What's your biggest gripe ?

[whogivesa????]

Seems everybody is whingeing about GA and airlines at the moment.
So.... IF some journo were to interview you for an " in depth and researched expose" (HA, like THAT will ever happen), what would you like to say ?

Personally I would probably wax philosophically about the amount of scumbag bosses out there, and how we are treated like ****t, and paid bugggga all whilst doing work that should be respected and rewarded. How no boss will ever put you on a salary, yet you are on call 24/7!

still... I love the work!

[StraightnLevel]

My biggest Gripe at the moment would be the increasing bumps as the wet season approaches. I hate the smell of vomit!!!!

As for the work conditions, I get paid above the award, fly air worthy aircraft and get treated with respect. There ARE good GA companies out there!!!!, its just a shame there's a lot of dodgy ones aswell.

I was once told that "if you pay peanuts you will get monkeys."

SnL

[splatgothebugs]

The way we are all treated...............................having to work 3 jobs to make a living.

To top it off in NZ a pilot can't get the dole to supplement his/her income because you can't actively look for full time employment.(thought thats what we where doing)

The lengths we go to, to do something we love ah :)

[Mr. Hat]

I'd highlight how many uni/flying school students are put thru every year only to give it away due to a lack of jobs. How many people do you know have a 40k debt and a piece of paper the only thing to show for it. I know quite a few.

The main point being that these kids are being fooled and tricked out of their money only to end up broke and drive down industry standards.

[the wizard of auz]

I think I would have a moan about how the girls don't swoon and fall at your feet when told your a pilot. they were meant to become awed and fighting each other to get to me, once I got me uniform on.....................It aint happening as advertised. ;)

[QNIM]

My biggest gripe is getting shafted from pprune because of some hiccup with these bloody computers, have had withdrawal symptoms for the last three months, but thanks to Rob in pprune towers all is ok now.Hey wiz how could you fall for that load cr@p? my bed is still empty also. Cheers Q

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Wiz, so would it then stand to reason that it would actually not really soley be bosses treating pilots like crap, but also pilots misconceptions about the apprenticeship.

My early years as a pilot have been no different to my early years as an apprentice sparky, so i feel some pilots need to quit bitching and do the job you're paid so poorly for, if you don't like it change jobs or leave the industry and go through the crap of being inexperienced in another industry.

All BS aside flying be it GA or whatever is a load better job than pumping petrol or pulling beers.

[Max Range]

Good to see you back QNIM. Tell the truth though - your bed is not empty due to the lack of offers is it? Perhaps you should do a few more of those Adelaide charters huh?;)

[the wizard of auz]

LHRT, mate I wouldnt know about the boss bit, I am the boss. it certainly aint the pilots misconceptions of the apprenticeship either, we only believe what the good training folk told us when we were getting our licences.
I made heaps more dollars as an deisel fitter than I do flying, but its a bastard of a job.............. and who knows, maybe the uniform will work one day. (never pulled a sheila in me greasy overalls).

Heya!, Max range, how did ya go with that stuff I sent ya?

[Max Range]

Stuff was great thanks Wiz - in fact I had it out a couple of weeks ago to refresh my memory before doing my AFR with QNIM!
Have you finished your CPL(H) yet?
:ok:

[QNIM]

Max
The A/C was servicable after so has to be a have been a pass. Cheers Q

Max
Lets forget the Adelaide trip as I have in vain.
Thanks Sweety Q

[the wizard of auz]

Lets just say, I now have the ability to hover......... unlike some others around that wish they had the ability to hover ;) .
I also tried to hover in a 172 whilst working once............ Its bloody difficult..... even when ya really really want to, wouldnt you agree, QNIM???. :} ;)

[QNIM]

Hey Wiz who has been telling you stories, thems all lies. Cheers Q

[bush mechanics]

Ok guys lets take all the soo called dodgy bosses and all there soo called dodgy a/c,and all there soo called dodgy companys,and all there soo called dodgy wages and remove them from exsistance.What have we left?
ANS:Heaps of pilots and no jobs!!
Qns. How come everytime some pilots get a knock back on a job there answers are normally that the company was dodgy in the first place and the boss is a C@#k and they didnt realy want a job anyway.
Then theres the bosse who make you do something you dont want to do.
No ones holding a gun to your head!!Eccept your soo called mates(fellow aviators)telling you to stand up for your self.Normally these guys are ones waiting next in line for your job.
remember GA for most is the steping stones for something bigger and better.Soo get on with it,As long as you keep your personal standards high you probaly wont have too much grief!!
Happy Flying

[getmeoutovga]

geez mate with your attitude we might as well be a third world country. A decent days work deserves a decent days pay end of story. For all the jokers out there comparing it to an apprentiship, yeah except you are getting paid to learn as an apprentice. So why dont we just scrap cpl training where the student pays and convert it to a system like plumbing or building where they pay us to learn:p :p :p Sorry i nearly wet myself from laughter

Just because something is shizenhousen doesnt meen you have to put up with it.

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Getmeoutofga, i have an ATPL, why then doesn't Qantas give me a 747 command ?, or Virgin a 737 command.

If you can't see the reason why a pilot with an ATPL can't go out and directly become a 747 Captain for QANTAS, you'd be an idiot, how is this different.

For a 200 hour pilot to be given a job, there needs to be a Chief Pilot employed, in many many GA companies the CP does not fly enough to cover his/her wage via direct income, then on top of that engineering staff, office staff and spare parts. All of these people are generally not directly earning the money, ie moving people from point a to b.

Through our own over abundant willingness to stab each other in the back for a job and coupled with more pilots than jobs, it leaves us as the easiest to replace, therefore paid the least, until you prove yourself to be irreplacable.

No operator could possibly want to operate illegally or unsafely.

[getmeoutovga]

What the hell does having an atpl and flying a 74 have to do with getting a decent days pay???

Again-a decent days work deserves a decent days pay, I dont care wether its in the local 7/11 or the flight deck of a bloody concorde.
I'm gettin to old for these conversations- I don't really care anymore, go work for nothing, people will anyway, so there is no point talking about it. End of story

[Continental-520]

I think I would have a moan about how the girls don't swoon and fall at your feet when told your a pilot. they were meant to become awed and fighting each other to get to me, once I got me uniform on.....................It aint happening as advertised.

Really? Must've been missing your Airside Pass, Wiz...


520.

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Get, what the hell does having a CPL have to do with being an employed pilot ?, shouldn't having a CPL be all thats required to be an employed pilot, ie there's alot more to the equation than you would obviously be willing to consider.

[getmeoutovga]

O.K mate I'll make this easy for you as you don't seem to have the capacity to participate in a logical and coherant conversation. Tell me where I've said just because you have a C.P.L or A.T.P.L you deserve a job?? Far from the truth. I think we are running off on different tangents here buddy. What I am saying is if a pilot is required to work for X amount of time then he/she deserves to be renumerated accordingly. Even a apprentice in the 'real world' may earn $8 an hour in his first year. Now this apprentice is earning money- (as little as it may be) without any training what so ever. Then take a pilot who has trained and worked his arse of to get a CPL and by all acounts should be of a reasonable standard. What happens to him, he goes out gets a 'job' and could quite easily spend days on end of full time employment without recieving a single dollar!!

Again I'm not saying he/she deserves a job and I understand that they need to build experience and skills but we shouldn't expect people to work for free. There is no other industry in the country where such a practice would be allowed to occur.

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

If this arguement is about people not working for free, i agree. Pilots that work as charter pilots for free are scum and will get no help from me.

" a decent days work deserves a decent days pay", yes i agree, but, what to me was inferred is that pilots in GA should get paid alot more, that may infact be a fair request, when compared to other industies, but the aviation industry generally can not support higher wages.

I presently work in a GA company and when you compare money in the door verses money out the door, theres not much in it.

[the wizard of auz]

Bwaaaahahahaha, I think you must be right 520.
I forgot I needed that to be of the same standard as the bloke with six bars and the ID idea. :}

[High Altitude]

Biggest gripe = When my Tooheys New is not icy cold and waiting for a drink at the Nuts...

[Dawn Raid]

Mr 520

I'm still waiting for my air-side pass. Catching up with towering Q and his crew tomorrow for a bus trip.

Now...the air-side pass photo's of you and A.S. were the funniest i've seen in ages.

PS. the girls say hi.

:ooh:

Hi Wiz

Went to YWBR in DEQ the other day. Listened out but couldn't hear you. I'll call you re your request.

I'm doing the comp on sunday. I'm sure the boy's will succeed in scaring the C*#P out of me.

Dawny

[DOA]

You want a winge, bloody hell where do I start.

Decent companies with decent aircraft still don't necessaryily pay award plus all the entitlements.

Now Award, theres a joke!!!!

When a secretery's average income is 37 to 39,000. Don't get me wrong Im sure they earn it but come on.

When are they going to up date the award to include Fatigue Management Systems?

Im getting shafted.:mad:

[bush mechanics]

Ladys & Gents
I do work for a company that pays the award and entitlements but its still not alot.Maybe its the people who set up the award that people should be directing their energy too.
But hey no one made you become a pilot,Unless like some thought it would make it easy to pick up girlys!!!If you realy enjoy actually flying like I do then wheres the problem.
Happy Days.

[the wizard of auz]

HHHMMMMMMMMMM, wheres the problem............. Oh, I know, paying the mortgage AND eating. but as long as you love flying I guess thats alright, coz we all know that you don't feel like eating when your in love.

[bush mechanics]

Wizard,
Mate you have a big decision to make.And its something the industry wont help you with.
I too have a mortage/car loan/pilot loan.But I made a decision and Im surviveing.I can only blame my self if it all turns to crap.If this means working a second job well soo be it.You have to have a plan and stick to it.And by the way many stop eating when they fall out of love!!

[the wizard of auz]

Nah Mate, I already made the decision. I now reside at the top of the food chain. I own the company I fly for. :ok:
But I do remember being at the bottom of the chain once, and I witness the poor bugga's struggling out there now. my kids all wanted to be pilots, I think I have talked them into flying for fun and taking up a real job, like becoming a piano player in a whorehouse, when they are finished school.

[Pseudonymn]

Hey Wiz, if the bills ever get too much, you can always flog Daisy to NAP :} :) :ok:

[the wizard of auz]

Dunno about that now mate. even though he is as skinny as a roo dog now, he still requires a crowbar to get him out of the tabogan......... something about wanting to sleep with a GNX450 and looking good in the morning climbing out of a new paint job. :} ;)

[OpsNormal]

Just what ever you do never mention the word 'golfball' within his earshot..... :ooh:

[bush mechanics]

Wizard,
You own the company and you are flat out eating and paying the mortage!!!!!!!!!!Times must be tuff out west.

[the wizard of auz]

Not me you goose!. I am sure the original comment was made in the light of it being aimed at the average bloke. The avarage bloke is either looking for work or is working and hardly being paid......... strewth. Hang on....... I'll get a crayon and draw a picture for ya.

Things are a bit tough out west at the moment, but I'm still getting waay better than the average GA pilot, so dont worry about me mate, I'm fine thanx. :ok:

[bush mechanics]

Wizard,
Maybe you should have been a bit clearer in the first place.Maybe practice useing your crayons!!!!
Time must be tuff out west!!,we have pens where i come from.
Soo maybe you were talking about your pilots,cant aford to eat or pay the rent?Geez wonder why.
Ya Pelican!!!

[Ref + 10]

Wiz,

You gotta stop wearing your uniform to the pub mate!

Ref.

PS. I hope FNY's exhausts are pointing away from your 182

[the wizard of auz]

REF, mate I wear my uniform every where, coz king gee khaki's are just so practical and make my ass look good.
If you have been up here lately you will have noticed my 310 and 172 are safely locked into the hanger now days.
I did notice that a few of the guys shut down the left engine when turning onto the parking area. thats airmanship. thanx to those blokes :ok:

Bush machanic, mate, you just don,t know life if you havn't experianced crayola's........... ya turkey. ;)
(strewth, I hope we don't run outta birds before all this is over)

[bush mechanics]

Wizard ,mate we have all been issued magic doodle boards!!!You know the ones?soo we are one step ahead again.you Doe Doe!!

[the wizard of auz]

HMMM, lots of knob turning huh? to hard for me I am afraid.
You Bustard. ;)

[the wizard of auz]

C'mon, I havn't used Galah yet. :}

[bush mechanics]

Sorry mate,Feel free!!!Go your hardest!!!Ya Swallow!!Or is that what you do!!!

[VB_Capt]

Love the sense of humour in GA. How come I don't have a sense of humour like that; I'm in GA here. The only thing that changes is the colour of the tail.

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Wiz, i feel it would take alot more than a pair of King Gees to make your ass look good, no offence.

[Poto]

I have held some pretty high standards in GA, some visits back to the real world in W.A. have kept my madness(sanity) at bay but this remote area bar lowering of my colleagues is beyond a joke!
Just because they are a nurse or a teacher doesn't mean that there tare weight of 140kg is acceptable. Tell me, ex-GA now jet jockey dudes, did you have to drop the bar this low or was there a better diet plan in vogue in your days :mad:

[the wizard of auz]

thats a bit harsh LHRT.
Hey Bushy, dem todd girl bin told me you a reeeel good bloke ay, you bin gib em a water bag and they bin like you big mobs. they like them little italian blokes over there. so I musta been wrong about you. ;)

[robair]

I can't get liad:{ :{ :{

[Max Range]

According to Wiz:
"REF, mate I wear my uniform every where, coz king gee khaki's are just so practical and make my ass look good."

Could someone please attach a pic of Wiz's aformentioned ass in the khaki's so I can have a squiz? Obviously further research and an independent opinion required here!
;)

[the wizard of auz]

Max Range, There is going to be a tirade of negative posts any second now. Don't believe any of them, none of them know me and the ones that do, well, their all just green with envy. ;) :}

[bush mechanics]

Hey Wiz,U bin lsten to dat bloke,OPS NORMAL.He bin tell you lies!!
I bin no give dem laddys dat water,I bin get dem that coolahbar cask,u no dat one,he bin called Lady in a boat.
And by the way ,Once youve had chocalate youl never go back to vanilla!!!

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Robair, perhaps you should tried getting "laid", it's nearly as good.

[Ref + 10]

Nearly, but something is round the wrong way..... that could be good too I guess??!! :E

[robair]

aunt wee a perfectionist!:}
If I could spell I wouldn't be a commercail pilot, I wood B an Inglish teacher := :8

[Ref + 10]

Isn't it engrish? :p

[Sheep Guts]

HOW UNSTABLE THIS GOD FORSAKEN BUSINESS IS. WHY?

[dwnunderblunderer]

I would tell this journo how i have been living on 3 jobs for the last year and a half and pulled nearly 20k, while full time instructing. But when I send someone away solo or watch the expression on thier face when they pull off a great x/w landing it almost seems worth while. I go home to see my new wife happy at the accomplishments of my students, and get to talk to her briefly as i scoff down dinner, and rush off to the other job for the night. Friday avo's are great, we have a few beers and I think about when I get my first airline gig, or how I can get more multi time. I talk to my CFI about how GA is tough, but he seems to laugh at me as though I dont know how lucky I got it. I'd say I'm gonna keep going hard and try not to winge too much about being paid under half minimum nominal wage. I'll keep going and one day when I move on to that airline job, i'll briefly look back at GA as i flick the bird and never come back to it.

Here's to big boobs and cold beer. ;)

[Lefthanded_Rock_Thrower]

Mmmmmm, Big boobs and cold beer, much better than wiz's ass in king gee's.

[Ref + 10]

Sorry Wiz but I'm with the Rock Thrower 100% on that one!!

[the wizard of auz]

I would rather have my ass in a chopper, chasing cows than modeling my shapely ass to you guys anyway. ;)

[Woomera]

Wiz's ass in King Gees.

dwnunderblunderer's big boobs and cold beer.

Robair trying to get liad - or laid.

Poto suggesting the "...real world (is) in W.A."

Hmmm. Perhaps I should be running my jaundiced Moderating eye over this thread a little more often........ :ugh:

Woomera

[Ref + 10]

Shapely Wiz? What shape and in what size?

On second thoughts I'd rather live in ingorant bliss on that one... :eek:

[Highbypasss]

There are many things in GA that I can't stand. They have all been mentioned so far. There are many MORE things in GA that I love........I think.......

......but, by far the biggest thing about GA that I hate is the amount of pilots that still use the phrase "Point Cook TRAFFIC ". That phrase went out with the ARK!!! GET WITH IT!!! The phrase is now, "All STATIONS"!!!
It has been since the mid 80's.

AIP GEN 3.3 - 20 PARA 4.6.2

[shaablamm]

At the moment my biggest gripe is to those tossers who put there REAR fog lights on in fair vis or a little bit of rain just because they want to use them and then forget there on, when they don't need them on in the first place. Not to mention the knobbers who push the button and of course 'nothing observed' infront of them so they just leave it on and drive around for days, months, years thinking that there rear lights are fantastically bright on the off chance that they ever use their rear view mirror.

Gripe over.

They drive like they fly comes to mind..........

[robair]

Why do aviators take themslfs so seriously? and why don't they have a sense of humour any more?:mad:

[Highbypasss]

HERE HERE ROB!!! Well said indeed.

.........................................H.:cool: