The Gulf Airlines

[Jim Morehead]

Many of you read the Far East and the Middle east forums. Since we have been talking about Asia and China Airlines recently,I would like those of you experienced and living/lived in the Gulf to post your views and thoughts of what life and aviation would be like.

I would like you to be factual and not critical. There be some commonalities why people travel around the world to fly airplanes and would certainly like a perspective that I can't get otherwise nor do I have.

I have been reading the Middle East forum for about a year when I started hunting for a job last year. From my viewpoint, it appears that there are Emirates and Gulf Air as the big guys. I think both are currently hiring DE Captains. I do not know the relative size of Saudia nor how many other airlines are there.

I've been on six continents and near the seventh. I was in Iran in the mid-1970s when on a visit visting a Captain there. I have been through a few of the Middle East cities and obviously much of their wealth comes from oil. I am not sure it is tourism.

I also know that Americans are not exactly poster Kids in that part of the world and perhaps not for Brits,Aussies, and others from other places in the world.

But I am curious what one does for fun and excitement there. Obviously we are talking about a number of regions there and I know one size doesn't fit all. But I know most of the area is hot and has lots of deserts. A person's view who has never lived there has the perception that everybody lives in the desert,has a big sandbox, owns a fleet of camels, and has an oil well in their backyard. A further perception is that women run around in black robes,men in white, and buying a beer would be extremely difficult. I realize this is a rather generic perception of the area,but what does one do for fun when living there between airplane trips?

I'll presume(like on the Taipei question on the Far East Thread) that some people have their families there and others don't. I would guess that some people love it there and others can't wait to get out of town either on days off or pray that the crew desk keeps them working all of the time anywhere.

I think you understand what I am asking. I would like any of your to share views of just how good it is or how bad it is.

Thanks

[cpt744]

A further perception is that women run around in black robes,men in white, and buying a beer would be extremely difficult.
I can't help but sharing this part with you.. what you said above is NOT perception, this is what you see and what you WILL experience in that part of the world.. even in Dubai and Bahrain in general. In the former city you might see some occasions of relaxation in terms of dress code but finding a can of beer from supermart is still out of question; unless you like non-alchoholic Carlsberg...

[mutt]

And yet i have a number of Middle East Expats who departed to greeners pastures (USA) and came back for the peace and quiet of the Middle East.................... :)

Dont believe all that you read in the news......

Mutt

[sinave]

I am new in this forum. I am presently employed with Air Canada and having the opportunity to take a vacation without pay since pilots are being furloughed. I will be looking for employment in the gulf for one to two years but I have some difficulties to evaluate the cost of living in general in Bahrain. With the weak US dollars, is it comparable to the US or Canada or EU? Any info will be appreciated.
Jean-Luc

[Jim Morehead]

thanks to those of you who took the time to provide informaton and sipell or confirm some facts and rumors. Other information would certainly be appreciated.

I think one of the more prolific statements that was made here ,but that there is no place like home. When you leave your home to travel or to live or work, you have to expect that life will not be like it was.

To the 340 jock, it sounds like some places in the Gulf are more family oriented because they do provide greater housing and schools that other places don't. But was mentioned on the other forum, many people simply leave their families in their home country and spend 2/3rds or more away from them.

It appears that there are two major hiring areas for pilots in 2003 and those being Asia and the Gulf. Most all other parts of the world are stable with locals or are downsizing like most major carriers in North American and Canada.

So,just like on the Far East Forum, people seeking a job flying airline airplanes have to decide what sacrifices they wish to make.

Further to the Gulf, I noted that Emirates web site indicates that pilots get 42 days off per year vacation. That certainly sounds like a lot. Do you have to do that for sanity or do you get your hours in for the year and still have that much time off.

What are monthly schedules like?

I am curious to compare notes because my former carrier had a pure bidding system with seniority and my current one does not. Seniority has minimum impact now and you are assigned a schedule every month based on the needs of the service.

I noted that Emirates appears to rotate seniority so that no one is "adversely affected". But it sounds like for people with families who would like 1 or 2 day trips, they may be available. For those who would prefer to be gone most of the time because they don't like where they fly from or don't have their families with them.

From talking to some Singapore guys, they seem to ahve those based in SIN and those not based in SIN who have schedules like 8 on and 8 off which rarely change.

I would like to know more just to put things in perspective from the Gulf area.

[sinave]

Thanks A340Jock, appreciate your time and info . Jean-Luc

[fatbus]

Jim,
At EK the 777 does 2 day europes/uk and 4 - 7day asia/oz. The 330 manly 2 day europe 3-4 day asia and right now most of the sub contitent. 10 -15 days off/month,some guys take vacation here just to play golf or go to the beach. It,s hot in the summer so families tend to get away from the heat if they can, there is lot,s to do inside(same as the Canadian Prarrie;s in the winter-40)

The bid system is about to change in Jan to Adopt, we use to be able to bid 8 days off at a go but that will change.

There will be 7 bid groups, so the bottem 2-3 you will not get much of the good stuff.

Dubai for the most part is very western, no real restrictions for you or your wife and kids. My 3 ( Wife and 2 kids) love it here.
Good schools, can be hard to get into.

Housing is the wild card. There are some area's that are nicer than others, but the villas/apts themselves are very nice.

Like I said most guys really like it here and only a few make noise.
The recent change calling for DE capt,s has alot of talk, but if we fly the planes we make more profit and that should make everyone happy

hope that helps

[tradewinds]

Can any of you old hands in the Gulf read the tea leaves on the future of the airlines in the ME region. Some questions:

1.With all the new ones mushrooming, is there long term traffic for all?
2. With Abu Dhabi and Oman pumping more money into their own carriers, will Gulf Air suffer? Has there been a loss of crews to these new guys, and how have Gulf Air's expansion plans been affected?
3. What's the future of TransGulf, Air Arabia and of the low-cost model?
4. Are the Emirs commercially savvy in their desire to have their own airlines, or does nationalistic fervour trump good business?
5. Are pilot pay scales likely to go up with this increasing competition for crews, or are there long waiting lists of expats still waiting in the wings?
....etc....etc...etc...

[on_the_go]

Sinave, Jean-Luc
Send me a pm with your email and I can help you out if you'd like.
One of the 317