Air France launching service to Kazakhstan

[newscaster]

AF will be flying to the Kazakh city of Atyrau their first destination in the central Asian region according to their winter schedule, Air France will be the fifth major European airline to operate to the country, service will be from Paris (CDG?) with a Fokker 100 of a franchise partner(who?) routed via Kiev, Ukraine.

Any idea why they chose Atyrau and a franchise operation rather than their own A320/321 to Almaty? KLM(767), British Airways(Bmed A321)), Lufthansa(A310) and Austrian Airlines(previously their own service, now code share on LH's A310) all fly to Almaty.

[BAe 146-100]

Hi,

Fokker 100 of a franchise partner (who?)

It could be CCM Airlines.

http://www.ccm-airlines.com/media/images/fokker_r1_c2.gif

BAe 146-100

[goatbusters]

It's more likely to be Regional than CCM but it seems like a strange choice of aircraft. Kiev is presently served with a 737-500 so is this an additional flight?

[newscaster]

Yes it is a Regional F-100 in full Air France colours.

[Golf Charlie Charlie]

As for Atyrau as a location, it is a) on the Caspian Sea amid the growing Kazakh oil industry, b) quite far to the west of the Kazakh centres of power (Almaty and Astana) - almost half way back to Europe, in fact !, and c) there is no decent or safe way of travelling from Almaty back to Atyrau without taking one of the Kazakh domestic flights, which foreign businessmen may be loth to do.....

[MEFLYBE]

I see that there is a good market for Atyrau in terms of yield, but all that way on an F100!!!!

That's like flying London to Tehran on an F100!!!!

No IFE!!!

Admittedly there will be a much needed break in Kiev, but thats a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong way still!

Regards

Mike:uhoh:

[newscaster]

Air Astana operating 737-300's apparently are as good as any quality airline as they have been set up in collaboration with a British company BAE Systems Ltd, they also fly international services to Dubai, Beijing and Moscow(taken over from flag carrier Air Kazakhstan). The airlines President Lloyd Paxton is British and an ex-BA employee. http://www.air-astana.kz/

[Confirmed Must Ride]

Air Astana work to JAA standards and have 2 757's about to be added to their fleet

[Aksai Oiler]

This part of Kazakhstan is pretty well covered by the oilfield Charter flights to Uralsk, Atyrau and Aktau.

For Atyrau this just adds to the European Airlines 737 flights from STN/LGW (if it's still running), Atyrau Airways TU134 and Air Kazakhstan 737 from BUD. I don't fancy having to fly via Kiev, when I can get a direct flight from London, Budapest or even Istanbul.

We also had rumours of KLM flying from Amsterdam. Anyway thanks for the info it's always nice to know

Oiler

[eal401]

Aksai Oiler, the rumours were of KLM flying to Atyrau?

As far as I know, Air Astana intend to commence ops from Almaty to Atyrau, offering a potential link-up with existing KLM/Luft/BA ops. Speaking for myself, it's bad enough using an F100 from MAN-AMS let alone the distance proposed here!

[newscaster]

I personally think a 45 minute to 1 hour flight max is enough to be on a small plane or a regional jet which the F-100 can be classified as, why airlines fly them on such long ranges is beyond my understanding.

Two other examples are Air Pacific(Fiji) 738 Nadi-Honolulu-Vancouver and Austrian Airlines F-70 Vienna-Baku(Azerbaijan) nonstop, infact OS just increased frequency on the route from two to four flights weekly, perhaps just one weekly with an A321 would have been better.

[Golf Charlie Charlie]

A weekly service to a place like Baku is not on. Most people who go there will be businessmen who most likely go for 2 or 3 days at a time, not wanting to stay for a whole week. Therefore, they will want some minimum frequency, eg. 3 times a week.

I have used Austrian Fokker 70s out of Vienna in the past to points in Ukraine and Russia and don't find them too uncomfortable.

[Aksai Oiler]

Eal401, greetings from sunny Aksai

I was told KLM, but these days with the proposed merger with Air Frog, what's the difference. Either way you won't find me sat on a Fokker 100 - I quite agree it's too far on a small plane for such a long flight. I used to do the Spanair from Madrid to Malabo on a MD87 and that was pretty awful.

As for Air Astana, about time we got something new on the GUW route. They are supposed to be flying from Uralsk to Almaty too but nothing has appeared yet.

[newscaster]

A related topic at another forum states that AF will be starting service to the Azerbiajn capital Baku as well and that both routes will be operated with their own A319LR and not the Regional F-100 as mentioned.

[eal401]

Askai Oiler, thanks for the greetings! Where is Askai by the way? I have only visited Almaty and Astana.

Air Astana does plan to fly to Uralsk, but I don't know when. They received their first 757 at the weekend, I'm not familiar enough with Uralsk to know if that aircraft is suitable for the route. There are further plans for regional aircraft of some description, but nothing concrete as yet.

[newscaster]

Permission not granted, they/AF now provide connection on Air Astana 757-200 from Amsterdam.

[Aksai Oiler]

Air Astana will fly twice a week ALA-GUW-AMS and once a week ALA-URA-AMS, once they get final approval. I understand their second 757 should be due soon.

EAL401 - Aksai is about 2 hrs (drive down a rough-ish road), east of Uralsk (I was out of country for a while, so sorry for the delay). Uralsk airport is pretty basic - Astreus fly a 733 there twice a week, on a charter from LGW & MXP. Prior to Air Astana flying on a regular basis, I saw a Government 757 on the ground there once, but the usual traffic is Yak42Ds, Yak40s and Air Kaz 732's.

We are hearing rumors that Astreus's twice weekly flight could reduce to once a week (after the winter), depending on how Air Astana perform with their flight to Schiphol.

I'm not sure whether Air Astana's flight to Atyrau will affect the charters to Budapest (Atyrau Airways are chartered to ChevronTexaco & ENI and fly TU134).

There are plenty of expats in this part of the world and I'm such Air Astana's flights to Europe will be very successful.

Oiler

[eal401]

Aksai, hello again!

Interesting, I didn't know Astreus flew to Kaz!

I'll be very interested to see how Air Astana perform on the new European routes. As I understand it, though not confirmed, return flights from Almaty to Heathrow will start from $510! I believe that is return as British Airways are in a bit of a panic about it.

newscaster; is the link between Air France and Air Astana formal? I've not heard anything from my end.

[flyhalf]

We're being told (at Astraeus) that Uralsk flights are increasing early in the new year and we'll be starting flying to some other place (begins with A but then quite a lot of the names look as though they do!) in the same country as well. There is no talk of a cutback.

[Aksai Oiler]

This is the scheduled for Air Astana as I was sent this AM from Almaty.

"AIR ASTANA will start operations to London on 16th December
2 / 6 dep. Almaty 14,20 arrival London Heathrow 16.05
dep. London 21.00 arr Almaty 10,10

and flights Amsterdam:
4 dep. Almaty 05.15 arr. Oral 06.30 dep. 08.00 arr. Amsterdam 09.35 3 dep. Amsterdam 11.00 arr Oral 18.15 dep. 19.50 arr Almaty 00.50

3 / 5 dep. Almaty 04.55 arr Atyrau 06.05 dep. 07.35 arr Amsterdam 09.35 2 / 4 dep. Amsterdam 11.00 arr Atyrau 18.35 dep. 20.20 arr. Almaty 01.10

2 dep. Almaty 01.25 arr Astana 03.00 dep. 04.45 arr. Amsterdam 08.05. 5 dep. Amsterdam 12.55 arr. Astana 01.50 dep. 03.30 arr. Almaty 05.00"

FlyHalf
As you appear to be from Astraeus (maybe I got this wrong), any idea what happened to our charter yesterday ? We can't get any info from our other friends in Aksai who Charter the plane, just that it will arrive at 17:25 (local) today

As for the other A's - there is Aktau, Atyrau, Aktobe, which all have international airports. As for the flight cut's they are just rumors - we are waiting to get official info. It's interesting that you may be increasing the flights.

Oiler

[eal401]

Where did you get that information from about Air Astana, Oiler? The date of the first flight keeps changing, it was supposed to be the 8th, I was under the impression it was the 13th now!! Personally, I'll believe it when I see the rubber burnt at Heathrow!!!

[Aksai Oiler]

From Air Astana here in Aksai

I'm trying to get the fares too, but it's a little more complicated. But you are correct when you say you will believe it when the rubber scrapes the runway.

As I said in an earlier post, their second 752 is due soon. As you probably know BAe Systems (or one of their affiliates) own 49% of Air Astana and many European carriers - BMED, KL & LH have flights direct to Almaty.

I can only imagine that most of the problems will be overfly rights through the other FSU states. A previous carrier (neither European not Astraeus) had their a/c escorted into Moscow (the flight was ex STN to URA) a couple of years ago.

regards

Oiler

[flyhalf]

Uralsk flight delayed by 12 hours due to a permit issue - apparently our application was "lost" inside the ministry of transport in Kazakstan.

[Aksai Oiler]

Flyhalf

I am endebited to you for the info, because we get nada from this end. I only hope that it doesn't happen next Wednesday, because I will be sat on the Window on Row 11 to Gatwick.

Kazakhstan is one of the wonderful parts of the world where if you don't have the right stamp & signature you are knackered.

Cheers from Aksai

Oiler:ok: :cool: