Flybe expansion plan for BHD

[mysecretsmile]

I was wondering if anyone could shed any light on whether Flybe
have big expansion plans for new routes out off BHD.

I noticed in that they are not actively recruiting for Belfast based cabin crew in Friday's Belfast Telegraph.

I heard a rumour a while back of plans to introduce some International routes to sun & ski destinations in 2004 from BHD and extra flights on Gatwick.

Belfast Telegraph - Job ad (http://jobfinder.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/servlet/jobfinder/ExtractAdvert?adID=130399)

Can anyone confirm I they know anything about Flybe's expansion plans

[MEFLYBE]

I think i can safely say that Flybe. have no expansion plans for BHD certainly this coming winter or next summer.

It is well known that BHD want to attract international flights, but until the appropriate security and customs facilities are installed, it would be impossible for any carrier to start international flights.

It is also, however internally rumoured that as soon as BHD gets international facilities that Flybe. will open up routes from there. However, the 146 is not capable of using BHD's short runway with a full load of pax bound for say AGP or MJV, so until the 146's are replaced, it is looking VERY unlikely.

There are also runours flying around that easyjet want to move into BHD and use the old airport terminal, and bmibaby also want a piece of the city action.

regards

Mike

[ALLMCC]

A few interesting points here - have Flybe not in the past operated ski flights to Chambery? - what where the security & customs arrangements for these flights? - also presumably the current Jet Magic service to Cork would need customs facilities.

The rumours about Bmibaby have been rife for some time and I have been told these are not without foundation - the question really is not if but when - however, the one about Easyjet is a new one on me and I would have thought unlikely given the "relationship" they have with BFS - would they move their entire operation to BHD or are they considering operating from both - would this be economically and operationally viable?

Either way it would put the old terminal facility to good use with the ramp space already available.

[mysecretsmile]

MEFLYBE - thats a interesting rumour about Easyjet even thinking about BHD and using the old terminal, certainly it would be logistically feasible with the existing stands available although I'd be surprised ! I too have been led to believe that BMI Baby will be travelling down the road from BFS sooner rather than later.

As far as the International flights side of things I understand that
BHD already has adequate security and customs , they already handle internatinal flights to Chambery for the ski season as well as Salzberg, Venice and a few other destinations. The Chambery service runs on Saturdays during the ski season and on a full load have been successfully run with 146's. However I understand that Flybe be may have 737's on the way with delivery dates in early spring 04.

[Tower Ranger]

I don`t think the old terminal will ever see any pax through the doors again as a substantial part of it is due for demolition and this area has been earmarked for a different type of development.

Customs/Immigration facilities are regularly used as already pointed out Cork, Dublin(rip), Jersey, Chambrey, Venice etc.

Lets be honest, never mind expansion, if Flybe can hold on to what they`ve got at BHD over the winter with the possibility of Jet2 and Ryanair making an appearance in NI that will be good going!!

[ALLMCC]

All of these hopes/forecasts are academic are they not until such times as the ridiculously absurd passenger number cap is lifted at BHD - until this is done, any growth will be seriously stifled.

To put this restriction into perspective, can you imagine Sainsburys agreeing to restrict the no of customers they can admit in a given period and closing their doors at 9.30pm to keep a neighbouring Tescos happy - a restriction like BHD has could only happen in N Ireland!

[JobsaGoodun]

Tower Ranger,

Flybe will not simply roll over and let the likes of JET2 take passengers from them. Just as they retained services on the BRS route when GO started and on NCL/LGW when Easy started.

It is Flybe's policy not to be undercut on price by anyone operating on the same route. Whether this will apply when comparing BHD to BFS I don't know. However the Q400 on the LBA route will easily enable them to offer fares comparable to any that JET2 may offer.

It will be an interesting time. This will be the first route on which JET2 have attempted to challenge another carrier. I am pretty sure it will not be as easy as they and you may imagine.

Regards....

[ALLMCC]

Well said, my man! I can't help feeling that Jet2 are only starting this route to ensure that aircraft utilisation is maximised during the winter months and that come next spring/summer when the lucrative holiday market takes off again the service from LBA-BFS will disappear as quickly as it started!

[Frankfurt_Cowboy]

They're competing with KLM on Amsterdam aren't they?

[owc]

Jet2 start LBA - BFS

At last competition, Flybe must have made a killing on this route over the years not so long ago a day return from Belfast cost almost £300. Funny how Flybe can now offer the same flight for £50 or less.

[MaxProp]

Yes, Flybe have adopted to the market quicker than most. The business customer yield has vanished courtesy of Easy and Ryan.
Anyone will find it difficult to compete with the economics of a Q400 on a less than 1 hr sector. Obviously J2 may just be trying a spoiling manouevre, but just ask KLMUK UK (who) what happened on GCI-SOU.

[JobsaGoodun]

owc

You raise a valid point and for quite sometime back in the JEA/BE days LBABHD rated as one of the highest yield routes operated by the company. However with the introduction of the Q400 passenger numbers have risen and return fares are often available at around £60 and sometimes as little as £40.

It is worth noting that these fares have been available for quite sometime and are not suddenly being offered because of JET2's decison to compete. I think this illustrates Flybe's intention to offer a great value service to the regions of the UK

[Tower Ranger]

Jobsagoodun
The Leeds route may be different but I don`t remember them putting up much of a fight on thr routes to Stansted or Luton.

As for the pax capping my understanding is that the restriction is to provide no more than 2 million seats per year. Surely that means 2 mil inbound and therefore 2 mil outbound so 4 million pax total so not really a problem.
The biggest restriction is the night curfew which needs sorted.

[eastern wiseguy]

My understanding was that the pax capping was self imposed by the old Harbour airport .As to 2million seats I read that as 1 million in and 1 million out.Night curfew is fine thank you.
I liked the old M...... B..... assertion that it was a "dawn to dusk" operation.......lets have you closed at 1600 in December then!:E Tower Ranger if you want me to fill in the blanks talk on the other means!

[with alacrity]

This makes interesting reading,especially page 123. Slightly dated and not sure whether it is still applicable.

www.competition-commission.org.uk/rep_pub/reports/1996/fulltext/376a3.2.pdf

Needs Acrobat Reader.

[babydoc]

Ok folks, this is it - explanation time

13 (c) is the passenger cap

Operators (airlines) using the airport are not allowed to offer for sale more than 1.5 million seats from the facility in any 12 month period.

As most tickets are bought as returns that equates to around 3 million passengers (inbound and outbound) a year. Assuming a load factor of around 75 per cent that means a limit of around 2.25 million people actually passing through the terminal in any 12-month period (departing and arriving).

BHD expects to carry in and around 2 million this calendar year.

That puts it quite close but not over the cap.

The cap is obviously linked to the planning agreement that Shorts had to enter into with the DoE in order to get permission to extend the terminal in 1993.

Because the planning agreement also lays down rules on operating hours, number of movements, and guidance on flying over the lough where possible we must assume it was put in place so as prevent development to a scale that might be detrimental to people living near the airport or underneath the flightpaths.

[ALLMCC]

Baby Doc

Thanks for your detailed explanation - if as you say the passenger cap was agreed in 1993, that was 10 years ago - things have moved on considerably since then - I'm sure most would agree it is time it was reviewed.

[Tower Ranger]

Hi WA , interesting link maybe BCA should e-mail the link to all the twitchers who open their curtains at 21.45 each night in the hope of seeing something to complain about.

The figures given for1994 show 40,000 movements which is almost exactly the same as (if not more than) the present traffic level so where are all these extra flights they moan about.

The restriction also only required a "bias" of flights over Belfast Lough i.e 51% but we are usually in and around 70% so we`re not even close to breaking that one and as Babydoc pointed out we are not yet exceeding our pax cap. Ok so we have the odd flight delay , who doesn`t, but the local residents groups are making a lot more noise about less movements!!

Eastern, Yeah talk soon. I`m never at my best between sunrise and sunrise!