Qantas Low Cost Domestic Airline

[Z Force]

If Qantas elect to go ahead with a low cost airline, and assuming it is 737's, where will they get experienced crews if they don't use mainline crew? Just a thought.

[thumpa]

My View

Is the new airline will be completely independent with the only commonality being probably 737's. They will have own check in, baggage handlers, crew etc. Who operates is anyones guess but there should be jobs out there.

[Big Jan]

Experienced crews ?
Ummm!
NJS, Impulse, Ex Ansett, AAE, Virgin
I think you might find a few experienced applicants amongst this lot.
I'm sure there are a few I haven't thought of !

[fornique8]

Don't forget Jetconnect

Boys are just waiting for the call to come home Geoff.

:ok:

[Gnadenburg]

For every Australian airline pilot at home there is one overseas!

Highly experienced etc but Virgin Blue/QF Budget not much of a drawcard.

[boocs]

Very true Mr. G!!!

Trying to escape (gasp, shock, horror) Oz at the moment for this and many other reasons.

For those that are willing..... There are far far greater opportunities presented overseas if you are prepared to make that first (and very big) step.

Then again, each to their own.

[cyclops camel]

Best career move I ever made!!

[Kaptin M]

Agreed. If it's lifestyle - or the opportunity to return to your former home, family, and friends - then this may be the opening you've been looking for.
But at a price (that YOU'LL pay!!).

Working overseas is likely to offer FAR higher remuneration and benefits (eg. free housing, utilities, medical, and schooling for the kids) than you'll get working in Australia.
Then again, to work o/s you will need (flight time/type) experience - which you WON'T need to get yourself a guernsey in Oz.
It used to be the other way around...but in those days, so were the salaries.

I'd challenge Gardenbug's, For every Australian airline pilot at home there is one overseas!..and say that it's probably 2 o/s to every 1 back home!

[mainwheel]

To put all in place is not a problem.
To be a discount carrier is not a problem.
How do you divvy the present staff, problem.
Where are the necessary major cost cuts going to be, problem.
Sounds good!

[orva]

Just watch 'Jetconnect' start to slowly infiltrate the domestic capital pairings. Hope QF73 pilots have 76 or scarebuss slots in their bid sheets....LOOKOUT!

[jakethemuss]

Airline will be crewed by current QF pilots. End of story.

[Z Force]

I don't think they would choose to use Jetconnect as it would be politically unacceptable. It would be seen as New Zealander's taking Australian jobs despite the fact that there are Australian pilots in Jetconnect and also the lower standards such as less flight attendants.

[Dehavillanddriver]

I guess the important issue will be the definition of QANTAS pilots.

If a pilot is employed by Jetconnect is he/she technically a QANTAS pilot because he/she is employed by the QANTAS group?

You have to be very clear about the english used to write these "agreements" because a half decent lawyer could easily mount the arguement that the jetconnect people are QF pilots and as such it is perfectly reasonable for QF to use these pilots on the "low cost" airline

[qfpaypacket]

Qantas mainline pilots then mate. End of story.

[thumpa]

Quite a few pilots will be recruited. But will mainline pilots want to take a big pay cut down to Virgin rates? I doubt it. But the opportunity is there if they wish. The airline will need to recruit and find experienced people and mainline will be a source. They wont be hard to find. But remember one thing. The airline will be totally independent. Mainline pilots and cabin crew will have to resign from there which will be for keeps.

[jakethemuss]

Thumpa,
Says who? It will be a career progression step for current Mainline crews on agreed terms. Remember, the people doing the work at the pointy end are not the problem when it comes to costs. And it is not the fault of Qantas pilots that Virgin pay their pilots less.

Don't devalue the profession.

Every day you earn every cent you have ever been paid.

[ITCZ]

Mainline pilots and cabin crew will have to resign from there which will be for keeps. [thumpa]

Just like they did for Australian?

[E.P.]

Don't throw stones however, do the fellas in Australian get paid the same as Mainline?

They should get more for having to wear those crap uniforms!!

On the subject, those guys at VB HAVE GOT TO DO something about they way they present themselves.

Lowcost and low paid does not mean you have to look like a bum!! :{ :ugh:

[The Enema Bandit]

They look like park rangers. All they need is Skippy hopping along behind them.

[ftrplt]

EP, majority of pilots get paid more, some (more senior Captains) get paid less.

Dont knock the uniform, very happy to get around with no tie and hat, you guys are the ones who look uncomfortable!

[Gnadenburg]

Enema Bandit

I imagine it saddens you that Plumber's Crack is not as fashionable amongst the Bubble Gum Blondes at VB as it is amongst the pilots!

The Blue Collar image must cost you guys wage wise?

Anyway, hope your well.

[Douglas Mcdonnell]

I think you guys have fallen for your own publicity. Since when does what you wear make you a better or worse pilot?.

No body gives a rats a$$ what you wear after all. Isnt the type of bloke/lady you are more important?

[loungelizard]

QF mainline drivers to operate. ???? Now lets see. The last 737 Capt I last spoke to bragged about his 235,000K he made last financial year due to him flying the and quote "the high nineties".
235,000 compared to 135,000 for the low cost carriers, maybe even less for "the high nineties". Yeah, sure we will see the "mainline" boys out there. Out of a job.!!!!! Wake up boys and smell the aroma of a new breed of coffee in town.

[EPIRB]

Loungelizard, sounds like a bit of jealousy to me. So he flew over ninety hours per month. So what? He obviously worked his backside off, made personal sacrifices (away from family etc) to do it and received the appropriate renumeration. As has been discussed elsewhere, pilot wages play a very small part of the whole equation. It's things like maintenance organisations, sim centres etc where the high costs are.

[Keg]

Funny LL, I remember everyone saying the same thing about Australian Airlines before it got going too! The guys and gals in Cairns reckons the coffee smells pretty good.

[loungelizard]

EPIRB,

Yes, I am very jealous. MMMM well then am I ????. Flying modern wide body world wide and earning much more than that TAX FREEEEE and I dont "work my backside off".
MMMM. I can tell you Keg that the coffee smells rather splendid from where I am as well. Actually, bloody good in fact.

Deny, Deny all you want, as we all know the Aviation industry in Oz is being turned on its head and the domestic brothers should be starting to get the big picture by now of what has happened and what is still happening around the globe. Continue to throw the blanket over your head and dig deeper into the sand, but it aint going to help one bit. Unfortunately the Ansett guys did this for a long time. What was the song at that particular time. I do believe it went something like this- "The Australian Government will never allow this to happen" Ohhhh dear oh dear.

[PBR Streetgang]

SQ are coming, SQ are coming. Ohh, sorry wrong thread. Skimpy are coming, Skimpy are coming! Ohh, and around about the same time as DJ go for a float too. Anyone see a trend here.

The other Q that might be asked of the Q - every other full service carrier that has attempted to start up a budget subsidiary has failed. Has Dicko found the grail?

[thumpa]

jakethemuss. Food for thought.

Lets say the new low cost saves for example $50000 per year less per pilot as they will now be on Virgin type wages. After 3 years they may have say 40 a/c with 400 pilots. Thats a wopping saving of $20,000,000 per year.

[jakethemuss]

Lizard,
Nasty 89 streak of poop on your shoulder there nob.
Be glad you live in that ****hole and bank those tax free dollars, but if your life is sooooo good what the **** are you doing posting on pprune you tosser?
Another undereducated pretender.

Thumpa,
Are you a pilot or a prostitute flogging your wares for the takers?
If you want to create a false market by offering your services for less then you are your own worst enemy. Initially the airline has 4 aeroplanes 20 crews and saves $400000 per annum. Is that worth upsetting the mainline pilot body?
Are you a pilot? Do you have any respect for the profession? Or are you another Jet aspirant prepared to undercut the market to get to job and in future years complain about the conditions that you helped to create?
I've seen 'em all son, where do you fit in? Open your eyes!!!!!!!

[loungelizard]

Jakethemuss

Hahahaha, what a classic ol'cock and i mean ol'cock since "you have seen em all". Ahh wrong yet again about the 89 bit, no poo poo's on my shoulder either and I have not had a toss for some time now.!!!! The bit about if life was so goooood, what am I doing on PPRUNE, does that mean that all on PPRUNE have a "bad life". With comments like that and getting up Thumpa as well, I must say you no doubt commit on a regular basis an "EDUCATED" lewd act on yourself. You sound like yet another washout that did not make it to the big time and let your anger and pitiful attitude out on your fellow man.
Oh its so great to see on PPRUNE a little fuel being poured on the heap and then a match thrown on and watch the WWWOOOOFFF.

Your fellow brother in Aviation,

Lizard.

[thumpa]

Jakethemuss

I'm sorry i would never want to upset pilots in mainline. Never! However did it get you thinking? A very insulting post as well.

Have a nice day.

[Clive]

Thumpa,

Some food for thought......

From Flt. Ops Dept. figures: Just a 1 cent per litre price change in fuel costs changed the bottom line at the old Ansett by $AU 10,000,000.

If price changes in Aviation Fuel are even close to those at the roadside bowser then variations to pilots wages are indeed small potatoes.

Similarly a 1 cent movement in the AUD - USD exchange rate varied the bottom line by $AU 2,500,000 for jet fuel purchases.

Lets not reduce the "big picture" to just a thumbnail.

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

So here we see the main problem writ large.

QF wannabees spying an opportunity, and seeing no problem with under-cutting the going rate (which is still a large step-up from their current circumstances) and then defending their actions by citing "market forces" blah blah blah.

Keep it up boys... we will be all paying for the privilege of flying an aeroplane in Australia soon..

[qfpaypacket]

Lounge lizard,

The only loser out of this will once again be you. Hope you enjoy it overseas. I hope you stay there.

[Pete Conrad]

It's ok, thumpa's view of the aviation world is through rose coloured goggles, he straps on the worst aeroplane Boeing have ever inherited.

The arrogance will dissappear when the Vaseline runs out and he's forced to to take up the standard company reaming position.

[loungelizard]

qfpaypacket,

Well now, the nervous twitch of your future is beginning to show through. Touchy Touchy. Thanks for the kind thoughts and please continue to enjoy your QF indoctrination whilst you still can. Many of us here decided years ago to break out of that crap and go where the big boys play. And NO, lets not mention 89. One day hopefully someone will lift the garage door up from your eyes and take the blinkers off.
But, lets not get all personal about this. Some can see the inevitable and others are blind to it. !!!!! It's what makes our industry tick eh.

[qfpaypacket]

Lounge lizard,
I do not think you know as much about what makes our industry tick as you think. My "indoctrination" is well and truly complete.

[loungelizard]

qfpaypacket,

Your indoctrination is "well and truely complete". Congratulations on making it through to retirement. Well done. Let's not turn this into a slinging match.

Dad are we there yet.???

[thumpa]

Pete Conrad

It's ok, thumpa's view of the aviation world is through rose coloured goggles, he straps on the worst aeroplane Boeing have ever inherited.

The arrogance will dissappear when the Vaseline runs out and he's forced to to take up the standard company reaming position.


You seriously need to get some professional help. The harbouring of so much hatred can not be good for you.

Cheer up and look on the sunny side of life:ok:

[Pete Conrad]

Awww shucks thumpa, thats really sweet of you to try and offer advice, I get all the LMAO therapy I need from reading what you have posted over the last while.

[Thunderbox]

There seems to be a lot of glee coming from various quarters at the 'imminent demise' of salary and conditions of airline pilots in OZ.

Why this is so can only be answered by the individuals themselves, but one thing is certain.. if the current trend of bitterness and hatred continues it's not going to be a profession worth being in for long.

If you're overseas earning the big bucks, good for you.

If you're in a low cost carrier I hope you're content with you're lot, I'm sure most are.

I'd like to think that airline pilots can get over the setbacks of the last decade or so and finally realize that we're in it together. If there is an enemy it's not within, look somewhere else, it won't take long to work it out.

Get it together people, time is running out!

[WhiteRat Wannabe]

Here Here Thunderbox.

Does anyone actually know anything about this :mad: LCC or is this just another bitching thread?

[Three Bars]

For all the speculation contained on this thread, the only official info is that the company is examining the model and AIPA is participating in the discussions.

[The Enema Bandit]

Hey Loungelizard, haven't had a toss for a long time hey? My arab neighbour reckons donkeys and goats are the best things since sliced bread.

[loungelizard]

The Enema Bandit,

Thanks for the laugh, I'll give em a go and let you know. Sort of leaves a bad taste in my mouth though. !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lizard

[pullock]

I just love aviation, now we even have an acronym for something that doesn't even exist

LCC

:ok:

[The Enema Bandit]

No worries Loungelizard, I'm glad you saw it the way it was supposed to be seen! A little bit of humour goes a long way these days. There's too much negativity in this world of ours. Also, my neighbour reckons a camel dung cigarette will fix that taste problem too.

[loungelizard]

Hey Enema Bandit, this place is probably where the cigarette brand "CAMEL" originated. ????!!!

[The Enema Bandit]

Good point! I never thought of that. I always thought they made their money from oil. Looks like we've hit upon the truth!