Pacific Blue recruitment:

[propaganda]

Has anyone heard about interviews at Pacific Blue.
Is Rishworth still involved?, and are they only taking NG rated pilot's.
I emailed Rishworth and am rated on the B733 but it appears that's not enough...........
:confused:

[Mr Mach Tuck]

It seems no one knows the PB Scheme....

I understood that they are to be up and running by Jan/Feb 2004... Which is fairly soon, so one has to ask what is the plan...?

Maybe they will use existing crews from VB to start the ball rolling..

Any other info out there??

:confused:

[Lapsus linguae]

Have had a brief discussion with the agent. NG is required. No money mentioned, would be keen to know how much. I 've seen the speculation on here too.

[NoseGear]

Better get that Aussie licence then soon boys. NZCAA wont put an NG rating (ie 7/8/900)series on your NZ licence as there are no NG's on the NZ register. Doesn't matter if you have a load of experience on them. I have several freinds flying the 777, but because there isnt one in NZ, no type rating on their NZ licence. However, the Aussie CASA, in all their wisdom, bless em, will type you from the 300 to the 800 series if you do a type rating on one or the other. They consider the type rating common to both series. That will of course change if PB put their aircraft on the NZ register, but what a song and dance that will be with those goofballs at NZCAA.

Nosey:yuk:

[Mr Mach Tuck]

Interesting comment about the NG rating on the New Zealand licence.... Maybe you want to check that mate... You may find some kiwi licences have had NG ratings on them longer than you think...

[NoseGear]

Mach Tuck, this is straight from the horses mouth, (or the more southerly exit). I tried to get my NG rating on to my NZ licence and this is what the NZCAA told me, with regard to the NG's not being on the kiwi register. If things have changed in the last 6 months then my apologies, or perhaps you can clarify the info you may have. I for one would certainly be interested :ok:

Nosey

[Australia2]

Refer previous post "Erosion of pay and conditions - What are we doing about it ? "

[Gravox]

heard also from the horses mouth, that unless you have an NG rating, then you will not even get an interview, at this stage anyway. Things will have to change i find it hard to believe that they will get the numbers that they require otherwise.

[luna landing]

See Friday's Australian newspaper - large Ad for Flight Crew

Type Rated and Non Type Rated - Captains and F/Os

Applications close 10 November 2002 ???? :confused:

[DeltaT]

careful, non type rated still require 500 multi pic, and then the money to pay for the rating

[Classic Dick]

Full page advertisement in Flight International 28th October - 3rd November.

Wreaks of Richard B. getting desperate. Hold out for a bit lads and you just may find you'll get a nice new 737-7/8 rating compliments of Sir Dick. (Not a relation of mine, unfortunately)

[DeltaT]

yeah he could be getting desperate, but its also self promotion, just like what easyjet do.
I think there are still enough type rated people out there, unless they make it tuff for overseas conversion.

[anti-skid]

This paying for your own 737 rating business :mad:
me off! Nothing more than a bunch of tight arse twits
driving ticket prices down at the expense of flight crew!

I hereby give the single finger salute to companies that
expect individuals to fund themselves all the way to the
r/h seat and then pay them below par:yuk: If I cant get
a job without paying for a boeing/airbus rating well thats
just fine by me. A simple "Thanks but no-thanks, money
doesnt grow on trees Mr Blue/Mr Freedom" should suffice.

:ok:

[slice]

Noble sentiments anti-skid, but Aircrew employment being the wildest, most savage jungle there is (survival of the richest), your voice will be drowned out by thousands shouting ME! ME! ME! ME! ME! ME! :oh:

[propaganda]

Anti Skid'

I couldn't agree more with your sentiments....however,In this day and age the bean counters rule.. and we better learn to live with it.....:cool:

[Bombay]

Well, if the general concensus is that we will "have to learn to live with it", then let no man grizzle in 1 years time that the pay and conditions STILL haven't improved, and now we're all $30,000 down!

I mean, let's get real guys! We all moan about how "the company isn't looking after us the way they should", and yet some idiots are prepared to accept that AND pay an additional $30,000 for the priviledge!

I think we need to stand fast on this one as an industry.

In the "good old days", airlines would employ based on whether you were, as a person, worth investing $X in and whether you were a good investment long term.

QANTAS used to say that by the time someone got a 747 command, the airline had invested $1 million in them over the years in training etc. That was why the emphasis was on employing "future captains", rather than someone to fill a F/O position.

Now it seems that the interviews are nothing but a farce, and the big question is "Are you prepared to pay?" I'm sure you all agree that if the answer is no, then no job!

I'm sick of hearing people moaning about how we need to fight for our pay and conditions, and the next day, the very same people are rushing off to buy jet ratings!

The stench of hipocrasy is overwhelming here guys. What are we going to do about it? Really?

Bombay

[Damien Toohey 64]

I could not agree with you more 'Anti-Skid'. When will this erosion end. When will people stop saying yes sir. Pretty soon all you guys will think its okay to pay $120 per hour to sleep with your girl because there are plenty of other blokes who would be happy just to be in your shoes.
Stand up and be counted men; for what you believe in.

Personally, I think the accumulated $70 000 I've spent is quite enough. Whats next, pay your own compulsory super......:)

[stillalbatross]

Rishworth are payed a lump sum for the contract, so I would say there will be a flat per annum rate that includes virtually nothing. Remember the dutch auction they had a few years back for a command? :p

[Tape It Shut]

It is easy to rubbish people that buy jet ratings. What you are forgetting is the nepotism that exists in the airlines like Qantas and Air New Zealand. It's basically who you know rather than an on merit process for many successful applicants. Then there are the people who are rejected for not having obtained certain schooling qualifications or nowadays even the standard double university degree.

To just have the required hours means nothing. You need to have stacks of hours, plenty of jet time, excellent school achievement, double university degree etc. This, as every person knows does not make you a better pilot than plain old Joe Average who may not have any school qualifications.

The answer for Joe Average is to buy his rating and in a very short period of time be a B737 Captain. Nobody would pay for their rating if they could all secure a job with Air NZ or Qantas. The reality is there are people who never will. Pacific Blue is a great opportunity for these people.

[anti-skid]

You bring up some very valid points Tape It Shut, but "Its
not what you know but who you know" has proven to be
an effective way to weed out the arseholes:}


GO THE ALLBLACKS and the SCOTS!!:ok:

[Gnadenburg]

Tape It Shut

Is that a clarification ie: Captain Joe Average pays for his own jet rating?

Next thing is Captain Joe Below Average paying for ICUS time so he gets some 737 hours to be in the shot with the 2000 other pilots in the hold pool waiting for a chance to interview with Emirates. That's if EK's conditions haven't deteriorated.

Captain Joe Average is a friend of Captain Below Average so the nepotism and cronyism that plagues other low cost carriers accross the Tasman similar at PoohBlue.

But the market is saturated with underpaid 737 drivers and companies like EK look more "favourably" upon widebody experience. Poor Joe Average!

With the 737 making a transition similar to that of the DC3 in the 50's & 60's (everybody has one) will Average and Below Average make a stand and stop the slide?

Blue Collar's buying a profession!

[Tape It Shut]

Gnadenburg,

"Blue Collar's buying a profession!"

Blue-collar worker undertakes to carry out mainly manual labour while a white-collar worker undertakes to carry out mainly intellectual labour.

Many people would class a pilot as a blue-collar worker just like a bus or truck driver. I would not consider that a huge amount of intellect was required to fly an aeroplane.

You appear to be from a privileged background, the fortunate son type given your blue-collar comment. I have met pilots who transitioned from labour type work to be professional pilots with relative ease. I am sorry but the professional pilot domain is not exclusively for the privileged in this modern world.

[Oktas8]

I see a trend here.

Decades ago (if my knowledge is correct) many airline pilots came through the military, and those that didn't needed only to pay for their own basic CPL, as the airline would take them on and fund instrument rating, multi rating etc. Airline captains were treated like kings if the biographies are to be believed.

Then we civilian pilots needed to pay our own way into piston twins, but the airlines still funded instrument ratings. Pilots were treated like viceroys.

Nowadays, paying for one's own initial turboprop or jet conversion is increasingly common, and pilots are treated like senior managers.

I wonder where this will end? I don't mean that in a rhetorical way, as I am genuinely curious what the face of aviation in 2050 will be like. I suspect that the pilots of the 90's and 00's will be envied by the pilots of the 2050's for the excellent pay & conditions.

In the mean time, my aeroplane does barrel rolls at random intervals, and that's worth the puny salary. :) :) :)
(Oh yes, my students have learned the true meaning of an oh-so-casual "so is your seatbelt tight?")

cheers to all,
O8

[Willie Nelson]

Tape it shut,

What you are saying about Qantas and ANZ is, IMHO is far from the full story. While there does seem to be a trend toward a certain educational background at QF and knowing someone may HELP get your foot in the interview door, the rest is up to you. I know of many relatives, etc. that got early interviews and were subsequently shown the wrong side of the door.

At DJ the interviews are apparently based almost exclusively on personality and genealogy. OK, if they don't like you, your stuffed, but if your so and so's mate or son, and they do like you, you are in almost regardless of your technical skills. There are some definite pros and cons to both depending on who you do or don't know and what your educational background is. But to say that QF recruitment is based on solely on nepotism is a load of rubbish. As for a double degree I don't know of anybody AT ALL who has two degrees flying for QF. I am sure there are some but I would be surprised if it were more than 3%.

(I have not yet had my interview at QF and I do not know anyone at DJ therefore it shall be some time yet for them too.)


Willie

[Gnadenburg]

TIShut

The Blue Collar remark is what seems desperation to pay 20 or 30 or 40 thousand Kiwi dollars to buy a NG endorsement. Then cop the conditions on offer that will require 5 years of savings to pay off the endorsement.

On a previous thread I noted you remarked that it was a good investment as if you wanted to make money you could wander off to the Sandpit -where the "easy" money was to be made. I am cautioning you to have a good look at the market and be realistic.

Again due your clarrification, Captain Joe Average who pays for his endorsement, could deteriorate into Captain Well Below Average. As it doesn't take a whole lot of intellect to fly a jet aeroplane!

Oktas

2050 eh and pilots?

The RAAF is ordering pilotless jets. A flow on to civilian aviation? Maybe, but I feel in 2050 New Zealand pilots will still be around cause they are cheaper than microprocessors!

[Oktas8]

NZ pilots cheaper than??? That sounds like it was meant to be an insult, but if so it went over my head. I remain uninsulted.

As to pilotless civilian jets, hmm, probably not that soon I think. Fly by wire was around for a while in military jets before Boeing started using it, and removing both pilots is a whole lot more controversial.

It's more likely Qantas will be expecting new entrants to already have a self-funded 737 (or 797 or whatever) rating, and will be offering less pay for the privilege.

O8

[Arctaurus]

Gnadenburg

".........A flow on to civilian aviation? Maybe, but I feel in 2050 New Zealand pilots will still be around cause they are cheaper than microprocessors!"

Yes, but microprocessors have more computing capacity.

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

:D :D

[Who killed Kenny?]

OK, a reply to Tape it Shut, your original comment at the top of this page really is just a load of whinging rubbish. Having just heard that I have just got an interview with Air NZ I would have to disagree totally with the nepotism comment. Try as I did, asking my dad the farmer if he knew any Air NZ747 skippers that could help me into the big company was unfortunately pointless. However before I went and got a great big loan for my CPL, I worked my arse off in shearing sheds and various factories earning enough cash to go through Uni. Yes, maybe you have a point regarding qualifications, as I'm damn sure my BSc is going to help me ****loads when the No 2 donk is on fire! Then again, spending 30 grand on a university education can't be as bad as those who lower the entire industry's job conditions by purchasing ratings. Obtaining degree's only increases the qualifications of the pilot body whereas forking out the equivalent amount of cash for a rating eventually stuffs it for everyone. So here's an idea, instead of moaning about what you don't have, do what a friend of mine is doing and get pro-active, join up to a Uni and get that degree.

[EPIRB]

Tape It Shut, I did Year 12 twice and got off my arse later on in life and got the required education to be considered by Qantas. I also had no relatives working there and come from a blue collar background. I wanted to be an airline pilot so I made the sacrifices to achieve it. And that is exactly what Qantas likes to see because they know you'll be dedicated. And as it's their train set, I guess it's up to them to set the educational requirements. All they want to be able to do is to tick the box, they aren't interested in your marks. So if you want something bad enough, you'll go and do what is required to achieve that goal. Believe me, it works.

[Tape It Shut]

It is interesting that people have concluded from my post that I believe every person that gets into Air NZ/Qantas is through nepotism. My wording is "many of the successful applicants". If you were to study the names of the most senior pilots at Air NZ and the least senior you would find many names are the same.

As for getting off my arse and getting a university degree rather than fork out cash for a 737 rating, I see these as being identical, except that the 737 rating can be obtained more quickly. A university degree is not a mark of intelligence or proficiency, but simply a sign that the person has regurgitating abilities.

If you want to stop people buying ratings and undermining present conditions then you should suggest to the most senior pilots at Air NZ that on obtaining the age of 60 and being unable to fly in US airspace they retire rather than come back as first officers and second officers (retreads). These people have had the best run of careers and have multi-million dollar super funds and are basically greedy and have no interest in the next generation of pilots.

[Whiskery]

A university degree is not a mark of intelligence or proficiency, but simply a sign that the person has regurgitating abilities.


What degree did you obtain TIS on the ability to regurgitate ?

[Farcome]

Tape it shut

I agree it could be said that the pilot is similar in a way to the blue collar worker, however the average airline pilot is subject to stringent operating procedures, numerous proficiency checks per annum and strict recency requirements to name a few. Quite different to the average front end loader driver who gets his ticket and off he goes scenario.

As a passenger on an airline service, I would prefer that my pilots flying were from a background that included riding motorbikes around dads farm, driving a bobcat, coming from a blue collar mechanical trade or generally had a life that included practical activities than the straight A nerd who could redefine the theory of relativity, (providing of course that the 'blue collar' pilot had reasonable intelligence). As said earlier the degree wouldn't do much for the #2 engine fire.

Ask any instructor with considerable experience as to what are the easiest students to teach. I'll bet anything that they will tell you that its those with 'hands on' background I (p)referred to earlier.

Back to the thread subject- If you pay peanuts you'll get monkeys.


:cool:

[The Bullwinkle]

From a personal point of view, I would have to say that a degree is more of an indicator of persistence and dedication, particularly if the required study is undertaken whilst holding down a job, and maintaining a family.

The attributes of persistence and dedication are certainly viewed favourably by airlines.

As for the subject of paying for endorsements, I am sure that the attention of self-funded students is a lot higher than those who are being given a rating. I know that the instructors at ETA don't have problems with their students arriving late or falling asleep in class!!!

[Gnadenburg]

Bull

Shallow argument because of the following-

A trainee supported by a well paying career airline like QF, has every reason to work as hard as our buy a job chap. As a six figure position is on the line . And there is training attrition, about 4% at a former incumbant.

A pilot who purchases a 20 day conversion, as opposed to a professional airlines more standard pre-line training two month conversion, had better pay attention as that is a real skinny time frame.

Paid Endorsements has been the single greatest degradation in pilot conditions in this region.

Who started it? QF Cadets, Impulse, Virgin Blue, Freedom?

[slice]

Am I right in assuming that it is now possible in ANZ that the youngest guy on the flight deck could be the commander at age 59.5 - FARCARNELL !!!! - they will have to put in a power socket to recharge the pacemakers, install colostomy bag hooks, special grip bars in the toilet, wheelchair access for the flight deck, medication dispenser trays in the glareshield marked 0100z, 0200z, 0300z, 0400z etc. etc. special cockpit defribulator, EFIS running in Windows high visibility large font mode!:}

Only joking of course but this could lead to some interesting cockpit authority gradients!!!

[Tape It Shut]

Air New Zealand looks at people with degrees and certain levels of tertiary education simply to cull the number of applicants. They have thousands of people to choose from and therefore thousands to weed out.

If you go back many moons you will learn that when NAC needed pilots to fly the DC3 they went round asking other employees who would like to be a pilot. Those that put their hands up had their training for free. It could be said that the first person that went and got his own CPL ruined it for everyone else. This is simply nonsense as it is all just simply supply and demand.

There are predictions the future will be grim based on people paying for ratings. What they fail to consider is the baby boomers will all be retired / dead and due to their low birth rates their will be very few young people around. I think supply and demand will see companies agressively hunting the limited numbers. I suggest that Air New Zealand even now is contemplating some form of cadet pilot scheme.

The real problem for everyone now is that the baby boomers are still in the workforce and, as I have previously stated, refuse to retire. This creates very slow progress for people wishing to enter places like Air NZ and allows the selection criteria to get to the level it is. It is simply a massive oversupply of pilots that is creating the present day phenomenon of paying for your own rating.

As I have mentioned before tell those retreads to xx!@##@! off.

[amos2]

Tape has said...

"As I have mentioned before tell those retreads to xx!@##@! off."

One wonders what Tape may say in a few years time when he is a "retread" himself.

Somehow, I think I know the answer!

[anti-skid]

I certainly dont hold any great career aspirations after 60:zzz:

[Tape It Shut]

What would make a person a retread?

1. They have lost their shirt in some bad investment
2. They have nothing else in their life except flying
3. Their friends retired and basically dropped dead the next day

I think they are losers and I am working my hardest not to join them. If I could I would retire now.

[Loc-out]

Anyone been extended the common courtesy of a reply from Rishworth yet?

Is this the outfit run by a guy that calls himself "Captain" Jack Priest? Captain? Captain of what?

[splatgothebugs]

Passing by a news paper in a crew room the other day I noticed a big heading.


'' Ex origin Pacific boss to lead Pacific Blue"

Now I appologise but I didn't have time to read it. Can abody fill the forum in as to who (which one of the bosses) it is.

splat
:ok:

[BCF Breath]

I think it is Tony Marks.
He was with them on TV the other night. Thought I recognised the name.

[BundyBlack]

CEO Tony Marks
Man Flt Ops T. Parrish
Man Flt Stds B. Mahon
Head of Engineering P. Morgan
Quality Assurance A. Fergusson
Head of Finance J. Hughes

[Tape It Shut]

"What degree did you obtain TIS on the ability to regurgitate ?"

The gaining of any qualification always involves reguritation.

Go to lecture - Blah, Blah, Blah
Read and study information - Blah, Blah, Blah
Sit test - Blah, Blah, Blah

The ATPL examinations are a classic example and most people assign the information to their brains recycle bin once they have passed.

Unless you are creating the information or theory, then you are simply reguritating. I do not have a degree so this is why I am considering the B737 rating.

[Who killed Kenny?]

Man TIS you're a classic. In one sentence you tell everyone about how the degree process works and in the next you say that you don't have one. What are your qualifications in respect to your inside knowledge of the degree process? I suspect that maybe your last name is Bloxham. My science degree required stuff all regurgitation, instead a heap of lab work, a problem would be set, you would formulate a hypothesis and then spend the next couple of days in the lab either proving or disproving this hypothesis.
I hate to think what kind of know-it-all you are on the flight deck. If faced with a problem do you actually look at the QRH or do you already know has to fix everthing? Stop the sweeping statements fella, they do nothing for you other than destroy your credibility.

[Eurocap]

Capt Jack Priest should read Capt Jack Priest Ret.

I believe he used to fly for AirNZ.

[Tape It Shut]

Who killed Kenny?

"Heaps of lab work"

How did the hours spent in the lab compare to the hours spent in lectures. Lab work is where you got to formulate a hypothesis based on regurgitating the information you learned. The majority of people would I suspect find a similar solution to the lab problem based on having the same knowledge as you.

I'm sorry if I appear an arrogant S.O.B but you will not convince me that a degree or any other qualification is other than an indicator that you obtained some knowledge and regurgitated it.

My wife is doing some papers on a part-time basis. Having watched the process it appears to be as I have stated. The real question is do academics make good pilots.

From the Oxford Dictionary

Academic – scholarly, of university, abstract, unpractical, member of university