Any idea on how to increase chances?

[pilot_will]

Hi,

Im 16 years old, and I am currently studying for A levels. I have 9 GCSE's above grade C, and I have wanted to become a pilot since I was about 4 (aparently ;) )

I am still very keen, and have flown light aircraft with the Air cadets and hope to get a scholarship in gliding and flying some time.

I might have the money for a PPL. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on how I could increase chances of making that dream job as a pilot please? :D

Many thanks.

[Man Flex]

Well young man I was YOU many years ago and I can only tell you what I did.

At sixteen I had about a dozen lessons at a local flying school which was paid for by my mum and cost about £1000. This was my birthday present and back then I think she thought it was a fad and I would grow out of it. Having taken these lessons of course I was hooked but had no more money. So, I left school having guarenteed a place at university and took a job on a supermarket checkout for a year. This paid me cash in hand of £60 per week and was just enough to be able to afford a one hour lesson. Over the next few months I used this huge salary and any money I received from Xmas or birthdays to complete my PPL. It was then time to go off to uni but that would have meant that I would have had to give up flying so instead I took a job in a bank were the salary was marginally more. Once again all my money went on flying lessons and during the next two years I obtained my Night and IMC ratings and amassed 200 hours!

During this time I was looking at sponsorship and even considered the RAF as a way in. However I quickly realised that the competition was immense for only a handfull of places and the thought of being 'stuck' in the armed forces for sixteen years being shot at didn't appeal! So I decided that I would go down the self-improver route. I had a lot of advice from my friends at the flying school and they were able to guide me on how to go about things.

When it came to the time were I needed a large sum of money to study for my CPL groundschool and GFTs I persuaded the bank manager that I was worth risking a career development loan on. About a year later and still only 24 I became a flying instructor and did some 1200 hours of instructing. I completed my IR and ATPL theory about three years later with the help of another career development loan and was very lucky to walk into a turboprop job courtesy of the contacts I had made over the years.

Three years on from this I took to the skies in my first jet airliner - finally realising a dream which had lasted thirteen years!

If I knew what I knew now it would probably have taken me a lot less time but the self-improver route is not quite as straghtforward anymore.

Your best hope is to convince mum and dad that you are committed to this career choice and that it is going to cost them about £50000 to £60000 to put you through a fully-approved course. But the rewards you get are well worth the price. In the mean time stick in at school and try to get the best grades you can in subjects like Maths and Physics. Get involved in the ATC and any flying/gliding clubs in your local area. Make contacts. They will advise you more. All this will make you more attractive to any airline offering sponsorship in the future. Remember when you do go for that assessment sell yourself!

Best of luck!

[pilot_will]

Hi Man Flex,

thanks for the great advice! :)

I will have a word with my parents tonight about the course. Speaking to them in the past they have said that they will only help me if I put some effort into it (understandable) so Im trying to get a job at the mo.

They have mentioned the RAF, but like you Im not too keen on the idea.

I have somebody in the family who said that they are willing to help me quite abit. I shall look into local flying schools.

Again many thanks for the help :D

[scroggs]

While you may not be too keen on the RAF, if you decide to go to university you could take advantage of the RAF University Air Squadron system. This allows carefully selected individuals to receive some flying training from RAF instructors in RAF aircraft while at University. It also gives access to other individuals in the same situation, and a rather splendid social life, and carries no commitment to the RAF at all.

If you're still involved with the Air Cadets, you can get more information through them. Alternatively, you should find information is available through the RAF Careers website.

Scroggs

[Man Flex]

If it seems too cheap, it probably is! Be wary about certain flight schools offering deals that appear 'too good to be true'.

There are no short cuts in this game. To make yourself most attractive to an airline in the shortest possible time you would be required to complete a fully integrated course at an approved school ideally such as British Aerospace in Jerez or Oxford Air Training. These are the schools that airlines turn to when they need to fill RHS positions with people who have no experience.

Why would they want such people? Well in most cases they want someone who will be happy to sit in the RHS for a good few years and will not be whinging for a command in the near future or be tempted away elsewhere. Otherwise it is an airline who knows that the only people they will be able to employ as F/Os are those who have no experience. Ask yourself would a F/O with some 1000 hours on jets take a job as a F/O on a small turboprop? The only competition in this area for someone who has graduated at Jerez are the many dozens of flying instructors out there who have several hundred hours in light aeroplanes.

It depends on the airline who they prefer but most still plump for the approved school graduate especially if they come recommended.

It is only this method of training that will get you into the industry quickly and without any experience.

Cheers.

[High Volt]

pilot_will

Like Man Flex and many others who undoubtably read these threads, I had to earn my airline job the hard way. It's interesting that Man Flex was a "self improver" a route that to my knowledge is no longer available (700 hours through tug flying/instructing) and yet he advocates the fully approved integrated course. He is right although I feel personally that the "no cash but loads of determination" route was a very valuable back door for unprivelidged people such as us: alas no more!

Times change and although some oportunities are lost, others are created. Not so long ago, you could go to university for free but literally had to be one of the chosen few to be a pilot: either as an RAF Officer or a very well heeled private individual/airline cadet. Thankfully this is no longer the case. I may be wrong but I'm sure that you could get a frozen ATPL for £35K if you negotiated hard with BAe Jerez or Cabair. However, if you really do have charitable tendancies you could give £60K to Oxford! Just look into how much of that is actually flying training and how much is profit on your food/lodging and remember that they are used to hoards of airline cadets who are not paying the fees.

Attitudes and circumstances have changed! If you wish now to attend a university degree course, you will have tuition fees, living expenses and an almost certain personal debt of £10K to £20K upon completion. At a very conservative estimate let's say an absolute minimum of £30K! If you went ahead with an ATPL you would be employable after a year (offset against 2 years lost earnings as a graduate on a 3 year course!) and have a job that you really enjoy which generally speaking pays much better money than the average graduate will earn. Point this out to your mum and dad: you can start paying them back 2 years earlier! If I were you, this is the route that I would take if the RAF/sponsorship option were not available.

The obstacles do seem insurmountable at your stage in the game but that is what sorts out the men from the boys: ATC, gliding clubs, begging, borrowing and stealing flights is all part of the fun, just don't let anyone knock you down. Oh! and a couple of other things: RAF Life is great, it really is a privilege and there is more to life than money!

Good Luck

[Trenchard20]

All good points

Before you consider paying for a fully integrated course, there are a few Sponsorships about, EasyJet, Thomas Cook and another two airlines yet to be announced by CTC McAlpine provides 100% sponsorship. Air Atlantique also provide a full sponsorship. (There’s a large thread on CTC McAlpine on this forum)

Applying to the Forces provided me with valuable interview experience and some great memories. Gliding is cheap and great fun it also looks good on your C.V.

Get some good Grades in you’re A-levels, then apply to all the sponsorships you hear of. I know two people that got sponsored at 19 so its possible! If all this fails you can then consider paying for it yourself. Why pay if you can get it for free?

University was great I wouldn’t trade those years for anything. Although as mentioned its quite expensive these days.

Whatever you choose to do if your committed and determined to be a pilot I can’t see any reason you wont be!

Good Luck!! :D

[Man Flex]

I agree with the comments above but must just add that IF I had had the funds available to me then I would have almost certainly gone down the approved school route.

Yes, the self-improver route was character building and ultimately made me a better pilot by teaching me people and organisational skills, giving me confidence and experience. But it was through necessity and it took a hell of a long time.

I sometimes feel that these youngsters who graduate at Jerez and move straight into the RHS of a large commercial jet have missed out on something. But for them it's "who cares!". I just hope they appreciate it!