Is it really all that bad

[whereisjohn]

Hope to get a little insight from those who live or spent some time in Cape Town.

Is it really all that bad re: crime and safety or are people just overreacting? Thinking of making a move and just wanted to get a bit of insight.


Thanks.

[Rhodie]

Great place for a holiday if you have pounds stirling...:E

Too expensive for us lot that actually live in SA - mainly because the tourists love the place, prices go up and if you have property there now - KEEP IT.

Only place you can have three different weather patterns, all at the same time, at different parts of the peninsula... :cool: :* :confused:

Some of the best scenery in the world (well, this part of it, anyway), and the most laid back locals you can find anywhere, plus the best looking girls in the land (except for the ex-wife, who still lives there :} )

The once best vibe areas from a few years back are now no-go, but if you stay with the local crowd and watch yer back, you'll be OK.

Did I mention the girls...??? :ok:

[fireitup]

w.i.j

Cape town is a great place, crime is not bad at all if you use that common sense and keep the eyes peeled!

Can't say much more than Rhodie did, definately the most scenic.
Peninsula becomes a bit crowded over Dec/Jan. Feb is probally the best time. Locals really friendly, weather after Nov is usually good except for the roaring "Doctor" on the odd days leading up to xmas.

If you are wanting to fly, c.t's aviation industry quite small and closed up, unless the connections are good!

Check www.gocapetown.co.za

Nothing better than enjoying a cold one at one of the camps bay bars on the sidewalk, with mates watching the girls go by:ok:

[126.9]

Most of this stuff is true, but not all of it! but if you stay with the local crowd and watch yer back, you'll be OK. Tell that to André Viljoen of SAA: he took a bullet in the back of his head after work one night when a handful of criminals overpowered him in his car!

[George Tower]

Having lived in Cape Town since 1996 I suppose I am reasonably qualified to give my opinion on the place.

Quite simply it's one of the most beautiful cities in the world. You have the sea the mountain, the wine estates, some great golf courses etc etc.

Unlike other parts of Africa you do get four seasons in Cape Town, although quite often on one day. It does have some of it's own little weather phenomena - during one approach the wind changed direction by 180 degrees within the space of a few hundred feet.

As for the people I think they're great but it's often said that they're cliquey & that people from Jo'burg are friendlier. Women are certainly much better than in the UK.

As for the crime - well by the grace of God I haven't been involved in any incidents. The thing is most of my friends have and the statistics don't make for good reading.

[squire]

According to this site SA has 21,000 murders a year and a woman is raped every 23 seconds. Over 1 ,000,000 women and children raped annually.

http://www.hixnet.co.za/home/kel/sacp.html

hmmm those beaches must be real gems!:uhoh:

[PAXboy]

The figures on rapes were discredited. When I was in ZA earlier in the year, I read a most helpful article showing where the original figures had come from and how they had been extrapolated in a ridculous journo manner.

Whether murders have also been infalted - I cannot say. But gathering statistics in Africa has always been an art.

[George Tower]

If we are going to talk about the crime issue alone we will end up painting a very negative picture of SA.

I think the key difference between South Africa and say the UK is that life is cheap in Africa. In the UK most muders are not random affairs - they are either gang or drug related, or crimes of passion, perversion or revenge. In SA a great deal of murder occurs in the course of other crimes such as robbery, mugging and hijackings. Its not uncommon also for women to be raped during the course of house burgalry. The criminal justice system is also a joke. So most are never caught & those that are, will either escape punishment or just plainly escape from custody.

But to me the decision isn't just about crime. The UK for instance is an overcrowded island - just a fifth the size of SA but with about another 20m people. Your average Brit spends most his time working hard to pay his mortgage and then most of his leisure time getting pissed in the pub in between complaining about the weather, the government and why we never win at sport (fingers crossed that might change). Traffic congestion is also a nightmare. In SA there is an infinitely better quality of lifestyle available. Other than first class sports & leisure, restaurants are actually staffed with people that are pleased to serve you, and the food is much better. School children actually know how to behave and respect other people.

[Rhodie]

AGREED G / T

You could also mention that here on the darkest continent, we can drive outa the city for an hour or so and instead of falling off the edge of the world, we can be in paradise of any description you want - from the raw bush to 5 star luxury surrounded by nature. The beers and wines are affordable, and since our (ex) minister of health is now concentrating on preventing the US forces from invading (by buying a submarine...?), we can still have a smoke if we want, after a lunch of prime steak...

Yup, you may lose your car getting outa the city, in a hi-jack, you do have to dodge overloaded taxi's and the odd rock or two and pray that the truck heading towards you has still got brakes and a steering that works. You do have to make sure your insurance is paid up and all the security doors and gates locked and the Rotweillers haven't been fed for three days and are prowling the perimeter razor-wire fence so's that all your hard earned toys will still be at home when you get back, and not subjected to 'affirmative shopping' and re-located...

But hey - Africa's not for sissies... :D

[George Tower]

Other than crime I'm reminded of transport differences between SA and UK.

Firstly there is the issue of drink-driving. On the UK that is a strictly taboo. It is just something you don't do. I reckon it would be easier to tell my parents I'm gay than to have to tell them I killed someone while under the influence. In SA it seems an unspoken rule that it is just OK and in fact I have had people protest that I should continue drinking never mind the fact I must drive. The reason they always give is public transport or rather the lack of.

Public transport itself is something which in both countries can ammuse and drive you to depsair in equal measure. My South African friends are in awe of our public transport system. Ironically you'd be hard pressed to find a member of the British public with anything complimentary to say about it. A few years ago British Rail announced that trains were running late due to "leaves on the line" and "the wrong type of snow" fell - for all that think that might be the British sense of humour coming through it wasn't, they were genuine excuses.

In SA well where do we start. In fact I think the trains in SA are a minor miracle in so far as they keep going given they date from goodness knows when. It's usual to see lots of people on the outsides of carriages clinging on for dear life something which I'm sure is illegal. I have read many times that trains have been cancelled due to overhead power cables being stolen and even a section of track was pinched in somewhere like Khayelitscha or Mitchells Plain. The most revolting thing I ever saw on a train in SA was an African woman defacte on the platform.

As for the taxis I suggest you read a post on the Camp Fire - side splittingly funny and a very truthful account of how these monkeys drive.

So to conclude a car is essential.

[squire]

Monkeys! Monkeys?..............Oh dear here we go

[Gerund]

No it's not really all that bad, it's worse - a lot worse. Just a word of advice if you do decide to come over - avoid the boeremeisies; stark raving mad the whole lot of them!

[B Sousa]

Gerund Writes:"avoid the boeremeisies; stark raving mad the whole lot of them!"


NOW you tell me......Im married to one and she likes it here in Vegas............

[Gerund]

B Sousa

Good luck old chap!

[freightboss]

Fist off I would like to say thanks to all the real South Africans who at least have the decency to say something positive about our beautiful country.

GT, Rhodie et al, thanks guys.


Where are you John,

Yes, we do have our problems and yes so does every country in world. But YES, we also have the best of everything else, with Cap Town probably at the front.

I am not going to go into the details of what you can do and see where, I'll leave that up to you to sort out, after all its all part of the experience. But if you stay away from the type of places that you normally stay away from in the UK, you will most definitely be fine.

The positives:

Beer is cheap, steaks are cheap, fish and chips are cheap. Probably ,most important for a prospective aviator with pounds, flying is cheap.

You are welcome to come and explore our country, eat sleep and fly and enjoy the gifts of the Cape.

If you listen to all the negative posts, and decide to give it a miss on that basis, well: tough s**t.

Lastly, to all the guys (interesting that you guys are immenently the ones that ran away) that tend to bring up only the negatives, if you have nothing positive to say about my country - please do all South Africans the courtesy and SHUT UP...

[squire]

Yes quite correct why should peep's be fully informed, I agree completely ! Entire families should make this decision based on an entirely lop-sided view point!
After all thats what the constitution was based on ......hohohoho:p :}
but things improve look!
JOHANNESBURG - South Africa's banks and financial institutions have committed themselves to being at least 25 per cent black owned by 2010.

This means at least R50 billion ($12 billion) in assets must be in black hands within the next seven years. At least 10 per cent of the 25 per cent needs to be direct control, and the other 15 per cent indirect control. The country's banks, insurance companies and financial institutions are currently valued at R200 billion.

The commitment from the banks to speed up the process of black economic empowerment forms part of the financial services charter, which was unveiled by finance minister Trevor Manuel in Pretoria on Friday.

"The charter takes forward the notions of empowerment in a way I personally find very satisfying," said Manuel. "There is a new benchmark."

A year in the making, the charter aims to transform the financial services sector as part of the government's broader black economic empowerment aims. It will seek to address not only imbalances in ownership but also employment equity, procurement and access to banking services for black South Africans.

The financial sector has also committed itself to providing about R75 billion for empowerment financing.

The charter will run until the end of December 2014 and each financial institution will have to publish an annual report on its progress.

The companies have agreed that by 2008 they will have:

* 20-25 per cent black representation at senior management level (four per cent of whom must be black women),
* 30 per cent at middle management level (10 per cent must be black women),
* 40-50 per cent black at junior level (11 per cent black women)
* At least 33 per cent representation of black people at board level.

One bank chief executive said that while the employment equity targets were achievable, they would be a tough ask. He felt that attrition levels of whites at senior levels in the bank might need to be accelerated to achieve some of the targets.

While the charter is voluntary and there are no penalties for companies that don't meet the targets, Manuel did point out that the government could use the threat of losing government contracts to force companies to comply.

- INDEPENDENT NEWSPAPERS (SOUTH AFRICA)

[whereisjohn]

That's for all the posts and info...

FREIGHTBOSS -- thanks for the sensible response and suggestions. Will definetly try my luck as the good seems to outweight the bad.

Cheers for all the help guys!