Easyjet & N Ireland

[ALLMCC]

I see from local press www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business that the Easyjet spin doctors are active again - now claiming they are the single biggest contributor to the NI economy and tourism over the past 5 years! - this is a crass insult to local agencies such as the NI Tourist Board who have made massive efforts to boost inward tourism.

How can an airline which pays minimal charges at BFS claim to contribute significantly to the regions economy - the vastly reduced revenues at BFS bear testament to this - they also state that over 7m passengers have been carried to and from Belfast since Sep 1998 - this may be true but it is very likely that the majority of these were NI passengers taking advantage of cheaper fares after being ripped off by the mainliners for years.

Easy also claim they are the most successful airline operating in N Ireland - by what yardstick do they measure "success" - do they mean making money? - for an airline that not so long ago was showing losses of £48m this seems unlikely. It would be better if Easyjet justified these claims rather than insulting peoples intelligence by issuing rash statements like these!

[no sig]

Lighten up ALLMCC, have you never heard of marketing? If easyJet don't blow their own trumpet no one else well. You admit they have brought low fare to NI, a very good thing. People have flown that would have never dreamed of it before, a good thing. If you doubt the validity of their claim why don't you ask them directly. PS, and the reason fares are low is that low cost airlines negotiate low airport costs to keep them that way.

[Stall Inducer]

ALLMCC,
'by what yardstick do they measure "success" - do they mean making money? - for an airline that not so long ago was showing losses of £48m this seems unlikely'

I see in the FT that analysts are expecting pre tax profits of £50m for Easyjet this year.

[Scottie]

ALLMCC, before spouting off in future please get your facts right. The £48m loss was for the winter season, there were also one off costs involved in that sum.

Most airlines make a loss in the winter and a profit in the summer.

As for what has eJ done for NI, well they've opened a base which has created jobs, the jobs at Aviance rely to a certain extent on eJ presence, we bring loads of tourists from Holland and the rest of the UK and on the short EDI/GLA we are providing a much better service than the ferry!

When I started in aviation the EDI-BFS route was operated by a Shorts 360, ATP or Jetstream 41.

[ALLMCC]

Scottie

I assume you are an EJ pilot - if so your response is what I would have expected. All i am saying (in laymans terms) is that to go from a £48m loss to a £50m profit in less than 12 months will require nothing short of a miracle! If you add reducing load factors ( by EJ's own admission), increasing fuel costs, increasing competition from other locos (particularly a certain Irish based concern) then it seems even more like a pipedream.

Adding additional rotations to routes out of BFS will simply result in more aircraft with more empty seats and lower load factors. it simply doesn't add up! Air travel in/out of N Ireland doesn't revolve around EJ. There are other operators such as BA, BMI & Flybe who have served the province for years & long before Easyjet was even thought of. I suspect they will still be there after Easyjet is consigned to the annals of history.

Sorry but one mans view!

[brabazon]

It is very "easy" to go from posting a loss in the winter period to making a profit in the summer - yields are that much higher. Load factor is not the best measure here -it's the difference between the break even load factor and the acutal load factor.

That's not to say that their claims of being the biggest contributor to the NI economy are "accurate" (not having detailed NI economic data to hand).

[Uncle Monty]

ALLMCC

EZY results are due in mid-November. We shall see...

[ALLMCC]

Uncle Monty

I await with bated breath!! There may be a few surprises.

[glynn-kayes]

allmcc i see you also mention ba be and bd,mmmmm, funny they all operate from bhd.i think its all just a case of sour grapes on your behalf. lets face,ezy carry more pax per annum than all of the outfits put together at bhd and long may they do so...

[ALLMCC]

glynn-kayes

Funny how BA & BMI used to operate from BFS but now they don't - wonder why! If BFS is so attractive why don't Flybe use it except as a convenient diversionary?

Just wait until the WIP at BHD is finished & then we'll see some developments.

[no sig]

ALLMCC

Please. You're making comments here which are incorrect, note easyJet has posted increased loadfactors on the London Stock Exchange news service yesterday - up on the period last year, not falling. Scotties point is very valid regarding the 48m figure. This also is off the back of a downturn in business which has affect most carriers, including the Ryan's.

easyJet has been good for Northern Ireland and Northern Ireland has been good for easyJet, I'd rejoice in that fact and not focus on the PR machines comments. And we'll see who survives in the years to come.

[eastern wiseguy]

ALMCC.......What a lot of childish vitriol.A similar article in the Irish News shows that Bmi and British European have also experienced increases in passenger figures.All of this is good for the NI economy and anyone who can't see that is stuck too deep in his anorak.:hmm:

[glynn-kayes]

wonder how long ba will continue to operate at bhd,btw,its not ba at bhd its bacx,down to three routes and counting

[ALLMCC]

Eastern Wiseguy

True but neither BMI or Flybe make outrageous unsubstantiated claims to be "the single biggest contributor to the NI economy" - simply because they aren't - neither are Easyjet - if claims like these can't be backed up they shouldn't be made in the first instance! They only end up insulting peoples intelligence.

[brabazon]

ALLMCC

To try to test easyJet's claims, do you have access to data on the size of the NI economy and tourism statistics? It would be interesting to know what are the major contributors to the NI economy - in terms of largest employers/producers - and in terms of tourists what proportion arrive by air and what by sea. I understand that the ferries have been hit by the rise in low cost flights, however, how many people still go by sea?

[ALLMCC]

Brabazon

Have a look at www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/top_100_cos/ - not a definitive list I admit but a rough guide - note BFS at 91 but no sign of Easyjet!

[airmail]

ALLMC

Having looked at that list, I noticed that there is one over-riding factor that links all of the top 100 companies-they are all based in Ireland or are Irish subsidiaries of larger companies (i.e. it states Tesco (NI)).

As, to the best of my knowledge, EJ have never professed to be an Irish company or have an Irish subsidiary, how could they possibly appear in this list??

Rather than be on the offensive about some marketing claims, why don't you do as brabazon suggests and put a little bit of research in?

[mysecretsmile]

Ladies - you can argue over this point until the end of time.
I think the important issue to be drawn from it all is that
N.Ireland PLC is benefitting in many areas from the success of
airlines such as Easyjet, BMI, Flybe & BA and long may this continue.

All these airlines are directly employing many hundreds of people in NI and resulting in many more employed at the airports of BFS & BHD.

Fingers cross that this trend continues and when we have the likes of Ryanair joining the fray at one of our 2 Belfast airports we all benefit and the consumer will benefit from an even greater range of destinations at affordable prices.

[brabazon]

I don't think anyone is denying the major impact the the no-frills carriers have had on NI and other regions of the UK, it's just a matter of cutting through some of the marketing hype that these airlines put out.

Re: Ryanair, I thought they were considering another NI airport!

[Uncle Monty]

ej have gone from nothing to nine routes and 40 per cent plus of the Northern Ireland market in five years, bringing cheap fares to the market and forcing down fares across the board.

60 consecutive months of growth is, I suspect, a record that no other airline can match in the region.

As has been pointed out in another post, load factors are high and increasing. Mid to high 80s across the network, including NI. As a plc, the company is legally bound to be honest and transparent about these figures, so they must be believed.

In the last full financial year, the airline recorded a small profit during the first half (partly due to easter failling early) and a full year profit of around £70 million.

Given that the airline is now twice the size and yields have held up well during the summer, moreso than Ryanair (plc info), it is not unreasonable to expect that it will once again post a healthy profit this year.

ALLMCC - Even by PPRUNE standards your postings on this matter have been extremly biased, highly uninformed, and frighteningly naive.

You have a real bee in your bonnet about ezy. Get out more!

[ALLMCC]

Air Mail

To my certain knowledge Sainsburys, Marks & Spencer, Daewoo to name a few are neither Irish or have Irish subsidiaries and yet they appear in the list.

Uncle Monty

My comments are far from uninformed and are realistic - your utterings are obviously through rose tinted glasses - if you consider my remarks to be biased then yours in favour of Easyjet are vastly more so - maybe you're a disenchanted shareholder.

[airmail]

ALLMC

I suggest that you actually look at the Top 100 companies and the information that it gives. To answer your specific points:

Marks and Spencer-the article refers to M&S Ireland.

Daewoo-the article specifically says that it was founded in Antrim in 1989 and is the sole manufacturer of Daewoo videos in Europe.

Sainsburys-I know that I am getting on a bit but I cannot see them on the list.

Based on the above, I will let others draw their own conclusion.

Uncle Monty

Couldn't agree more

[ALLMCC]

The posts on this subject (with the exception of my own & My Secret Smile) are evidence that certain individuals simply cannot accept any criticism constructive or otherwise about their beloved Easyjet and can only react by resorting to abject abuse of anyone who dares to differ with them - not very democratic!

The fact is that air travel doesn't revolve around Easyjet - there are numerous other much more experienced players in the field and most of these, it has to be said, with considerably better standards of service. I would prefer to pay a bit more and be treated with a little respect not contempt.

My final word on this subject

[airmail]

The posts on this subject (with the exception of my own & My Secret Smile) are evidence that certain individuals simply cannot accept any criticism constructive or otherwise about their beloved Easyjet and can only react by resorting to abject abuse of anyone who dares to differ with them - not very democratic

I don't know what planet you are on but the only vitriol that I can see on this thread is from you. For the record, I have no connections with EJ in anyway shape or form apart from the fact that I have flown with them-although I have also flown with BA, Ryanair and BMI to name a few.

The fact is that air travel doesn't revolve around Easyjet - there are numerous other much more experienced players in the field

Extremely true, the concept of LCC's in Europe only really took off in the 90's and as EJ was one of the first to do it, they cannot be that old. Having said that EJ (and to be fair Ryanair and others) are performing far better than most of the more experienced players out there (BA, Swiss, AA, UA etc. etc)

most of these, it has to be said, with considerably better standards of service. I would prefer to pay a bit more and be treated with a little respect not contempt

Fair enough-you are entitled to a point of view. Based on EJ's growth over the last few years (especially in NI according to the figures you posted), there are a lot of people that disagree with you.

My final word on this subject

Don't you want to correct some of the glaring mistakes that you have made on this thread?

[ALLMCC]

Mistakes? the only mistake I made was to have the audacity to instigate this thread simply to state my opinion - the last thing I expected was to be greeted with a torrent of abuse from those who chose to differ.

Most posts on these forums can manage to be non malicious - not so in this case.

In future I will think very carefully before DARING to voice my opinions.

MY FINAL FINAL WORD!!!!!

[glynn-kayes]

allmcc,i have tried to make sound reasoning with you in the past but allas its always all in vain.you are so biast that you can never see the bigger picture of things.ezy have gone from 2 returns per day to 64 movements a day at bfs,soon to grow with more european destinations.you always harp on about low load factors at bfs ie cwl,stn lgw ltn.ema and i can assure you low loads they are not.i work in the industry and regulary see caa figures especially bfs/bhd routes to the mainland and also every day i can tell you exactly the loads on a certain loco operating from bhd to various destinations in the uk,btw their lgw and brs looks very unheathy at the mo, in terms of seats available after flight close out.In your previous posts you seem to have really enjoyed the fact that lots of people ,who employed for years at bfs were suddenly faced with redundancy or just simply sacked as they did not have enough service to warrant a pay off.there is so much i could say on this thread but i work for an airline so i have to use some decorum and keep a bit of savvy about me,i only hope you never face the same as a lot of staff have who worked at bfs for many years have,,,cause im sure that many people remember bertha and her collegues..Btw bertha was always great when on standby,she always onloaded you even when ba was overbooked

[ALLMCC]

Believe it or not I thought long and hard about whether it was worthwhile replying to the most recent post on this subject - I have decided to so here goes! I have already explained that I too have experienced redundancy although not in the airline industry. I am not exactly in the first flush of youth but still managed to secure another position in a matter of weeks. Redundancy is not something which only affects the aviation industry!

My main arguments on this subject have been that the posters have been trying to virtually deny the very existence of BHD and would, no doubt, laugh heartily if it were to close tomorrow - what about the people there who would lose their jobs? (around 500 directly & indirectly) - would they get any sympathy?.

How anyone can ignore a regional airport with an annual passenger throughput of almost 2m defies all logic and simply signifies the proverbial ostrich burying its head in the sand in the hope that competition will go away.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I don't see that BHD and BFS are in serious competition with each other. One offers mass travel to the population of NI and the other offers slightly premium travel to the population in and around Belfast.

Plenty of scope for both to prosper, serve their markets and complement each other with their different strengths.

The fact is since easyJet started seriously in NI passenger figures have increased at both Aldegrove AND the City.

So in fact nobody has lost out to anyone and the travelling punter is much to benefit. Three cheers for open market competition.

I do find it quite impressive some mornings being number 4 orange tail on the ramp with one on 4 mile final, another just rotating and still another company aircraft taxiing out. Sure does feel like a lot of business taking place. Thats gotta be good for everyone in aviation - surely?

Cheers

WWW

[ALLMCC]

Wee Weasley Welshman

Thanks for that - at long last a sensible post stating exactly what I've been trying to say until I am blue in the face! Unfortunately, there will still be those that have a blinkered view of true competition in the N Ireland market.

[ALLMCC]

Something of interest

www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/business

Are these the talks that have been ongoing for about 5 years? And why still no decision?. Could it possibly be because of the existence of that certain other low cost carrier at BFS?