BEWARE...New digital speed cameras on M4

[Mightycrewseven]

Bugga!!!



The SPECS -speed enforcement system is now live on the M4 between Junction 12 - Theale, and J14 Hungerford, just east of Membury Service station. It was switched on officially, by a transport minister, for a '6-month trial period' on Tues 7 October 2003.

It is likely to be set at 78mph real road speed! No human intervention is required in issuing speeding tickets, so very large numbers can be issued automatically.


PS. The cameras are mounted on the overhead information signs, (pairs of tiny cameras). They DO NOT FLASH, so you won't know you are likely to 'cop' a ticket at the time.

Info from the internet follows.

SPECS -speed enforcement system
The digital speed camera developed by Speed Check Services Ltd (SPECS) obtained Home Office type approval in 2000. The camera is a major technological development over previous speed cameras and has proved successful in improving road safety and reducing casualties. SPECS cameras work in pairs and calculate the average speed of a car over a length that can be between 250m and 10km.
What is SPECS?
It is the only approved automatic digital speed enforcement using average speed measurement in the UK. The system is deterrent based with the ultimate deterrent being enforcement.

Is there any similar technology currently in operation?
No. SPECS is a unique product.

Although conventional automatic speed enforcement systems are in operation, none currently can enforce speeds over a distance - except SPECS.

How does it work?
SPECS works using automatic average speed digital technology. A pair of cameras creates a speed controlled zone and groups of cameras can be linked to create a speed controlled network. As vehicles pass between the cameras pairs they are digitally recorded. The time it takes for the vehicle to travel between both points is used to calculate the average speed.

If the vehicle speed is above a speed threshold, a speeding violation record is automatically generated. This includes images of the registration plate, a colour image of the vehicle and text data including the time, date, location and average speed travelling between both locations.

Violation records are stored on large storage capacity discs. This system functions 24 hours a day and can be interfaced with existing ticket processing systems.

How will motorists know what to look out for?

Motorists will need to look out for cameras erected on tall blue-coloured distinctive columns in the verge and central reservation. The cameras do not flash and all the data is digitally stored so that there is no need for film. Speed Camera Signs will be erected explaining to motorists that speed enforcement will be taking place.

What is SPECS and SVDD?
SPECS is the brand name for the system.
This stands for SPEed Check enforcement System.

SVDD stands for Speed Violation Detection Deterrent. It is the name given to the unique technology the SPECS system is based upon which has gained Home Office Type Approval (HOTA).

What is Home Office Type Approval (HOTA) testing and why is it significant?
Home Office Approval testing is in place to ensure that equipment meets the highest standards and any information provided from HOTA approved equipment can be considered as providing admissible evidence in UK courts.

ACPO (Association of Chief Police Officers) approved of the system and supported its application for Home Office Type Approval. Two Police Forces, Kent and Leicestershire, championed the trials testing on the M1 and M20 Roadworks.

The PSDB (Police Scientific and Development Branch of the Home Office) undertook scientific evaluation as a necessary part of the HOTA process. This evaluation included test track trials at an independent test site. The evaluation was successful and verified the SVDD technology used in SPECS as 100% accurate.

HOTA is significant because it empowers UK Police Forces to use the SPECS technology to bring charges against speeding offenders, confident in the knowledge that they can present irrefutable supporting evidence.

In addition, UK Home Office Type Approved products are regarded internationally as meeting external high standards of quality and integrity.

THE INFO BELOW IS HISTORIC< AND IS NOT GUARANTEED UP TO DATE, OR CURRENT.

Where is the system in operation?
Permanent SPECS systems are now operating in Nottingham, Northampton and Gloucester:
A616 Stocksbridge Bypass in South Yorkshire
Nottingham Phase 1 - A610 & Ring Road
Nottingham Phase 2 - Extension of Nuttall Rd A610
Nottingham Phase 3 - Extension of Western Boulevard South, Ring Rd
Nottingham Phase 4 - Extension of Western Boulevard North, Ring Rd
A43 Lumbertubs Way, Northampton
Linden & Podsmead, Gloucester - Residential area

Temporary roadworks throughout the country currently using the SPECS system include.
M62 J7 -9 Roadworks, Warrington
M6 Thelwall Viaduct, Cheshire
M62 J7 - 9 Roadworks, Cheshire
M6 J6 Spagetti Junction Roadworks, Birmingham

More sites to follow in the next few months.

Is the data legally enforceable?
The HOTA enables the SPECS violation records to be presented as admissible evidence in UK courts.

Apart from its use as a speeding deterrent, are there any other benefits?
Yes. There are many other longer term benefits which will be possible once the SPECS systems are installed including increasing road safety and decreasing speed profiles, more accurate journey time information and other performance data and speed management benefits.



Bl**dy H£ll, I've been up and down the M4 at least four times this week and am therefore waiting for the inevitable 'BAN'

How am I going to get out of this one with my licence in tact? I was averaging about 80-85 on all four journeys!!!

M7 :uhoh: :uhoh:

(edited for speeling)

[StopStart]

Get a GPS based speed camera "locator" ;) Worth their weight etc etc

:p

Geodesy (http://www.geodesygps.co.uk/geodesy-plus.htm?ref=speedtraps-default)

Origin blue i (http://www.originblueidirect.co.uk/?ref=speedtraps-default)

Edited to say, just reread your post and, er, unlucky mate! :D

[FEBA]

There's also an in car detection system called Road Angel. I'm not certain if whether this works with digital systems.
I've got 6 points on my licence now, 3 of those were from my wife who was driving my car at the time ggrrrrrrrrr:{
FEBA

[Divergent Phugoid!]

Dont think that the GPS based detector would work Have you seen how many blue posts have popped up at the side of the road in recent years? The GPS would be continually bleeping.

As these digital traps dont use Radar or Lazer Technology I dont think there is an option out of this one, detection will be almost impossible. These will be the way to go for the money making Police forces!

Could try Finding out what car the chief contstable in your area drives, go hire the same car from Avis, Fix the same registration plates as his/hers on the car and then go camera busting!!

Then wait for them to get the summons for speeding!!

I wonder if they would get away with it in court?

Bet the cameras would come down then!!


:D :p

[CAC Runaway]

The blue posts are NOT speed cameras they are for traffic flow observation. Get yourself a GPS based detector (I have the new Snooper S6R Neo). It works very well, and if you were to fit a laser diffuser (not that I would cos that might not be legal!) then you are protected from lasers aswell. Normal laser detectors will just tell you that you are about to get a ticket as it only takes a fraction of a sec for them to get a reading.

[tradewind]

CAC Runaway:

'if you were to fit a laser diffuser (not that I would cos that might not be legal!) then you are protected from lasers aswell. Normal laser detectors will just tell you that you are about to get a ticket as it only takes a fraction of a sec for them to get a reading.'

A laser diffuser should be legal as it is a 'passive' device. As far as I know, the only illegal devices are 'active' eg radar jammer.

As for the laser detecting times - I have a Euro 550 and although the've got you if they have targeted you, it seems to pick up the laser well if they are pointing it somewhere else (which is useful to know that they are around).

As one of my work colleagues pointed out - if you don't speed, you won't get caught!

Easy for him to say - he doesn't have 9 points!!!

[FREIGHTMEISTER]

Can validate ther Snoope S6R got one in my motor.

Download a new database from the phone every couple of days so it is always uptodate.

Saved my ass a couple of times :ok:

FM

[RubiC Cube]

Thought all speed cameras had to be painted yellow and not hidden behind things?

[Scud-U-Like]

Mightycrewseven

I'd be interested to know the source of your "quote". Shame on you for scaring the bejesus out of all those M4 users ;)

Quote:

"There are NO speed cameras and NO SPECS cameras in the signs!"
Source: Thames Valley Police

http://www.thamesvalley.police.uk/

http://www.highways.gov.uk/roads/projects/ms4/09.htm

[Paterbrat]

Divergent Phugoids idea is irrisistably appealing. A fundraiser should be started and a number of these vehicles commisioned, it would make for an amusing read in the daily if nothing else.

[Postman Plod]

This has been doing the rounds in the local area via Email, and it looks like Scud-U-Like has just confirmed it as a hoax. Seem to be hoaxes like this every year or so in Thames Valley, but you're never entirely sure if its true or not, so you forward it on regardless! Almost like a virus hoax, but encourages you NOT to break the law - Police planted you think?:\

[steamchicken]

I always wondered how well a radar jammer would work on gatsos. Obviously vv illegal, but a bit cooler than the hard kill solution aka angle grinder+pick up truck! Mind you, though, a camera based system like Specs would be pretty much invulnerable to such methods.

(Note - however hoax the email is, it does state that speed camera signs would be erected. Hence legal)

But what's this?

"The new motorway signs have been designed to accommodate closed circuit television cameras. These cameras will be used by the Highways Agency to assess the effectiveness of the new signs by monitoring traffic flow and movement patterns in response to the driver information messages set on the signs. Real-time images from these cameras will also be available to Thames Valley Police at their motorway control office, offering additional aid to locating and managing incidents on the motorway more swiftly and helping to set the new signs more promptly and accurately. The cameras will not be used for speed enforcement." http://www.highways.gov.uk/roads/projects/ms4/03.htm


Can we believe them? Tinfoil hats on....

[X-QUORK]

Oh dear Tradewind, only three more points and you'll be getting the taxi to work.

Why do normally law abiding people think it's acceptable to scream around at breakneck speed ? Yes, we'd all like to be F1 drivers at heart....that's what little boys dream of. I guess some of you guys haven't managed to shake off that boy-driver attitude. Morons.

[zalt]

For corporate info on SPECS (which I assume Mightycrewseven consulted) see: http://www.speedcheck.co.uk/specs.htm

I think someone may have put 2 and 2 together and made 7.

[Out Of Trim]

Time to unbolt the front number plate then I think!

Just no fun left in driving in the UK now. :sad: :\

[tony draper]

As somebody has pointed out elsewhere, speed cameras are very easy to spoof, don't feckin speed.
:rolleyes:

[StopStart]

Can vouch for the Geodesy system as being a top piece of kit as is the Origin Blue i. I also have a laser/radar detector which has saved me once :D
The laser diffuser is, I believe, illegal as they are considered to be interfering with a police officers duties or something like that.

Top tip: if you have a radar/laser detector don't take it to France. I got approached in a service station by les gendarmes who advised me it was illegal. I thanked them and in return I gave them the detector as well as £500 (after they'd driven me to a cash machine, bless 'em!)

PS. X-QUORK, what's the view like from up there on the moral high ground?

:yuk:

[MajorMadMax]

StopStart

How'd they catch you? I have a radar detector on my motorbike, but it is hidden inside the fairing with just a small device on the dash to flash and scream radar. I was just in France on Saturday (I only live about a half hour from the border), and maek regular trips there, so I am interested in hearing your story.

Cheers! M2

[tradewind]

M2, according to the info on my detector when I bought it, the police (esp the French) can use equipment to detect your detector, sort of electronic counter measures. So by electronic means rather than visually.

Heh X-DORK, I assume you have NEVER exceeded the speed limit, or are you someone who speeds but still has a clean licence (like most of the drivers in this country), so you can preach to us 'morons' who got caught.

[Unwell_Raptor]

Slowly, oh so slowly, the message will sink in, that the Government has accepted that excess speed is part of the cause of road deaths, and that reduction in speed will bring about a reduction in deaths. As a result of this technology is being, and will be, deployed to catch people who speed.

Today a detector, tomorrow a GPS may defer the evil day, but sooner rather than later technology will make detection a near certainty- and not too long after than that active speed control will take the speed decision away from the driver.

I passed my driving test in 1963, and I thoroughly enjoyed driving as a sport and as a hobby.

But the party's over. Too many cars, too few open roads.

And that's a fact.

[Divergent Phugoid!]

On a slightly different note...


remember a story some years ago in one ofthe flight mags about the police in Jockland working on a RADAR trap at the side of a main road... Heard an aircraft approaching and raised the Speed gun in the direction of the a/c and got a reading of 350mph!

Aparently the speed gun went u/s in a cloud of smoke and when the police complained to the MOD, they reply received to the effect that that they were lucky to have got away with a smoking gun... Had the two ship harrier formation, which was live armed returning from the Bosnia theatre been complying with sop's they would have been looking for two more officers and a new patrol car as a HARM should have been launched towards the intrusive radar source!

Anyone out there confirm this or shed any light on it?

About the same time as the speeding 911
(130mph plus!) on the A1 near Wittering at night with no lights... Driver and passenger using new NVG's!!

[EJ Thribb]

I was watching Fifth Gear on Channel 5 tonight (mainly to letch at Vicki Butler-Henderson). They had a very good feature on anti-speed cam protection measures. All the passive detectors were judged by a tame copper as being legal as all they do is provide information, but the active laser emitter, although very effective, was not. Said tame copper explained that the laser emitter disrupts due legal process and would result in the driver having to explain to a court why he had it fitted to his vehicle.

Top tip, Fifth Gear are running a competition to win the Volvo they fitted all of the legal gadgets to. If you call 09015 33 99 55 and tell them that the answer is (a. GPS) you may win the motor with the toys. Good luck!

[MajorMadMax]

Phugoid

That story (the version I heard had A-10s in it) has been determined to be an urban myth. Read why here (http://www.snopes.com/horrors/techno/radar.htm).

I thought radar detectors were passive receivers, but the more i think about I did do recall reading they emit a small signal to somehow clarify the signal being received. Any 40-lb brainstems out there want to explain in layman's terms??

Cheers! M2

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Of course there is very little to stop one from chopping in your DVLA license for - say - a Spanish one and driving on that. Insurance companies are quite happy these days to ensure you on a Pan European basis.

I suspect these automated money machine systems that policemen have been allowed to install everywhere can't be bothered with chasing anybody that requires anything administratively complicated.

The police operate with the consent of the public. If they persist with churning out hundreds of thousands of tickets a month then they risk loosing that consent with dire consequences for us all. The destruction of over 700 cameras so far indicates the way public mood is going. Proposals to install cameras to guard the cameras show how limited is the thinking of some bureacrats.

Anyway, (to give some relevance to forum) I saw a Canberra the other day - thats a military aeroplane with cameras in it.

Cheers

WWW

[419]

Have any Pruners (car drivers) ever been nicked by front facing speed camera's?. (the sneaky ones, with the infra-red flash). I've seen quite a few of them in Norfolk and Lincolnshire.
I was wondering if there would be a possible defence in court, that they are illegal because they discriminate against car drivers, due to the fact that they can-not catch motorbikes, which are not required to have a front number plate. All they would get is a photo of a grinning biker raising a finger, as they passed the camera.

419

Wouldn't this topic be better off in Jet blast?

[X-QUORK]

StopStart,

The view's great thanks.

Tradewind,

Until March this year I had three penalty points on my driving licence, for driving at 37mph in a 30mph speed limit. I was initially quite pi$$ed off and felt all the usual feelings "why don't they spend more time trying to catch real criminals?" etc etc. After the initial anger passed and I had time to reflect, and I've come to the conclusion that speed limits are there for a reason and that getting the points has been a good thing. I've become more aware of my speed at all times, and still am over three years since being caught. I guess it doesn't always work that way with other drivers?

I don't claim to be 100% spotlessly clean. I drive at 80mph on the motorways (most traffic cops won't be bothered if you drive safely and with decent seperation distance between you and the car in front). I certainly won't break a speed limit by more than 10-15%.....and frankly if you do, you're taking a gamble with your licence.

[Scud-U-Like]

I agree it is important to observe speed restrictions in built-up areas or other areas where there is a higher risk of collision. What is not acceptable is the use of speed detection devices (whether automatic or manually operated) on safe, open stretches of highway, especially during quiet periods, when the risk of collision is negligible.

Many speed cameras are simply a tax on speed. The current obsession of some chief constables with speed enforcement is absurd. Their attitude alienates the normally law-abiding majority, hindering rather than helping the fight against real crime. As for traffic officers, many are utter hypocrites, who, without lawful excuse, routinely drive in excess of the prevailing speed limit and whose driving skills are often questionable.

I have a clean licence. I regularly exceed the speed limit on motorways and dual carriageways. The secret: be alert, don't overdo it, don't be complacent and familiarise yourself with the methods and vehicles used by the traffic police and local authorities.

[RatherBeFlying]

Thanks 419 -- I was wondering how the cameras could get an image without a flash -- IR will do the job, though I doubt if there's such as a thing as IR flash.

We can look forward to some IRCM such as Heated or Cooled Plate Covers so that plate shows as white or black spot -- unless plod has IR vision, won't be able to see;)

You need a thermoconductive visible light transparent substance to blur the IR image -- such as water.

A more concealed option would be a heating element behind the numbers/backing, perhaps with a mask to create a differential temperature to compensate for the different radiativity of the backing and numbers.

[BEagle]

Stoppers - didn't your QFI ever teach you to LOOK OUT!

That said, perhaps you tried a little banter along the lines of "I was only trying to prove that the long, straight tree-lined roads in la belle France weren't just so that ze Tchermans could march in the shade..." Or "If you bug.gers used mph and not kph, I wouldn't have got so confused...my, what a simply beautiful revolver you've got - do they give you the bullets as well?"

In any case, I didn't know that your Calibra was capable of such speeds - didn't you have a famous interview on TV about it being so unreliable?

[steamchicken]

Major Mad Max, almost all radio receiving devices have a local oscillator to modulate the incoming signal (but I've forgotten why this is necessary for the moment). This circuit produces rf energy - some of which can be emitted. The principle was used by MI5 to catch Soviet agents listening to coded broadcasts - they would drive around the area in question with the equipment in a vehicle around the time Moskva Centre was known to transmit, monitoring the Soviet signal themselves as a guide. When they detected a local oscillator signal simultaneous with the Soviet broadcast, they knew someone nearby was listening.

They further developed this to include active detection, in which they would ping the target with a burst of noise on the frequency in question to see if they got a signal - used to confirm the detection at a specific spot. The project was called RAFTER and was large - they even flew airborne-RAFTER missions over London to get a general idea of where a spy was before placing the monitors on the ground to pinpoint them.

It was a Peter Wright thing, and it's all in Spycatcher anyway...I suspect strongly that Stopstart's radar detector, a receiver, was counterdetected by the same method. Also, I'm of the view that TV detector vans work on this principle.

[moggie]

Just plug in the cruise control at speed limit plus 2 mph and relax.

[419]

RatherBeeFlying,
It's not a true infra-red flash as such. What the system actually uses is infra-red sensitive film in the camera, and a "black" filter in front of the flash gun. This stops all light except infrared.
(the same set-up can be used for 35mm still photography).

419

[RatherBeFlying]

419

So what one needs is a filter that passes visible light, but blocks the IR that passes through the black filter:E

[LostThePicture]

Did someone say "a tax on speed"? Yes, apparently so if reports in today's national newspapers are anything to go by.

Thousands of drivers have been wrongly convicted of speeding after a camera was put up in the wrong place, it emerged yesterday.
But officials have refused to declare an amnesty for motorists who have paid fines and had penalty points put on their licence.
Instead, each driver wrongly caught must make an individual appeal. So far 10 motorists have been let off after making a plea.
The camera was set up to enforce a 50mph speed limit at roadworks on the M4 near Newport, South Wales - but instead snapped cars 200 yards past the roadworks as they accelerated back to 70mph.
More than 2500 motorists were trapped from July last year to September this year and £150,000 had been paid in fines before police realised a mistake had been made. John Rowling of the Safety Camera Partnership - run by three police forces in Wales - said: "Anyone with concerns regarding their penalty on this occasion is advised to write to us and we will consider their case individually"
Source: Daily Express

This is exactly the sort of behaviour that is increasing the public's enmity towards speed traps and those who set them. If the drivers should not have been penalised, then the fines and points should have been rescinded immediately. To require everyone to question their penalty in writing is merely a crass way of pocketing thousands of pounds from innocent people.

My partner is one person who will be writing to check if her penalty still stands, but what about those who didn't happen to pick up a newspaper today? Their fines and penalties will still stand. Absolutely disgusting.

And that's not to mention all the people who will, in the intervening period, have paid increased car insurance premiums as a result of having endorsements on their licence, my partner again included. I doubt that this money will be seen again, whatever the outcome of any challenge to the penalty.

Any thoughts? Mine include: :yuk: :mad: :ouch:

LTP

[John Eacott]

You don't know how lucky you are in UK: try putting up with our Victorian State Government, who have:

Budgeted $A450 million to be raised in speeding fines this financial year

Arbitrarily rescinded the ADR (Australian Design Rules) which mandates 10% error for speed measuring devices, and instigated a 3kph error allowance only. Which happens to be the ADR tolerance on their speed cameras :rolleyes:

Installed fixed cameras on the newest, safest highway in the state

In the process of installing point to point photo systems, to measure a vehicle over a known distance (40 km or 400 km, on the main Melbourne - Sydney Highway) to further modify driving behaviour

Run a graphic scare campaign for many years, totally allocating driving accidents to either speed or drink: no acceptance of road conditions, driving ability, etc etc

Installed fixed speed cameras on the main arterial bridge access to Melbourne, anticipating $A1 million income per day , even though speeding and accidents are totally unrelated on the WestGate Bridge

Lowered speed limits in built up areas to 50kph, and in some places 40kph

The list goes on, but try driving at 40 kph downhill, without creeping 2-3kph up. Yesterday a number of Police Sargeants wrote to the Herald Sun adding their concern that cameras are now purely seen as revenue raising devices. Meanwhile, no copper can be bothered to enforce "normal" road laws, eg, keep to the left unless overtaking, 'cos it's too difficult to put the time into pursuing the issue if it goes to court.

[Hueymeister]

Got a ticket from the Bosch recently...Euro 60 with a polite note with the photo that giving the civil service camera the 'bird' could cost me another Euro 12,000.

Now wearing baseball cap and rediculous beard!:uhoh: :uhoh::sad:

[MajorMadMax]

419

Why don'tcha get yourself a nice little motorbike, then?!? And just for your reading amusement, they do have "rear-pointing" :ooh: radar cameras here in the land of beer and chocolate, saw several of them going to The Netherlands a few weeks ago. Nasty!

And yes, I do have a motorcycle and yes, I do speed. I just got back from the UK and asfar as I saw, you don't have much if a speeding problem. If you want to see some reckless driving, come over here and watch the Belg!

Cheers! M2

[Doctor Cruces]

Speed cameras are a fact of life, and lets face it folks, if you speed you are breaking the law and therefore don't expect sympathy from anyone.

I've seen idiots flying down the A17 until they come accross a speed camera and the slam on the brakes and cut people up to get back into the proper side of the road before they gat taken out by head on traffic. I was nearly blatted by one recently.

Having said that, I don't see the point of doing 70 on the M-whatever at 0-silly hundred in the morning without another vehicle in sight, but there it is. 75 mph and no points and really unlucky if a copper pulls you over any faster and you're asking for it.

Everyone knows that, so don't do it and don't whinge if you end up with loads of points on your licence.

Happy motoring

Doc C: :ok:

[RichiePAO]

Having been for a number a years as one of those 'hated' traffic police officers, all I can add to this is that its not neessarily speed alone that is the problem. Speed coupled with a human being sitting at the wheel of his car with his twenty minute (at best) attention span whilst seated in his warm comfortable environment with all the associated distractions of in-car entertinment, mobile telephones and irksome passengers is the problem.
Humans make mistakes which usually means other people having to quite literally clear those mistakes up (when you have seen the remains of someone having attempted to cross a dual carriageway and failed, having been hit by fifteen different vehicles including lorries you will form in your mind a new definition of road kill). Knocking at someones door to tell them that you believe there son/daughter/mother/father is lying on a mortuary slab also opens your eyes to the real world.
All I can say is drive within your capabilities, the capabilities of the road, you vehicle and always try to anticipate what other road users are doing around you and how what you are doing effects them.
It is better to be late than not arrive at our destination at all.

[BEagle]

Nice to hear the view of Road Plod. Some good prose on 'defensive driving' - but I note that he didn't defend these b£oody cameras. The ones which I consider exceptionally dangerous are those placed on straight single carriageway roads where it used to be safe to overtake the 55 mph truck in front of you by 'mirror, signal, manoeuvre' - drivers would keep their eyes on the road ahead, accelerating briskly to minimise their exposure on the 'wrong side' before pulling back in to the 'correct' side and continuing at 60 mph. But now, wary of Plodcams they overtake at 60 mph, so that the time spent on the wrong side is considerably increased - where it might once have involved a speed difference of 15-20 mph, it's now only 5 mph - so they spend perhaps 4 times as long on the 'wrong' side....

If you want examples, just drive down the A40 from Burford to Gloucester....where once it was safe to overtake, these ba$tard things now make it very dangerous.

Mind how you go Sir....

[Man-on-the-fence]

Having read This (http://www.highways.gov.uk/roads/projects/ms4/04.htm) Iand driven past them yesterday I am convinced that Scud-U-Like is correct an thatthis is a hoax. The cameras are nothing more than CCTV cameras located on every other sign.

I wouldnt put it past someone in Government to have started the rumour though.

Speed doesnt kill, its the numpty behind the wheel that kills. Its time to stop persecuting the motorist and start catcching real criminals.
I wouuldnt mind if there had been an increase in Bobbies on the beat bcause of these camera, but there isnt.

Any PPruners in Oxfordshire who have seen the mass on inappropriate and quite frankly dangerous new speed limits may be interested to know that the Council officer in charge of putting these in doesnt drive and is only pushing ahead with it to meet a Government target on Accident reduction that Oxon dont have to meet because they were well below the national average. Oh and the Police are not happy with these new limits either.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Beags - all but one of those speed cameras on the A40 between Burford and Cheltenham don't actually work. Someone has been pushing them off the upright so the only thing they can take a picture of is a speeding hedgehog in the ditch.

I tip my hat to the man.

But you are quite right. They seem to have places each camera on the only safe overtaking stretch every 10 miles or so.

On an otherwise fairly winding road there develops a stream of cars behind - often as not - a horse transporter. Up comes a decent straight, the white lines indicate an opportunity to pass, the road is clear, one stirs ones BMW straight six into action...

Halfway through or just into the manouver all hell brakes loose as the poor driver spots markings on the road! There then follows an almighty dither whereby he decides whether to pull back in (hazardous), floor it an hope there's no film, or - worst of all - overtake at 62mph with white knuckles praying no other car comes around the bend.

I cannot believe the police places those cameras there. Its idiocy that will kill someone in a head on one of these days.

And yet every Sunday night around Cheltenhams mighty one way system I see the same Citroen Saxo VTRs (bespoilered, lowered and jam packed with teenage slack jawed insolence) belting around 30/40 mph zones at well over 60. In the dark. At pub chucking out time.

Yet where is plod?

Every Monday morning he's there tutting at the wreckage of another Vauxhall Nova embedded in the street furniture. Yet every Sunday night he's nowhere to be seen.

WWW

[BEagle]

WWW - do keep schtum about those wretched Plodcams! Or doubtless some do-gooder tree-hugging fluffy bunny will tip off the local council who will send out a man and a thousand cones to repair the ba$tard things......

The overtaking danger you describe is precisely what I've encountered.

The A40 should be widened to dual carriageway standard all the way from Oxford to the M5. But the bicycle-brained woolly-hats in dubious charge of the Oxfordshire road planning would have a fit of the vapours if anyone dared to suggest it......they prefer to waste more money on their stupid 'cycle paths'. Have you ever seen anyone cycling on the A40 cycle paths west of Eynsham, WWW?

[Divergent Phugoid!]

Interesting comment from M o t F but there is a system in existance which uses CCTV cameras to automatically record details of vehicles being driven through the cameras field of vision, then it scans the index number through the PNC, comes up with all details of the registered owner if the vehicle is taxed etc... It was proposed at the time of the trial that it would be used to detect and convict speeding drivers!! This system was being shown to the Surrey Police in Guildford nearly three years ago!!

Before I get a flood of remarks to the negative, they can use the already in situ CCTV cameras to do the same... In extreem cases only at the moment.

They know the distance between cameras, all they do is time the errant driver between said cameras and after some simple maths.. Hey presto you have the vehicles average speed!!
The Same principle that VASCAR and PILOT works on except that that they use Mk1. eyeball instead of cameras for target aqusition.


Now we all should be worried!!


:sad: :*

[moggie]

BEags - OCCs Highways policy is one of those things that puts me off visiting the family - it is such a God awful place to drive around now.

The proliferation of 50mph limits on good, 60mph+ roads is nothing more than a cynical, money grabbing ploy.

Changing tack, I gather that the congestion charge in London is losing money. I understand they wanted a 5-10% reduction in traffic but as it has fallen by 15%+ they are not taking enough money to pay for collecting it!

Poor old Ken, his stealth tax is costing him money (less for the one-legged, lesbian, single mothers theatre groups, then).

[BEagle]

The 'time between two points' method was attempted by some zealous new OC Plods at Scampton (long before it became part of Learning Command or had the Pink Tarts in residence). He stationed one of his acting corporals at a suitable spot on the main drag,with instructions to raise his hand when a car went past. OC Plods, being more important and thus more capable of working things mechanical, would then start the stopwatch. As the car got to him, if the time was less than a certain number of seconds, he would do his "Right, chummy, you're nicked. Bang to rights" thing.....

Well, he'd forgotten 2 things. Firstly, 2 can play at that game and secondly, that there were a number of aircrew mates on the station. So one day, when Starsky and Hutch were doing their arm waving and stopwatch bit, there was the roar of a high perfrmance engine and a squeal of tyres as some aircrew mate set off past Plod-who-waved.....then there was another screech as he braked down to barely walking pace, passing Plod-with-watch at precisely the correct time to be spot on the limit. The Stn Cdr allegedly got to hear of it, thought it was an excellent wheeze and told OC Plods to stop ar$ing about and to do something useful!

Back to Oxfordshire - and interesting to note that the yet-to-be opened new roads around Brize village and Witney both have nannying 50 mph limits......

[Man-on-the-fence]

Beags

Now that depends upon what speed the road was designed for. However why they couldnt have designed them to be decent 2 lane dual carriageways beats me.

If the cameras on the M4 were the money grabbing type whould they not be yellow and be surrounded by bloody great signs in line with Govt Policy?

Yep they are money grabbing, but thetre is little point in having them everywhere without warning. There would be no-one left on the road to be had by them then.

Besides all cameras of this nature that I have seen in the last 2 years have been bright yellow with those little white lines surrounding them.

[My names Turkish]

jam packed with teenage slack jawed insolence

WWW thank you for that sidesplitting remark, cheered up my Sun afternoon. I nearly wet myself.

You have mentioned before about your spanish driving licence. I am in a similar position, however I recall my father being caught in the UK and having not a Uk licence, the foreign office sent the fine across the waters and demanded payment, I realize that this would still avoid the points, but still the fine? Has it happend yet? So if you were caught is it feasible that you would be tracked to your Spanish address? It wasnt a very seious offence ar anything, but it was followed up none the less. Also, I know there are plans to harmonize EU law to stop people being banned in one country and getting a licence elsewhere and generally evading the law.

[VP8]

I think you'll find those cameras on the A40 ar all active even if pulled over!!

Went to BZZ to meet one of our palnes and the detector was showing 4-5 bars of activity when passing them!!!!

Forewarned is forarmed

VEEPS:cool:

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

The fines still find there way over seas but as the DVLA have no rights to put points on another countries license you don't get points.

From what I can gather it is likely that the police force in question simply won't bother. It requires a tiny amount of extra admin to process a standard SP40 to a foreign driver. As it is discretionary for them to do it they tend not to be bothered - I am informed. Most forces have contracted out the detection and fine demanding activity. Said civilian contractor is on a tight margin and chasing down a foreigner would bust his budget.

Doubtless in the future they will harmonise it all to hell but for now it seems somewhat viable.

WWW

[BEagle]

One of the more sensible ideas to come out of Brussels is the idea for a standard European credit card sized driving licence. Doubtless this would contain a chip - hence multi-licence holding would probably be no longer possible?

The way things are going, Plodcams will one day spot you speeding, uplink the information to a Eurocomputer which will sniff out your licence, fine you and apply the points automatically anywhere in President Tony's Euroland.

I've nothing against sensibly placed Plodcams in built-up areas. But revenue grabbers on the open road fankly deserve everything they get...

[Just an other number]

But what can you do when set a bad example by the law itself?
pm 4 October 2003 - A801 (that's in Scotland that is) southbound
dual carriageway 70 mph
McPlod zooms up behind from nowhere and sticks on tail, too close to my mind
one occupant - driver
head resting on hand - so only one hand on steering wheel
mile after mile
finally join the slip for the M8 at J4 and he's past me - at clearly an illegal speed

It's this sort of behaviour that worries me more than the simple money grabbing speed camera tactics.

And what can anyone do about this?

[Divergent Phugoid!]

Just...

In those circumstances, I would take the registration number, make and type, date, time, place etc, maybe if close enough, description of the driver and his number if visable, write a stinking letter to the chief constable in the area you were in, commenting on the poor driving displayed.
I would say that it appeared that the driver was on a mobile phone and mention that in the letter...

The police dont have an exemption to using radios telephones mobiles whilst on the move.. Policy is to stop and use them. Post said letter, sit back and wait for a reply...
As you were in scotland you would need a second person in the car with you for corroboration purposes if you were thinking along the lines of a prosecution against said officer for what you seem to describe is driving with out reasonable consideration for other road users, s3 RTA 1988.

There are too many Police officers blatently flouting regulations because they think they are invincible!! Would be nice to see them selves being policed for a change..

On the odd occasion I use a mobile on the move I use a hands free kit but if I were ever prosecuted, I would mention every occasion where I saw a Police car being driven badly because the driver was on a mobile phone or using his radio!

Its not too difficult to get a prosecution against the police if you know how to go about it...


:ok: :ok:



Blue touch paper lit, retired to a safe distance.... INCOMING!!

[Pontius Navigator]

The Blue posts at the side of the road are indeed traffic flow sensors but they have been used in a murder investigation.

The camera was used to confirm the presence of the suspect's car outside his house when the suspect himself was in Amsterdam setting himself up with a naughty alibi.

The camera could not be used as evidence however as it was not authorised for that purpose. It is questionable if the police should even have been allowed to see it - in law that is.

[Hydraulic Palm Tree]

Can't understand why I can't drive whilst having a conversation over a wireless device whilst holding map in hand. I do this in an aircraft at 50ft solo at 120kts and it is OK - what's the big problem!

:cool:

HPT

[BEagle]

But how close to the curb are you?

Since 'yoof' appears to have grown up...wrong, make that 'got older' with a mobile phone almost permanently attached to its ear, perhaps talking aimlessly whilst performing other tasks isn't really as much of a problem as some seem to think?

Plod seems to think that 'distraction' caused by pressing buttons on a proper hands-free could also be open to prosecution. So next it'll be adjusting the air-conditioning, turning up the radio, changing a CD - or even talking to a passenger which Plod will frown upon.

Not to mention wearing a loud shirt in a built-up area, walking on the cracks in the pavement - or being in possession of an offensive wife?

No doubt on 1 Dec, Pinky and Perky will be cruising in their nice warm Plodmobile looking for people driving with a hand against an ear. Much easier than catching muggers or other criminals.

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Some bloke in a 4x4 (assumption) has been uprooting fixed camera locations quite close to where I live. These are on a six lane wide dual carriageway and the speed limit there is 80kmh so his frustration has some justification. The cameras get repaired, re-erected and within a week they're down again.

Some people collect stamps.

[MightyGem]

Dare I say that, really, none of you object to the speed cameras. What you are objecting to is the fact that a) there is a speed limit which you should be obeying, and b) getting caught if you disregard it.

[Memetic]

Anyone know a cheap & portable way to send the right doppler shift back to a GATSO to trigger it?

I have always thought generating a few cycling or jogging GATSO pictures would be fun.

An assistant wibbling an thin metal sheet as the photographic models jog or ride past?

[BEagle]

No, Mighty Gem, what I really object to is the danger Plodcams cause to overtaking vehicles. Say you're behind a lorry stooging along at 50-55 on a normal 60 mph road. Before PLodcams, all you needed to do was to check the road ahead, mirror/signal, then accelearte briskly past until pulling back in front. Yes, you might briefly hit 75 or so, but I'm not saying you should drive consistently above the limit. But nowadays, cars overtake slowly at 60.0 mph for fear of being caught on Plodcams, particularly those positioned in the most revenue-effective spot. So the risk time is now 4 times as long with a 5 mph speed differential as it was previously.....and you might be the person coming the other way who wonders why that d*ckhead overtaking hasn't pulled in.

This part of the world treats motorists like hardened criminals; if Plod's toys are uprooted, few shed many tears........

Plodcams on the open road are symptomatic of a police state; however, to deter hatchback-yoof in built-up areas they do have some merit - better than that other Oxonian landmark, the speed hump!

[Scud-U-Like]

Doubtless legislation will soon be rushed through (a la mobile phone hysteria) to define what is and what is not a garage door opener:

Sunday Times 9 November 2003: Technology: Speeding into Stealth Mode (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2105-883978,00.html)

[whiz]

This site could be useful....

An official website showing the location of every fixed speed camera in England and Wales was due to go live yesterday. The website, here (www.nationalsafetycameras.co.uk) , is run by National Safety Camera Liaison, the body that co-ordinates the “local partnerships” that set up speed cameras.

[John Eacott]

Our feral State Gummint has put enormous revenue raising faith in these fixed speed camera's, and are about to come unstuck in a big way.

This article (http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,7849515%255E661,00.html) explains, but one poor lass was booked at 150+kph 8 months ago in a Datsun 120Y which has since been tested at Vne of 115kph, and is still before the courts! Mind you, the camera responsible has since been removed/replaced :rolleyes:

[John Eacott]

Things are going from bad to worse: Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,7859441%255E661,00.html) tells the story, but all speeding fines are currently on hold in Victoria, with the system almost totally discredited for accuracy.

Maybe they'll get back to proper policing :p