Executive first officers !!!

[Goldfish Jack]

Just heard from a reliable source that the national airline has a new rank = EXECUTIVE FIRST OFFICER ???

Apparantly they will wear 4 bars, get a captain's salary and look after all the new captains!

I hear they will help them fly, make sure they behave themselves and when they stroke the cat, the executive FO takes the rap!!

Now not only can captains walk on water, but first officers as well!

Any guess's what the cabin attendants are going to be called?

[Sayagain...?]

New bars are available, they might extend beyond your shoulder blade measurements, just adapt your situational awareness so not to knock the chip off some other blokes shoulder, but it can fit 6, (six) beautifull golden bars!

[orgasmotron]

I can easily believe if SAA would introduce something like "executive" first officers. Shouldn't they rather be called "au pairs" ?

Just saw a Kenyan the other day that did his CPL at the same time I did mine. He is now employed by SAA as a pilot. He flew in Kenya for a while and has only been in SA for a year. Seems like the milky bar complexion on the skin has nou overuled the "Citizenship" field on our passports.

I realy feel sorry for young pilots starting their careers where your own national carrier is of limits because of your skin colour. In another thread, advice were given to apply for cadet scheme but to make sure you do not have more than 60 hours with your PPL when you apply. What are the chances now if some guys with 2000 hours, medium jet time and an ATP does not get in ? Same guy was not good enough for SAA but now 777 F/O at Cathay.

We all know by now quality is not the criteria any more.

[contraxdog]

Well guys what I find the best is that I know, and you know, and he knows, that we all know why he got that job.
(Please note that I said JOB not command)
Therefore my respect for him and his nanny will be adusted as such.
Racisism is wrong doesnt matter how you colour it!

[cjam]

Howdy folks,

Interesting thread, having never been to Africa I know nothing of racism over there.
How is this 'executive FO' thing racist? Is it black guys getting jobs that they arn't qualified for or white guys? Does the 'exec FO' have more or less experience than the captains or normal FO's? Sounds bizzare. Cheers, cjam

[saywhat]

Dear cjam
All this rubbish is about a few idiots out there who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about, running allong with a pure rumour that they heard in a pub while slanting their own company. The information you hear here, is absolutely false:yuk: There is no truth in it what so ever, and I suggest that toss heads like the moron who started this thread check their info before posting. COME ON GUYS, THERE ARE MUCH BETTER WAYS OF SLANTING THE NATIONAL CARRIER THAN SPEAKING UTTER CR@P ABOUT THEM.

[George Tower]

Saywhat

PPRUNE stands for "Professional Pilots Rumour Network". In view of this fact I would have thought that it was perfectly acceptable to discuss what may be unsubstantiated rumours.

I have read many posts by Goldfish Jack and many have been helpful and informative, so I think your attack on him is pretty below the belt. Especially as I'm sure the post was made with his tongue somewhere in the vacinity of his cheek.

Unlike most airlines in the world SAA is a public company and therefore ultimately accountable to the people of SA. There will always be rumours as there was in the days before the internet. If you've got more info regarding the subject of this thread I for one would be interested to know what SAA are planning to do.

[linuxgal]

Goldfish, all you had to do was pick up the phone and have a chat...! I suspect this rumour came about from a suggestion for guys who are proposing to extend the retirement age over 60. A suggestion for IFR cruise captains on international flights, as used in many overseas airlines, was mooted. The F/O is presently qualified to fill this role. Hope this clears things up.

[Skaz]

if this situation wasnt so pathetic, it would actually be funny:{

[Jacobest]

Having read this link I had to laugh a little by myself.
I heard about this when I applied to SAA recently when they advertised in the newspaper. Apparently (and this came from a SOMETHINK-Link pilot) the black pilots in SAA became fed up with the fact that THEY had to sit as first officers in SAA for such a long time (just like white pilots who join the airline) so they started their own union, took SAA to the labor court and won the case.
That is why SAA is now employing senior first officers, so that they can sit them next to the new Black Captains.

In all fairness, a rumor with a lot of tails added to it, but how much is rumor and how much is fact.

I just feel that if experience is no longer a criteria for SAA, then the public should be made aware of the potential risk they face every time they get into a SAA plane. And I hope there is a reporter out there that picks up on this and actually prints this story. Maybe then a major accident might be avoided in the future.
:ok:

[whiskeyfour]

:suspect: That does sound a lot like rumour - I think that this would have come to light already if it were true...

Has anybody actually been hired by SAA in the last year?

[linuxgal]

Sorry dudes, this is all rumour with absolutely no reality involved. There is still only one pilot's union at SAA, to which 99.9% of the pilots belong. No other union has been formed. It's been talked about but has not happened.
Between September and January, SAA will be taking a guesstimated total of 40 pilots - 12 have already joined in the last two months, another 8 are definite for November. Everyone who joins gets allocated their seniority according to the present rules - sorted within their group at the bottom of the tree.
Yes, I know this is the rumour network and you are going to find this stuff on here, but many rumours are created by unhappy folks who feel better when they can make everyone else as miserable as they are. Rather try and contact someone in the company to find out an accurate version and stay a bit happier!

[GormanInkarnati]

"Between September and January, SAA will be taking a guesstimated total of 40 pilots - 12 have already joined in the last two months, another 8 are definite for November."

Now that leaves 20 more pilot positions up to January. Can anybody tell me what the chances are that W.A.M.s (White, Afrikaans males i.e currently disadvantaged people) will be employed?

Just wondering...:E

[Pontius' Pilot]

So Goldfish Jack according to what linuxgal says your "reliable source" is not so reliable.

[Goldfish Jack]

Oh dear Pontius' Pilot, I must have got it wrong! But then it seems like my source did as well and he is at the airline and is hoping to become one of these first officers, because he does not think he will get to command before retirement age!!

Oh well let me try and find another rumour to start.

[kobus]

So what you people are saying is that ALL black people are idiots and shouldn't be pilots. They do not have the capability to fly an aircraft safely? Hmmm...I guess the newspapers aren't reporting on any SAA crashes involving black pilots then, must be BEE again huh? Blame it all on BEE.

Stop wasting your time on PPRUNE and go and do something, find a job, do something worthwhile with your time.

There are many black pilots (SAA) who PAID for their OWN training and by far deserve what they have today. Sure, they had an advantage because of BEE, but SAA still does employ pilots of all colors. If you're not competent enough to be employed by SAA, don't blame it on BEE, instead, take a gook in the mirror. And if you don't like SAA then hop along and find a job elsewhere, that's what I did.

:ok:

[MysticFlyer]

Hey Kobus,

Heard you're doing the mail run now from Piet Retief (think that's the spelling boet, any "Kobus" from that dorp will get that right) to Pongola with your draadkar 737.

You know what, with worldwide recruiting going at the rate it is and with management under pressure from only inside the industry, and with an Ops Manager less and a whole lot of other unhappy pilots, maybe you made a wise choice to leave!

Hey Baba? Eisch....was the pap greener on the other side? All this is un-BEE-lieveable, hey what do you say? You're joining us at Bloedrivier next year? - I'm Kamp Kommandant:E



C-ri-us trawling going on here, 10 posts from 16 July this year, serious googler too. Old issue from 2003, but the more things change, the more it seems to stay the same.:ugh:

Please don\'t feed THIS nasty thing any further!

MF ;)

[Pontius' Pilot]

Is it possible that people can hack ones username on PPRUNE?

Why I ask is because the comment posted by "Pontius' Pilot" to Goldfish was not from my keyboard!

Regards from the real Pontius' Pilot

[kobus]

MysticFlyer,

Ever had an intelligible debate? I have my doubts..:confused:

[davidjh]

Dear "saywhat",

You are mentally alienated from reality if you believe what you posted! I guess you are "in" so you simply cannot be aware of the interviewing/selection criteria. Maybe you should ask the captains who are on the selection panel. After passing everything one told me that he was sorry!.. but HR to Chairman of board (incl. CEO) want candidates of PDI background. I suggest you check YOUR facts before replying and stating that others are "morons".:*

[european champion]

I believe this unfair treatment against whites could be happening in saa but at least they do it in their own country.In other countries like Botswana or Namibia there is similar treatment from whites(australians,southafricans,kiwis) against blacks and its not even their own country so it makes it worse.lets be honest,in every country there is no fair treatment in any industry,in italy for example its an advantage if u r italian,in france u need to be french,in england u have to be english...thats life.

[4HolerPoler]

Cut the black & white race card issue or I'll have to close this thread.

Pontius, there is no way for another user to hack your name; the risk lies in your use of a public domain terminal that you use to access this site & then don't log off from - the next user to log on to this website will then log-on with your user-name.

Don't forget to log-out when using public-domain access servers.

4HP

[Gunship]

Is it possible that people can hack ones username on PPRUNE?

Why I ask is because the comment posted by "Pontius' Pilot" to Goldfish was not from my keyboard!

Regards from the real Pontius' Pilot

Lo PP: Maybe you did not log out of the internet cafe mate and old Zandy Greef or Conti or one of those oke's made a post on you name without knowing that.

Then again ... someone might have your password :E

[MysticFlyer]

What 4HP suggests is just that. Selection of crew should be based on competence of the local stock. Currently SAA is compelled by government to have a figure more representative of population.

Unfortunately, the time frame in obtaining this target, has proved difficult to achieve. It has been hampered with people with these great aspirations, finding themselves in positions where the government can not subscribe to the world community how aviation should be managed, as SAFETY is nothing new, a century, quite unlike a new democracy -12years old and still very malnourished.

Countries, like in Africa and America, proved that it aviators of all colour and creed are possible, but still this government seems it can accelerate normal progression, hence the subsequent conflict. This thus dispells the racial card waved by the government and these aspirant aviators.

As in any profession, ability is key. Load this ability with knowledge and skills and voila. If someone is clearly lacking this ability, no money is EVER enough to develop mere dreams, for that is what they'll remain, dreams! It won't help to change this rule, for IT is older than 12 years!

Judging from the progress made outside the borders of SA by the president, towards a Pan African Parliament, maybe this body governing Africa would be able to subscribe WITHIN Africa how aviation should be managed.

Methinks they'll have problems with that too, looking at the state Africa is in already. A new hope.....Cure#96669 in terms of a long term REDplan for fixing all of Africa's past problems, more dreams, any good coming from that, hence the changes even in the old USSR away from it!?

A global African solution, while they manage the national carrier this way - methinks a Pan African Airline is the longterm strategy, but getting crew to be advanced according to traditional methods is the BIG problem, so....new plan!?

Politics takes time too.

Methinks invest in the shipping industry, they won't be FLYING anywhere outside of AFRICA!

[saywhat]

In the past 6 years, about 300 pilots must have been employed. That is based on the seniority list that I see in front of me. The vast majority of the names are typical names of white South Africans. Of them, I would guess that there are more males than females.
It is not new that it is difficult to gain entry into SAA. In fact about 15 - 20 years ago SAA did not have any intakes for 6 years. All that seems to have changed is that the reasons given for the fustrated pilots out there, who are batteling to get in. Keep applying, and don't expect too much from them in response, as the human resources department is not great. The one thing that you can bet on is that SAA needs and employs pilots, and that it is an ongoing process.