart from doing as I did, there isn't a lot you can do to pass the medical - either you meet the requirements or you don't. Don't stress. I suggest you brush up on your distance/speed/time calculations, and your answers to all the questions that will come up at interview.

Best of luck with selection.

SBW

[LOMCEVAK]

Walleye,

To re-iterate what has been said above, do not despair! I am 6' 3" also, and I am within the size limits for all RAF aircraft. I think that amongst the ejection seat aircraft, the Canberra is the most critical with a buttock - knee limit of 650 mm (the one exception to the 660 mm quoted by rockmav). However, I doubt if any new first tourists will be sent to the Canberra. Apart from this, the Hawk is probably the tightest squeeze, especially if you have stout legs, as your shins can rub on the bottom of the instrument panel. However, at 6' 3" you should be OK. And I can concur that there is no overall height limit, just limits on individual parts.

One other factor to consider is weight. There is a maximum weight for each type of ejection seat. Fortunately, it is often possible to sort this out if slightly overweight! If you wish to discuss precise numbers on this, send me a personal message and I will find out if there may be any potential problems.

[gr00vy]

Hi,
After searching past posts I found many people asking if they were too tall/what the cutoff maximum height for pilot is. I am on the short side (5ft 6) and don't know if I should consider a career in military aviation. Is there a minimum height? I know it depends on how long the thigh is, etc.. But does anyone know a general figure?

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

gr00vy,

You are quite right. You are a bit on the short side! However, don't let that put you off. As you rightly point out there are a variety of measurements that will determine your 'fitness' to fly, so why don't you go to your nearest AFCO and ask them?

As a rule, I would suggest that 5'6" is about as short as pilots get, but again, some people have long legs and short bodies or vice versa.

As a guideline, if you want to get measured by your Mum/mate/bloke in the street, the measurements that you should have (but don't quote me!) are:

reach - 720mm
sitting height - 865mm
buttock to knee - 560mm
buttock to heel - 1000mm

Good luck with the tape measure!

:ok:

[Speed Twelve]

grOOvy

I'm a short-ar$e, 5' 5''. Had my medical cat deferred at OASC due to being too short (at 16) for pilot (old 30 hr Flying Scholarship actually). Went back a couple of years later having grown not one millimetre and magically met all the measurement requirements; my functional reach was recorded as exactly 720mm.

Just go for it, you have nothing to lose.

ST

[Wyler]

You'll be fine. The ME fleet are about to introduce the Helmet Mounted Pedal System (HMPS), which allows you to operate the rudders through power of thought. Trials are ongoing but early indications are encouraging. By thinking 'Hot Dessert' you get left rudder and by thinking 'Choice of Main Course' you select right rudder.
The beauty for you of course, is that you can now remove the seat and stand up, therefore, height is not a problem. The only downside is that the prototype helmet weighs 70Kg and only comes in one colour.
Good luck.

[Crashed&Burned]

The ideal fighter pilot shape is roughly that of a chimpanzee, so your height should be just right. How do you feel about bananas..?

[coolrunnings63]

As an FTE i have been given the opportunity to fly in a Hawk T1 and i am concerned that i may be too tall at 6 foot 4 inches and potentially being in exceedance of the other measurement. This is likely to be a one off event as a passenger.
What are the rules and are passengers measured?

[Busta]

I'm six feet four inches, normally proportioned, and managed to fit into Chipmunks, JPs, Varsitys, Vulcans, Hunters, Hawks and F4's; the only things I was too big for were Gnats and Buccaneers.

Nothing matters very much, most things don't matter at all.

[camelspyyder]

Go for it! I did one last year and it was epic.

the pre sortie medical didn't involve anthro measurements so that shouldn't be an issue - there's an upper lim on weight for the bang seat though.

Have fun!!:ok:

[Wander00]

OK, what is an "FTE"?

[GlobalNav]

FTE = "Full Time Extra"

(or if you will, "flight test engineer")

[Wander00]

aah, very many thanks for the decode

[JTIDS]

In the current climate I'd be very surprised if your pre-flight medical didn't include anthro measurements. The doc's know what fits and what doesn't, and if your proportions are right, being a bean pole won't stop you flying.

Hope you do fit and enjoy the trip!

[kintyred]

JTIDS,


"The docs know what fits".

After some additions to the Chinook cockpit the doc had to sign each if us off as being able to fit in amongst the new equipment. The conversation went something like

Doc. Can you reach all the switches?

Me. (After brief consideration of whether I still wanted to be in a job or not)
Yes

Doc signs off a piece of paper for my logbook and the next candidate steps forward.

[devonianflyer]

Good luck to you mate, I'm 6'4" (and a bit) and was chopped/re streamed out of fast jet training as I didn't fit in the hawk! It's all in the individual's proportions rather than a specific overall height. I fell short on the butt-knee length.

As previously said I'm sure the medical will include anthro so best of luck to you! Turns out going multis was the best thing that could have happened to me in hindsight!

[MAINJAFAD]

devonianflyer and camelspyyder are spot on about overall proportions and weight.

Overall butt to knee length (measured in the sitting position from the point where your back touches the seat to the tip of your kneecap) and weight are the show stoppers on the medical for a pax flight in a Hawk. Too long in length and you will smash you knees on the instrument panel if you have to eject and your weight in flying kit has to fall within the limits that can be set on the seat's Pitch Control Unit which adjusts the thrust line of the seat's rocket motor through the seat (and your) center of mass. Can't remember what the limits were but I was around 15 stone and 6 foot when I (very much just) passed the medical to do a trip out of Valley in late 93 (Having a 36 inch waist and a Wraf sized backside didn't help). The guy who set the ride up for me tried to get a ride himself only to be overweight for the seat and failed the medical.:ugh::ugh:

[GipsyMagpie]

Its all in an AP....1269a I think. Find a trusty mil type and find it on DII. But its not the absolute gospel. I don't technically "fit" in one type but I am still signed off to fly it. Also look in the mrp/aso/fob under pax flying.

[JTIDS]

Kintryd, they have become a tad stricter on enforcing the bang seat limits these days, there are quite a few people who used to fit in various cockpits who have now being told they don't...

[oldmansquipper]

IMHO: All Anthropometric limits are exactly that...limits. Any MO clearing (or not) the pax for flight has a clear duty of care to ensure the pax is within those limits.

Simples

[Scottie66]

I tried to get Stuart Broad (the England cricketer) a flight in a Hawk T1. In the event it did not happen because his ortho measurements were in excess of those laid down - he was 1mm over the buttock-knee length permitted. Whilst the RAF might (and I stress might) have been willing to take the risk, Broad's management were not. It was not his weight or his height that was the limfac.

[Scottie66]

No idea why I said 'ortho' in the previous post...doh! Obviously meant anthropometric. Broad is 6ft 5 inches btw and his height was deemed okay....just!

[Davita]

Devonianflyer quote/Davita edited...I'm 6'4" (and a bit) and was chopped! It's all in the individual's proportions rather than a specific overall height. I fell short on the butt-knee length....Unqoute.

I can't imagine what your butt-knee length was before you got chopped.:E

I wish you had let me know as, at 5'5", I'm a bit short from the butt down and could sure have used that extension you chucked!!!:ok:

[Runaway Gun]

Whenever I visited Valley for backseat Hawk trips, I was anthro'd by the doctors every time (and had to provide urine tests as well). Ironically first wave sorties were never possible due to this delay, as well as the Doctor being required to check the helmet fit (which was just fitted by Safety Equipment specialists).

This was despite being current medical aircrew on other types. I still remained only 6ft tall.

[Background Noise]

No dial your weight on Mk 10B for Hawk.. (or anything else these days?)


There certainly is a weight setting for the Hawk T1 seat, as mentioned above. That is not the limiting factor though, it's overall occupant weight.

Coolrunning,

Sounds like you might be close to weight and height limits. If you are marginal on weight it will help if you go once they are out of immersion suits. I had to cancel a trip once with a chap who had been passed at the medical but after we started I couldn't get full deflection of the controls because his legs were in the way. Anyway, the best place to ask is not here but via however has arranged the trip.

God luck.

[Four Types]

I am 6' 3"....I am a 33" leg......so I am long in the backbone. I was on F3s when we went through a phase of measuring us lanky back seat types after a recent BOI. The rigorous testing involved sitting in the back seat (where I had been flying for some time anyway) and the Doc using some high tech equipment ( a cardboard tube!!) to check the gap between knee and panel. Being long in the back I passed this test easily, 2 others failed (experienced F3 chaps). One went to multis and the other pulled rank and remained.

Eventually ended up on AWACS where a long backbone was handy when reaching into the freezer cabinets for a frozen curry!!

Its all in the dimensions

[P6 Driver]

I'm confused regarding post 14.

If Stuart Broad (or any prospective passenger) attended a medical, surely the doctor would have a clear "Yes" or "No" as to whether the person could fly. I don't understand the "might" part of it.

If the doctor signed him as fit to fly in all medical respects, he could have flown. If he had to ask his mangement company/agent whether they would give permission, that's his problem and perhaps he shouldn't have wasted the doctors time as he could have asked them prior to the medical being booked.

Just a thought.

[Scottie66]

P6 Driver,

Broady never got to the pre-flight medical stage. Because he is so tall I looked at the anthro stuff first and that was the "end of'

[P6 Driver]

Thanks for that - I see what you meant now.

[wannaberafpilot]

I'm currently about 172/173cm (5ft 8) in height. I recently watched a video about some guy going all the way through the application process and right at the very end when he had his medical done, he was told he was too tall (in sitting height). Now I know I'm not going to have that problem, but I'm worried about the opposite! I know the RAF work off limb lengths and anthropometrics, but I'm curious as to whether there are any other small pilots in the RAF?

I'm currently going through my application process but it's still very early days, and I'm stressing over every little thing that could go wrong, even though I know it's out of my control

[Tankertrashnav]

I am pretty sure that at 5'8" you don't need to worry about being too short, unless things have changed dramatically since when I was in. I certainly remember chaps shorter than that - one Herc pilot I knew was known as "wee Jock" (guess where he came from). Don't think he was much over 5'6". One small thing you can check is colour blindness. A lot of people only discover they are colour blind when they have their first aviation medical. Affects about 10% of the male population, and it's a definite no-no for aircrew.

[wannaberafpilot]

I am pretty sure that at 5'8" you don't need to worry about being too short, unless things have changed dramatically since when I was in. I certainly remember chaps shorter than that - one Herc pilot I knew was known as "wee Jock" (guess where he came from). Don't think he was much over 5'6". One small thing you can check is colour blindness. A lot of people only discover they are colour blind when they have their first aviation medical. Affects about 10% of the male population, and it's a definite no-no for aircrew.

Thanks, that's slightly re-assuring then, obviously assuming my limbs are in proportion although! And I'm not colour blind, had it tested every time I go to the opticians and can always do those colour dot tests online (whatever they're called!)

[57mm]

I remember an airframe driver posted to F3s, who duly went to AMTC and was measured. He was told that he was OK for F3, but not F4. "Well that's strange, 'cos I've just finished a tour on them!"

[ExAscoteer]

I'm 5'7" and had no problems.

[5aday]

My eldest daughter was at Durham University and flew at U.A.S. Leeming. She was quite tall ( she asked me to source some Levis in SFO size 29"/37") and she went to Cranwell for an aircrew joiners (initial?) medical. She wanted to become fast Jet but they only offered her (in her terms) slow jet (Transport or Nimrods) so she rang home for advice. At the time I was A1G1Z1 and ATPL and my advice was to hand in your kit at Leeming and change your plans. She is now a lawyer and on the board of a major company and often sits in the back of a Gulfstream 4.

[rolling20]

Chap on the UAS Bulldog with me failed the first medical for being too short. He was given another go some weeks later for some reason. He was still not at the required height and in some sort of Ealing Comedy farce, someone entered the examination room to ask the medic conducting the examination a question. When the examination resumed, the prospective pilot was asked his height as the medic has forgotten. Quick as a flash he said 5' 4" and he was in!

[Cazalet33]

Here are the key measurement boundaries for Pilots :
Functional Reach (Lenth of Arms with Fist Clenched) 720mm - 900mm
Sitting Height: 865-990mm
Buttock to Knee: 560-660mm
Buttock to Heel: 1000-1200mmTailor made for Group Captain Bader, with his falsies. No need to invoke grandfather rights for him to get in to GD (Flying) Branch, I see.

[langleybaston]

As an aside, Met folk came in all shapes and sizes and both [both?, or all?] genders. The medical only measured skin thickness. It had to equate to, or exceed, rhinocerous.