Crew missing as Convair 580 crashes near Wellington

[Wirraway]

NZPA 03.10.2003 Breaking News
11.30pm - UPDATED

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/pics/r04convair.JPG

Plane crashes near Waikanae

03.10.2003
11.30pm - UPDATED
Police tonight confirmed a plane had crashed near Waikanae, north of Wellington.

Senior Sergeant Peter Thurston said police searching north of Paraparaumu found wreckage on land.

The search was launched after locals reported hearing a plane circling overhead before a loud bang which sounded like thunder. The smell of aviation fuel was also reported.

It was initially believed the plane crashed at sea near Peka Peka but Mr Thurston was unable to confirm this.

He said aircraft was a Convair freight plane, with two or three crew aboard.

It is understood the plane, which was en route from Christchurch to Palmerston North, disappeared from Ohakea's radar about 9.30pm

Mr Thurston said it was pitch black, the weather was atrocious, and because Wellington was cut off because of road and rail closures, Palmerston North police had been enlisted in the search.

Police, Coastguard, the Westpac Rescue helicopter and other emergency service staff were combing the Kapiti Coast.

Kapiti Mana police area controller, Inspector John Spence, said some debris had been found in the water, about half a mile out to sea off the Paraparaumu-based Kapiti Boating Club and other debris was washing up on beaches in the Waikanae area.

There was no word yet on survivors, he said in a statement.

Kapiti Coastguard said tonight it was investigating unconfirmed reports from locals of seeing debris on land and sea and hearing "loud bangs", a spokesman said.

A Coastguard vessel was searching the area off shore, he said.

Airways Corporation spokesman Ken Mitchell said he understood two people had been on board, but all information remained unconfirmed for now.

It is understood the plane belongs to Christchurch-based Airfreight New Zealand which operates five Convair freight planes.

Airfreight New Zealand manager Murray Johnson said tonight he was gathering information, and news of the crash was "very distressing".

The company is a subsidiary of Palmerston North-based Field Air Holdings.

Owner of the Sand Castle Motel in Pekapeka, Mabs Le Page, said she heard "an enormous bang" about 9.30pm.

"It was loud, but not like thunder... a cracking explosive noise," she said.

However, she said she saw no sign of flames when she looked outside the beachfront motel.

The noise sounded as if it was heading out to sea, Mrs Le Page said.

A fire engine, police and some volunteers were at the beach.

Visibility was poor with very low cloud, she said.

"It's pitch black outside."

The sea was "wild", but high wind and heavy rains had died down.

Planes often "hugged the beach" during bad weather on their way back to Wellington Airport, she said.

- NZPA

============================================

[Vmo248]

Bloody sad.

I was in NZGS when the Convair being ferried from Pago Pago made the unscheduled stop there due to geting "misplaced" and with a resulting - very - low fuel emergency.

Hope its not same one. :(

[BTDT]

From This Morning NZHerald

04.10.2003

Emergency services found wreckage last last night of a cargo plane which had crashed near Waikanae, north of Wellington.

Police confirmed they had found the wreckage on land north of Paraparaumu.

Senior Sergeant Peter Thurston said the aircraft was a Convair freight plane, with two or three crew aboard.

It is understood the plane, which was en route from Christchurch to Palmerston North, disappeared from the Ohakea radar about 9.30pm.

The Kapiti Mana police area controller, Inspector John Spence, said some debris had been found in the water, about half a mile out to sea, and other debris had washed up on beaches in the Waikanae area.

There was no word on survivors.

The plane is understood to belong to Christchurch-based Airfreight New Zealand, which operates five Convair freight planes.

Airfreight New Zealand manager Murray Johnson said he was gathering information, and news of the crash was "very distressing".

The company is a subsidiary of Palmerston North-based Fieldair Holdings.

Three people died when one of its Convairs crashed into the Manukau Harbour in 1989.

One report last night said that a plane was heard circling low before a bang and that it crashed into the sea off Pekapeka.

A rescue helicopter was dispatched from Wellington and the Coastguard called in.

Locals on the Kapiti Coast alerted emergency services after hearing a bang and smelling aviation fuel.

The owner of the Sand Castle Motel in Pekapeka, Mabs Le Page, said the bang was loud, like thunder.

However, she saw no sign of flames when she looked outside. The noise sounded as though it was heading out to sea.

The plane crash occurred during very bad weather, which caused chaos in the area and is predicted to bring a polar blast to the upper North Island today.

[Techo Taxi Driver]

**** that's terrible, wonder if it's weather related. There's been some pretty hairy rides into that area lately. Was there anyone else flying in the area at the time?
I've got to go this afternoon...:sad:

[lame]

Condolences to all involved. :(

Is this the same Aircraft that used to fly from Cairns to Honiara?

[spider&fly]

I heard that the two light twins who usually go into PP didn't even try due to weather.

Very sad for everyone:(

[troppo]

lame...
don't think so the rego on that one was KSA as in King Solomon Airline/Airways...i think Air Chathams still has it

[radar vectored]

Condolences to all involved.
Lame, KSA is still definitely in the hands of Air Chathams. Sounding like an inflight break-up. Similarities to a Convair that broke up over Denmark in '89 when the tail separated, except in this case there are reports of an explosion.

[lame]

Thank you.

Just found the latest official New Zealand Police Report on the tragedy, hope it is okay to post it here?

(QUOTE)

Search scaled back for Kapiti plane crash

National News Release, 11:30, 4 October 2003

Searchers are from midday scaling back their hunt for the two crew of a freight plane which is believed to have gone down in the sea off Kapiti Island last night.

Senior Sergeant Mike Coleman, Kapiti Police, says aerial, boat and shoreline searches have found no sign of Barry Cowley, 57, of Kaiapoi, Christchurch and his colleague Paul Miller, 50, from Auckland, who were crewing the Parcel Line Express service from Christchurch to Palmerston North last night.

Mr Coleman says Coastguard crews have now returned to shore after combing the coast from Paraparaumu to north of Peka Peka.

"We believe the Convair plane may have gone down off Kapiti Island but there’s no visible sign of it so we’ve called the crews back in," Mr Coleman says. "A helicopter will sweep the area again this afternoon with the air accident investigator, and we’ll look at putting the fixed wing aircraft up again tomorrow."

In the meantime police and search and rescue staff will continue checking the shoreline, particularly around the change of tides, for any fresh signs of the aircraft.

Mr Coleman says it’s possible members of the public may find wreckage or other crash debris washed up on the beaches.

"People who find plane wreckage should not touch it, but note the details and contact Kapiti Police or the Police Central Communications Centre in Wellington and give us the location," he says.

"If you find items of freight such as courier bags, parcels, mail or labels, then that’s a different matter. If they’re small, pick them up, note the location you found them and bring them to the Kapiti Police Station on the corner of Rimu and Kapiti Roads, Paraparaumu."

Copyright 2003 New Zealand Police

(ENDQUOTE)

:(

[splatgothebugs]

Another dark day in New Zealand aviation.

To all involved with the Air Freight operation, friends and or families, you have the best wishes and support of the entire aviation community. :(

[smandkjc]

Our daughter lives in Peka Peka and heard the aircraft pass overhead.
She said she was afaid that it was about to crash into the property. The engines sounded "ropey"and then there was just silence.
She immediately phoned the Police. As parts were found on Peka Peka Rd just north of her property the aircraft had obviously turned around and was heading back south.
She said it was heading out to sea.
Having lost our son in an aircraft disaster we are thankful that today we still have our daughter and our 2 grandsons but our condolences go out to the families of the two aboard.

[Mr Proachpoint]

It appears that yet again, one of the good guys has gone. Losing Barry Cowley reminds me a lot of when Tom Middleton was killed in Wanaka.
Like Tom, Barry had more experience than many of us put together and to top it all off was a damn good bloke.
He wasn't called Chuckles for nothing either. I never once saw him without a smile on his face.

Hopefully some facts come to light soon. TV footage of the wreckage and its trail seems to back up the inflight break-up theory.

Again thoughts go out to those affected.

MAPt.

[aerocom]

Indead another bad day in aviation. mr approachpoint memories of Tom are still there , one of the worlds best pilots and gentleman, i have never meet such a nicer person and consider myself lucky to have been a friend and have flowen with him. In regards to the 580 accident can someone in kiwi land shed some light. Of the various reports some say wreckage is on land and sea, some say no trace. Pictures on tvnz web site show part of the nose cone. If the aircraft was ChC - PMR then why was a turbine pressurised aircraft low level possibly below 3000ft if people were to here the aircraft flying around Paraparaumu in trouble without a mayday call or pan if something was going wrong. If inflight failure could of been a result why over paraparaumua, from kiwi days CHC- PMR didnt take you over the PP NDB. Where is Peka Peka? Do they still show the kiwi and his cat going to bed at the end of the TV broadcast?

[Hap Hazard]

May I add my condolence to all those affected downunder.
Sad news.

[quadradar]

Firstly, my sincere condolences go to the crew's families and colleagues. An awful accident such as this is a sad event indeed.

I am curious as to what criteria are used for temporarily suspending airworthiness status in cases such as this where in flight catastrophic failure appears to be indicated ...... another Convair was flying into / out of Palmerston North the next day ..... ZK FTA ..... owned by the same operator ..... seemed a little odd to me ....

Anyone out there know what's involved in these decisions ?

[Granny]

Has anyone read the latest report on this accident in the New Zealand papers ( www.stuff.co.nz )
There is a comment from the infamous Les Bloxam who describes himself as a retired pilot, his comments and analaysis of this tragedy proves he is total ********.
Why does the media seek the opinions of these idiots and then they are stupid enough to print it.

[Loc-out]

Very very sad news indeed.

I knew Paul, 30 years ago. Condolanses to all family and friends of the crew.

Yes I agree. Let the experts carry out their investigation before any comments as to possible causes. Same for all accidents, IMHO.

[Roll Spoiler]

Our deepest sympathy to all concerned... I write on behalf of the vast Kiwi contingent flying over here in Europe... We are all saddened to hear of this tragedy... Our thoughts are with both families and friends...

Best regards... Ex NZ Post Pilot

[123567]

Very sad loss to all those concerned.

We have lost two very liked and respected gentlemen.

If anyone knows when the services are to be held could you please post it here.

[yellow rocket]

Christchurch aviation writer Les Bloxham, a retired pilot, said the most likely scenario was the plane had tried to fly under the storm but had hit a tree and started breaking up before crashing into the sea. <Sunday Star Times>

[kiwilad]

aero
the track from chc - pmr is planned from cc-ty-pp-fxt-pm but depending on the runway in use at wn you can go cc-wn-otaki-pm of from cc- direct to pp or fxt depending on traffic and what atc clear you for.

as for that guy bloxham have just read about him in the stuff website, that guy really needs to be taken out and given a good thrashing.... he is a shocker....

[nike]

Again, where do these experts come from?

I can't believe that this guy Les B said that the plane tried to avoid a storm by flying under it and ending up hitting a tree and was happy to have that printed in the paper.

Why is it you never get statements off these guys when the reports come out and they are obviously wrong. The guy is a moron.

No one knows what happened.....yet.

I have been guilty of putting in my two cents in the past, but I now realise that there is no point speculating, better to be patient.

[Mr Proachpoint]

Hit a tree? Where do we get these gnikcuf idiot 'expert' commentators from? I'd like to see TV news chase up Mr Bloxham this afternoon and have him explain his theory in full on tonights news. I think they'd find him in Nandor Tandoori's kitchen spotting some real good tihs off the stove.

It amazes me that newspapers still source their information from these people. What amazes me further is that noone has the brains to discount or question their views before it goes to print.

What does it take to become one of these so-called experts anyway.

If hitting a tree is the most likely scenario, I can't begin to imagine what the more far fetched theories might be...............

MAPt

[prospector]

It would appear at this stage that they got caught with a extremely active storm cell. All the exits North out of Wellington were closed just after they would have passed over. At Paekakariki the main trunk rail, and state highway 1 were both closed due flooding, and the water came up very rapidly. I am only 25 km north at Paraparaumu and the weather was shocking for a period of about 2hours, torrential rain, mostly falling horizontally the wind was so strong. The general weather was bad but this cell must have been exceedingly active, and it would have been well buried in the wx system.

Prospector

[currawong]

Is there a legal type here prepared to run with litigation regarding Messrs Bloxham, Alley, Milne, Clarke et al pertaining to statements made in a public arena that are of a libelous/defamatory/slanderous nature?

There should be.

Evidently these journo low lives have even been hounding the families:yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

They need to be accountable. Aircrew are.

Absent Friends.:{

[skydozer]

Sad news, I knew Barry from when I was a kid and he was always one of the best. I understand that they were talking to OH and all was well when all of a sudden they reversed course and decended rapidly ....... 7 thousand feet or several thousand feet not sure .....

As for Les Bloxham ....... well my mum tought me if you have nothing good to say then say nothing at all! ... RIP guys you will be missed.

[BCF Breath]

Mr P
I couldn't agree with you more re the press! A simple public flogging of him would help me feel better!

My thoughts are with the families and friends.:{

[Dog One]

Sincerest condolences to Jan, Nicki and Nigel on their tragic loss.

[OVERTALK]

Any idea where the CV580 attitude indicators get their power and attitude data from?

Where the standby attitude indicator (if any?) was located on the panel?

Was it an upgrade EFIS panel?

Maybe someone can post this info and even a photo of the CV580 panel - i.e. as used in this fleet.

Sudden loss of even one attitude indicator in a very dynamic cell can cause mental mayhem. Upset conditions can develop in mere seconds and soon become irrecoverable. Structural failure soon follows (earlier than you'd think due to the asymmetric g induced in attempted recovery from a classic spiral).

It only takes a lightning strike and a bit of substandard airframe bonding....and electrical systems can take a real hit. Been there.

[radar vectored]

OVERTALK,
Attitude indicators are 115V AC powered on the CV580. Gyros are contained within the instrument. Three different possible sources of power. Two engine driven alternators and an inverter should they both fail. Bad night if all three should fail.
Standby Horizon Indicator is on the captain's instrument panel. The book states that the gyro is contained inside the instrument and mechanically connected to the display drum giving a high degree of reliability. Powered from the 28V DC essential bus.
Don't have a cockpit shot of the actual aircraft panel but similar to the photo on the link below. The standby is slightly obscured by the control yoke.

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/153701/M/

[gulfairs]

Convair 580 CH-PP-PM accident.

My sincere condolences to the families of the missing Pilots.

I new Paul some 20 years ago as a pupil for fixed winged flight instructor training. He had about 8000hrs then!
His ability to fly accurately with precision was insurpassable.
I under stand the Commander was of the same ability. a natural.

Mr Bloxham needs to be fitted with an Aero-Products prop blade in the obvious orifice for his public opinion of tree hitting, while creeping under a CB!!

I heard a report that they were at 17K and did a descending turn.
No news as of 0456GMT 6th Oct.

BBG

[Hudson]

Radar Vectored. I flew the Convair 440 Metropolitan years ago. It had a well designed roomy cockpit with easy viewing of the instrument panel and various switches. In contrast, when I had a quick peek at the Convair 580 panels at Auckland last year, I was very surprised at the hotch potch of instruments and navaid boxes seemingly thrown together with marked lack of ergonomics. It was quite confusing.

[Kiwi Flyer]

One thing I dont miss about living in CHCH, ENZED is that complete buffoon and self professed aviation expert, Mr Les Bloxham. I used to get so wound up reading the tripe he spewed out of his useless fat head in the Christchurch Press. Les, if your reading this, as I am sure you are you little snivelling turd, how about telling us what makes you an "Aviation Expert". Being a PPL at the Canterbury Aero Club won't cut it either.

You are an ill informed bottom dweller of the worst kind, in fact a complete @@@@!!! (rhymes with small boat sailed down the Avon!)

And my sincere condolences to all involved:(

All for now

KF

[slice]

Kiwi Flyer or anyone else that knows - Why is this Les Bloxham quoted by the Press and/or other media ? What is his connection to aviation aside from a PPL (if any)? Just curious.

[deadhead]

Aircraft was just north of Paraparaumu, descending thru F145, when all SSR information suddenly disappeared. The primary only return (sourced from Hawkins Hill PSR) was then observed in a right turn of about 20 degrees before it, too, disappeared.

This supports the theory that an in flight breakup at high (for a turboprop) altitude occurred.

I only put this here to disprove the idiotic notion that a crew on an IFR flight in a Part 121 aircraft wouldn have "hit a tree while descending under a storm" still some 50 nm from destination!

[Loc-out]

Interesting what this Les Bloxam chappie is speculating.

Maybe he was a "scud runner", even at night.

This is the only plausible explanation for his less than intelligent analysis of what happened that I could think of.

If correct, just as well he retired when he did, before he killed himself!!

On the other hand............... at least there wouldn’t be anymore imbecilic comments to the press, would there??

[radar vectored]

Hudson,
Your observation of the panels in the CV580 series is pretty fair. Of the three that I've had the pleasure to operate no two were alike. As the modification of the airframes occured over time things did seem to be added willy-nilly. In saying that, the standart instrument T and the engine instruments were all still in their standard place and visible. Many a happy hour I've spent in the company of such a fine aircraft and sitting next to some fine pilots. What these tragic incidents remind us of is that we are a lucky few that can call the skies our office and are all touched by such tragic events.

[Big Kahuna]

Les Bloxham, what a load of rubish. What else can I say?

Do a white pages search. Seems to give his email address, how convenient.

[Borneo Wild Man]

Due what appears to be an extensive wreckage trail and loss of radar return.No ATC comms or emergancy calls I would subscribe to an inflight breakup/seperation(at altitude) theory.So the question is,what caused this?
(My theory only)
So Bloxam you so called expert you seen any 7000 ft trees???
Yes big K ,Poor reporting indeed!Shameful infact.

[Wirraway]

NZPA

Plane crash area known for icing
07 October 2003
By PAUL GORMAN

Severe aircraft icing could have been a major factor in the crash of the Air Freight NZ Convair somewhere off the Kapiti coast.

An aviation weather forecaster revealed yesterday that the area is known by pilots as a black spot for aircraft icing, particularly in conditions such as those which battered the west of the North Island on Friday.

Damaging turbulence and lightning strikes are now thought less likely to have been present at the time of the accident, about 9.30pm on Friday.

The Convair 580, on the way from Christchurch to Palmerston North and piloted by Barry Cowley, of Kaiapoi, and Paul Miller, of Thames, appears to have been flying through the worst of the storm system about the time that torrential rain was turning parts of the Kapiti coast into a disaster area.

Six years ago, just on the other side of Paraparaumu, icing was discovered as a significant cause in the crash of a United Aviation freight flight, in which pilot Timothy Thompson was killed.

Freightways managing director Dean Bracewell told The Press the missing pilots were "two very experienced operators" who would not have taken any chances on flying if they considered the weather was too dangerous.

The MetService would not comment on the specific incident because of the air accident investigation. But operations manager James Travers said conditions might have been conducive to icing in the area.

Severe weather warnings had been issued for high winds and heavy rain throughout much of the country on Friday. Warnings were also issued for pilots by aviation forecasters, predicting possible aircraft icing and severe turbulence across the North Island, and these were in force during the evening.

There was at least one observation of severe turbulence that day, Mr Travers said. Major turbulence was reported by an aircraft pilot flying about 6000m south of Auckland in the late afternoon.

Despite earlier reports that lightning could have played a part in the accident, he said it did not seem there was significant electrical activity in the clouds over the area.

Icing could have been present. Its formation in that area would have resulted from high moisture levels in mild northerly airflows and uplift near the Tararua Ranges, the same conditions that could have led to heavy rain along the coast.

"There is the possibility that around the Otaki area particularly, icing can be particularly bad in moist northerly flows. It can be difficult (flying there) in icing conditions."

MetService weather ambassador Bob McDavitt called Friday's weather "abysmal".

The intensity of the storm along the coast was reflected in the extreme rainfall. The service usually described heavy rain as more than 5mm an hour, but up to 25mm was falling each hour in Paekakariki and Waikanae.

Mr Bracewell said up-to-date weather information for the flight to Palmerston North would have been provided to the pilots before leaving Christchurch, and updated during the flight.

"It's a very procedural business, planning a journey. If they had known of anything untoward with the aircraft or the conditions, they would not have taken off."

The ultimate decision on whether to make the flight or cancel was always the pilot's to make.

There was nothing unusual in making two return trips to Palmerston North in an evening's work, Mr Bracewell said.

The crash of the United Aviation flight in June 1997, two months before the airline went into receivership, was a result of icing and inadequate safety procedures, Wellington Coroner Garry Evans said in December last year.

============================================
NZPA

Firm stands by air safety procedures
07 October 2003
By COLLEEN SIMPSON

Freightways managing director Dean Bracewell said yesterday that Air Freight's safety record was highly regarded within aviation circles.

The only other accident on its record occurred in 1989 when three people were killed after a Convair 580 operated by Air Freight crashed at Auckland Airport, hitting an embankment soon after take-off.

In June this year, a Convair 580 got lost while en route to its new owner Fieldair, another business owned by Freightways, after navigational equipment was programmed incorrectly.

The cargo plane narrowly avoided running out of fuel and being forced to ditch in the sea after being safely guided back on course by an American military flight.

Mr Bracewell said Air Freight NZ maintained all its cargo aircraft in line with a regular timetable to comply with both internal and Civil Aviation Authority standards.

He said there were no concerns about the company's Convair fleet before the accident.

"If there were any, the pilots would have expressed them and the CAA audit would have shown them up and action would have been taken," he said. The focus now would be on the families involved and finding what caused the crash.

CAA communications manager Bill Sommer supported Mr Bracewell, saying the authority had no issues with the seven other Convair aircraft in New Zealand which would remain in operation, saying they were "very well suited to their purpose".

Stockmarket newcomer Freightways said the commercial cost of the tragedy to the group was immaterial and "insignificant in comparison to the lives of our missing crew".

The group said contingency plans had been put in place to help return normal services.

"This tragedy will, however, weigh heavily on the Freightways team," it said. "The safety of our people continues to be our highest priority throughout all our operations."

Freightways encompasses well-known brands including Post Haste Couriers, Sub 60 messengers, and Parceline Express.

=======================================

[Hit'emwiththeWagner]

Further to the comments regarding Mr Bloxham, did anyone on this forum see "The Sunday Star Times" assertions that the crew headed out to sea in order to not potentially endanger populated areas.
Being of the 'Aviation Enthusiast', rather than the 'Aviation Professional' persuasion, and with the utmost respect to the missing crew, their families and peers, the question I ask is how likely/feasible/plausible is that notion? I would have thought it unlikely, but I am no expert.
Are people on the ground a factor in decision making during emergencies?
I noted that no 'expert' was quoted as having this opinion, which leads me to think it is merely an editorial excuse for a good headline.

[chicken6]

Hit'em

Sometimes an aircraft may have the inability to maintain altitude while retaining the ability to steer (for-example-but-not-limited-to total power loss). In this case, avoiding the populated area is the best option.

My priorities (which I hope I never have to use) in an emergency of that nature are:

1. My safety, because if I survive, so will my passengers. If this cannot be guaranteed, then:

2. Save as many lives as possible i.e. miss buildings and populated areas.

If I can't touch the ground at normal landing rate of descent and/or attitude, then while in the air I assume I probably won't survive (but I'll damn well try if I wake up on the ground!) so I might as well leave the good folks on the ground to their peace.

I hope I never have to think about that for real. Condolences to the families.

[Eurocap]

Without trying to predetermine the cause of this accident, I have the feeling that poor old BC has picked up an enormous amount of ice, probably more than the aircraft can handle, has probably turned away from the area, as you would, and due to the increased weight and higher wing loading put the aircraft in an over stressed, unrecoverable position which has caused the aircraft to break up.

You have to have experienced the massive ice build up that can occur in the Paraparaumu - Otaki area to understand where I am coming from and I suspect judging by the conditions that were in that area at that time, that severe icing may have been the order of the day.

It is not a nice experience to have a massive ice build up, which can occur in seconds, even with the deicing working overtime, and feeling the the approaching buffet of a stall.

The only recovery I might add is to descend gaining whatever speed you can, without turning to prevent increasing the stalling speed, until you have sufficient speed to safely turn away.

[slice]

Hit'em - unlikely I think in their situation. The only time I would think about avoiding populated areas would be when a controlled forced landing was inevitable - even then a soccer field surrounded by houses looks a much better bet than a steep hillside.

[somyungi]

good theory but ice dosent remove large parts of airplane and scatter them over may miles prior to impact.

Best let TAIC do their job, les B your a C@#k

[currawong]

Hit'em

Are you a journo?

[amos2]

Good onya , chicken six (whatever!)...
the cretins down the back love to know that an ace like you is up the the front and knows exactly what to do when things go pear shaped! God help us all!

Now, on to more serious stuff...

did this thing have radar?

[TAY 611]

That Les Bloxham is an absolute clown. He is just another of those wannabe, armchair aviation experts that allways seem to surface at a time like this seeking self glorification and importance at the expense of a couple of guys who are now not around to defend themselves. :yuk: Disregard him.

[Hit'emwiththeWagner]

Thank you for your answers folks.

Currawong:
No I am not a Journo, just a geek seeking more informed opinion/comment than that supplied by the mass media.

[radar vectored]

Amos2,
Yes to the radar.

[Borneo Wild Man]

Do you think if the crew noticed aircraft performance deterioration(ie ice)they may have talked to ATC.Having had the crap scared out of me many moons ago in a turboprop Otaki-Ferry,yes ice build up can be sudden but not that quickly an experienced crew would not recognise it.Especially as it was forecast and the boys had flown the route for years.
What was the last radar trace rate of descent?(Maybe the largest peice of airframe)
THERE WERE NO ATC COMMS!

[convairnz]

Hi everyone,

Jan has asked me to pass on her thanks to you all for the kind words of support for BC and Paul. It has certainly been a hard few days for us all. This is something that no-one expected and why to someone like Barry.

As for the so called aviation expert, idiot, ******** and the other expletives are to kinder discription.

Let the real experts do their job and don't give the families more heartache than what they are already going through.

Once again everyone ; thanks a lot.

[the maori mobster]

I wonder if Ohakea had primary radar they would be able to give a better picture of the events that unfolded? I could be wrong but...............

I add the following NOTAM.

"B2371/03 FROM: 03/08/19 04:29 TO: 03/10/29 11:00
NZ03,NZ04,NZ05

OHAKEA PRI RADAR COMPLETELY WITHDRAWN WEF 0500 UTC 31 AUG 2003.
RADAR FLT INFO SER AVBL SSR ONLY WI OHAKEA CONTROLLED AIRSPACE
AND PALMERSTON NORTH CTR/D. AIP WILL BE AMENDED"

[MrNosy]

Hi Guys,

Is it thought to be correct as reported that the secondary radar returns from the flight were suddenly lost and (at the same time?) the primary radar showed the aircraft in an unexpected turn? The aircraft entered a steep dive which looks like it continued into the sea - the parts found remote from the impact area might have come off on the way down. There was no distress call received? and up until the loss of SSR, the flight had been progressing normally?

[deadhead]

MM: In this particular case the now-decommissioned Ohakea PSR would not have helped any more than the Wellington PSR at Hawkins Hill. This radar can see down to near sea level in the PP area, as could the Ohakea PSR, which, as I recall, was very handy when trying to fly NDB approaches into PP.

Doesn't excuse the decommissioning of Ohakea PSR though - a short-sighted but expected decision from the Air Force bean counters, and certainly if the accident sequence had occurred much further north, may very well have been useful.

MrN: The SSR data disappeared from the screen as the Mode C read F145 in descent. The controller was looking right at it when it occurred. The primary only target then made a slight right turn toward the coast, then it disappeared. Not sure for how long the primary target was visible after the SSR data was lost.

There were no indications of anything untoward prior to the dropout of the SSR data. No non-normal transmissions were made by the crew.

It is not known at this time whether the aircraft entered a steep dive. Only a small portion of the wreckage has been recovered. The crew remain missing, as do the data recorders.

[splatgothebugs]

If anybody hears how the search is progressing can you please post it. The media hasn't realeased much in the last couple of days.

Thanks

[kiwilad]

Heard on the radio this morning, unconfirmed, that the families have been informed of the possibility of the wreckage being located. They then went on to say that previous sonar returns of large objects that might have been wreckage, were in fact found to be large logs or boulders on the bottom. The divers are working in trying conditions with strong currents and visibility reducing to 1 metre. The search area being 12 square kms.
Might have more info by the end of the day. Hope that helps
cheers

[Yankee_Doodle_Floppy_Disk]

MrN: The SSR data disappeared from the screen as the Mode C read F145 in descent. The controller was looking right at it when it occurred. The primary only target then made a slight right turn toward the coast, then it disappeared. Not sure for how long the primary target was visible after the SSR data was lost.

Interesting. This may be how it played on screens in Christchurch, (or maybe your information is second-hand and slightly incomplete) but on the Ohakea screen, the aircraft continued on track for up to a minute after the SSR failure, then executed a sharp left hand turn back towards PP. At this point the aircraft was asked to confirm "ops normal". There was no reply. The primary symbol coasted 4.5nm bearing 010 from PP. (Primary cover to approx 1500 feet in this area).

The crew had just acknowledged a descent clearance to 7000 feet and were about to check the ATIS at Palmy when the transponder died. There was no mention of any weather or any other abnormality.

The aircraft was tracking on Foxton without any deviation and the groundspeed appeared perfectly normal.

I think we'll have to wait and see what the investigators find. I certainly hope they recover enough to determine what occurred.

[deadhead]

YDFD: Thanks for the clarification. I was hoping someone from OH would read and correct if necessary. My information is indeed, second hand, and apologies wrt "slight right turn". That is the information I had.

As for the look down to 1500 feet, my memory is getting a bit faded now, but I do recall in the days of the old SRE/NDB approach into PP, (prior to SSR) we used to get radar traffic down to the PP circuit, hence my comment "nearly to sea level"

Could you please further clarify "coasted" just to help us visualise further what the aircraft appeared to do - that is, did it track normally "coasting", then one minute after the SSR failed it appeared to make the sharp left turn?

Your final comment is of course valid, and most posts here try to avoid doing that, or at the very least inform any journos here that that idiot Les Bloxham, who bills himself as a retired pilot, and who seems to be the first person the media call (or is that the other way around) is a complete self-aggrandising (bit like that other buffoon, so-called aviation "specialist" Peter Clark) fool who should stay retired.

[jungly]

Thanks to all who have posted with the very best intentions. Many of us overseas are very interested in this for family and personal reasons. Esp some who are now with DHL in Belguim (ex-Airfreight). Good/honest info is hard to come by!

I thought the PP SRE/NDB only got us down to 1500ft (in the Blunty?)

ConvairNZ: Rgds to all and thanks very much from Frank. I know he is keen to hear more and saddened by this tragedy; I will pass any info on. PM me if you wish.

Have to ask YDFD....what do you mean "coasted on a bearing of 010 PP"...... to the NBD? 4.5Nm @ 240TAS is 1.1mins....thats an awful long 'coast'..........

I have to assume Les was intoxicated to make such an idiotic remark/assumption. Im sure he is staying low nowadays!

Rgds

[zulu kilo]

National News Release, 23:02, 10 October 2003

Divers have tonight recovered the two flight recorders or ‘black boxes’ from the Convair freight plane which crashed into the sea off Kapiti Island a week ago.

Police search spokesman Senior Sergeant Mike Coleman, Kapiti Police, says the boxes were found in the plane’s tail section, lying on the seabed about 35m below the surface.

"They were recovered from a section of the plane measuring about 10m x 5m x 3m," he says. "They’re in our possession overnight and will form part of the air accident investigation."

Some cargo harnesses were also recovered but as yet there is no sign of the bodies of the two air crew -- pilot Barry Cowley and copilot Paul Miller.

"It’s amazing the divers were able to recover anything today," Senior Sergeant Coleman says. "The water visibility was simply atrocious."

He says the divers have sighted a large cargo container and the whole area has been buoyed and marked.

The police and navy dive teams were joined today by the Wellington Police launch Lady Elizabeth III which has been undergoing a major repaint and survey work in Nelson. The Lady ‘Liz’ left Nelson late today and diverted to Mana overnight to pick up extra equipment needed in the search.

Divers will resume their painstaking trawl of the seabed at 8.30am tomorrow.

Police are asking recreational boaties to stay away from the search area off Kapiti.

"We know there will be a lot of vessels out being a weekend and there’s a lot of interest in the recovery operation," Senior Sergeant Coleman says. "The search area is marked but it’s a safety issue too that we keep the target zones clear for the search vessels and the divers."




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright 2003 New Zealand Police

[BaldEd]

For jungly and deadhead,
Radar 'coasting' is the term used when a radar return, from an aircraft being tracked on radar, is not returned to the radar aerial. The ATC computer then makes a track prediction as to where the target is likely to be based on history of previous radar returns. The target on the radar screen changes to a different form (indicating that this is a 'coasting' target) and moves this target on the radar screen to where the computer predicts the aircraft is likely to be. With the new Skyline equipment the letters CST appear in the aircraft label indicating that target is a prediction. This prediction (or coasting) display lasts for about 15 seconds, and if an actual return is not received before that time expiry the 'coasting' target is removed from the screen. Instances of where coasting can occur are: aircraft in a turn sheilding the aircraft's transponder from the ATC radar (when in an SSR only coverage area) or when a transponder is turned off in flight; aircraft in a turn and tracking tangentally to the Primary SRE aerial (when in primary SRE coverage area).

[splatgothebugs]

Just read that divers have found a body in the wreckage of the aircraft in 35M of water. They are not 100% sure if the other body is also there due to the bad wx stiring up the sea.

Finally some good news for the families, hopefully the other body will be recovered today as well.

All the best
splat

[Capt. Erebus]

From the NZ Herald;


Body retrieved from Kapiti plane crash site

12.10.2003
1.15am
Police and navy divers have retrieved the body of one of the two pilots who died when a freight plane crashed off Kapiti Island a week ago.

The cockpit of the Convair plane was located on the sea floor at about 6.45pm Saturday, with the body inside.

Police have advised the families of pilot Barry Cowley and co-pilot Phil Miller.

Senior Constable Keith Allen said police had not yet been able to identify the body, which was being sent to Wellington for a post-mortem investigation.

"The divers could not determine whether there was another body inside the cockpit," he told NZPA.

Mr Allen said the search would resume today.

The Air Freight New Zealand Convair 580 was flying to Palmerston North from Christchurch when it disappeared from radar between Peka Peka and Kapiti Island during stormy weather.

Divers on Friday recovered the two flight recorders that could explain the cause of the crash.

The flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorders, which were found in an 8-10m long tail section of the plane, are to be sent to North America for specialist analysis.

Major pieces of wreckage were located with the help of sonar equipment aboard the navy reserve patrol boat Wakakura.

On Thursday night it found nine "areas of debris" spread over a two kilometre area on the seabed, in 30 to 35 metres of water.

The search has been complicated by poor visibility -- due to last week's storms -- and strong tidal flows.

Kapiti police spokesman Sergeant Steve Kendrick said search conditions improved slightly yesterday and those involved in the recovery operation were heartened by the latest development.

"It's been an extremely difficult search in very testing conditions.

He said it had been a harrowing time for the families and friends of both men, and he was hopeful of finding the second body today.

- NZPA

[Yankee_Doodle_Floppy_Disk]

The latest from the police website:
http://www.police.govt.nz/news/

Identity confirmed for plane crash pilot

National News Release, 16:27, 13 October 2003


Dental records have helped confirm that the body recovered from the seabed off Kapiti Island is that of Barry Ronald Cowley.

Mr Cowley, 58, of Kaiapoi, Christchurch, was the pilot of the Convair freight plane which crashed into the sea between Peka Peka and Kapiti Island during the height of a rainstorm on Friday night, 3 October.

Police search spokesman Senior Sergeant Mike Coleman says Mr Cowley?s body was recovered from the cockpit on Saturday night. Dental records and papers found on the body helped confirm Mr Cowley?s identity.

A post mortem was held in Wellington today, the results of which will be passed to the coroner.

Mr Coleman says winds and rough seas prevented any salvage operation taking place today.

"We hope conditions will be more favourable tomorrow although the chances of finding the co-pilot, Paul Miller, are very slim," Mr Coleman says.

Copyright 2003 New Zealand Police

[currawong]

RIP Barry.

He was the type of airman most of us aspire to be.

Some of the experience he carried around just cannot be had anymore.

My condolences to the family.

Thanks Y D F D for keeping us posted.

:( :( :(

[deadhead]

Thank you all for your information, especially BaldEd and YDFD.

[Top of Descent]

16.10.2003 www.nzherald.co.nz


Police divers last night recovered a second body, believed to be that of missing pilot Paul Miller, from the area where a plane crashed off the Kapiti Coast nearly two weeks ago.

A Wellington district police spokeswoman said divers working off the coast north of Wellington, in the area where the badly smashed cockpit of the plane was raised yesterday, noticed what they thought was a body about 9.30pm.

A subsequent dive recovered the body and police hope a post mortem and formal identification today will confirm that it is Paul Miller, 50, of Thames.

Work to salvage the freight plane had been hampered by rough seas since it crashed in a storm on October 3 with two people on board.

But yesterday, perfect conditions allowed the cockpit to be brought to the surface, Kapiti police Senior Sergeant Mike Coleman said.

The body of co-pilot Barry Cowley, 58, of Kaiapoi, Christchurch, was recovered from the sea on Saturday.

Salvage operations for remaining wreckage will continue today.

- NZPA