Bill Hamilton leaves GA for dead

[Creampuff]

I’d been reading this between the lines for a while (and perhaps I was the last to work it out), but Bill Hamilton’s left GA for dead.

Bill has been doing some posting on the “Australian General Aviation Forum”. In one thread Bill states among other things that:One very very well known aviation identity is of the view that things in Australia aviation will have to get much worse, before they get better. Before who ever is left wakes up. But perhaps they will never get better, will people just walk away, will GA slip below some critical mass where it can't recover. …

Is it all doom and gloom ?? Not if you get out of GA, and get into ultralights.

…

Thanks to many factors, GA may be dead on it's feet, but GA is not aviation, think about getiing [sic] into where it is all happening. And it's all fun.

Cheers,

Bill Hamilton[Bill’s emphasis]

Could any other AOPA director (snarek? gaunty? Marjorie Pagani?) let us know whether Bill’s view is consistent with AOPA Board policy?

The September/October 2003 Flight Safety Australia magazine includes, at page 41, an advertisement exhorting people to “join AOPA now”, so as to “keep General Aviation flying”. Bill’s view seems to be that GA is dead, GA is not aviation, and people should get out of GA and into ultralights.

I have to say that if Bill’s view is not consistent with AOPA Board policy, I think he was a teensy bit hypocritical in wearing his AOPA board member’s hat when he crossed the Rubicon.

[axiom]

Whenever I asked Bill Hamilton anything of recent he appears to be bound by some "code of silence" I guess the people who wanted him out of AOPA got a shock to see him re elected with a considerable amount of votes.

He appears to have been silenced at AOPA which must be a disappointment to the people who voted for him. A waste of his vast knowledge.

The way I read between the lines of the post you mentioned, a bit of a subtle rebellion, perhaps.

I doubt his spirit is broken, but given what he put up with over the last 6 months perhaps it is?

[bonez]

dear old bill

after presiding over aopa's worst ever period he does not know when to let go –he has no place in aopa any more and now he wants to inflict his skills on the auf – I trust they have more sense – bill is past his use by date and should stand back and let others that are just as well versed on the matters he believes he is the only expert on get on with the job

he is right in one respect – ga is almost dead – but then he was in charge of aopa as ga in oz died before his eyes and all he wanted to do was slam casa – but then aopa almost died in the process.

mind you he did do some good things along the way - lets remember him for those and not as someone that does not know when to quit

aopa and the auf should be working together in the interests of ga and not letting the egos of individuals keep them apart

[axiom]

Exactly when was this worst ever period you mention?

If was the period before this one, I would suggest you clarify who was running the show and it wasn't Bill Hamilton.

Ax.

[bonez]

he was so fixated on casa he never saw the earth crumbling underneath – worst ever – certainly was

don’t worry ax - it doesn't matter any more - that chapter is closed

[gaunty]

Please be assured that Bill Hamiltons view on "GA" as posted on the Forum linked above does not represent that of AOPA or its Board.

The Board has taken all reasonable steps to ensure that Bill Hamilton does not express such sentiments on behalf of our association.

AOPA strongly supports the ce-existence of ultra-lights, sport aircraft, and general aviation and promotes the growth of ALL sectors of aviation. :ok:

[Bill Hamilton]

Dear Creampuff,

Wonderful stuff, from an old sparring partner in our respective former lives.

Much as I hate to let the facts get in the way of a good story, anybody who just might wonder about what I actually said, in context, (given my efforts over many years in support of the survival of GA, along with encouraging light aviation in all it’s myriad forms) should go to the Australian General Aviation Community Forum web site, www.agacf.org .

If that doesn’t work, (there seems to have been a few server problems) go to www.aimoo.com and find the agacf site.

What the whole thread was ACTUALLY all about, what it developed into,starting from discussions about the NAS roadshow, was the survival of GA, and the cultural changes that have to occur, if GA is to survive and maybe even prosper.

The discussion grew out of a thread on the AOPA Forum about the cultural changed that are necessary in the aviation community, if we are to achieve the benefits that NAS can bring.

When I learnt to fly, there was no “sports aviation” as we have it today, no AUF like operations, but the atmosphere in which I learnt to fly was really pretty much the same as you find, across the board, in what is now Sport and Recreational flying, the AUF, GFA,HGFA,ASRA etc.

It was all good fun, we were all vaguely aware of “the Ministry”( UK) or “the Department” or “DCA”( in Australia) but they were entirely non threatening, non intrusive if not quite benign shadows in the background.

We need to re-create that sort of atmosphere, if we are going to attract enough people into GA flying for flying’s sake, those who will be PPLs, the backbone of GA across the country, not just those on the first stepping stones to a professional career.

That's not all we have to do, but it is, without doubt, a very major issue.

Or put it another way, if private/recreational GA can’t be competitive in the attracting of discretionary dollars (and the omnipresent CASA casts a deep shadow, not a great marketing tool) GA will continue to drift in the doldrums.

The original posts are all on AGACForum, as is a deal of other interesting stuff, go have a look.

Cheers,
Bill Hamilton.

[brianh]

Creamy

You are truly a master wordsmith and master of subterfuge. I don't know whether to compliment you personally on this or if it is rather part of the standard training package of your former employer?

Having looked at the totality of Bill Hamilton's postings I suggest you have taken a section out of context and used it with adroit legal skill to try to shaft Bill.

Truly, language was given us to hide our real thoughts and can be manipulated accordingly. For example, were I to state "you would be fortunate indeed to get Creampuff to work for you" it would have exactly opposite meanings depending on reader interpretation. Likewise the wife who put in the death notice for her husband "May he rest in peace, until we meet again" - depends on how you stress the "until". Your selection of the bits re Bill dovetails nicely into this category.

Good try mate but I suggest we could also examine the statement by our USA colleagues the Kings at the NAS Seminars that Ultralights are strong in Oz compared to USA. I have been trying to think of a reason and have discussed it with others and all we come up with is "The Regulator" in Oz - no matter how hard we tried we couldn't blame Bill Hamilton.

Gaunty
Also a nice attempt to damn Bill, oh man of two tribes.

Does your support for GA include freedom of debate or is it true that the censor has been gagging the AOPA Forum again? Is "a girl named "sue" " about to enter on the legal threat trail again and try to gag any comment that does not represent what a section of the AOPA Board would like to hear? Obviously "support for GA" means "do it our way".

Wouldn't it be better to ignore the slings and arrows and get on with the macro issues? Perhaps not - last time that happened and the message of joy and good things to come came back to AOPA members after the Mick Toller meeting he resigned shortly thereafter. Hey, that's a thought - how about a meeting with Anderson?
Cheers
brianH

[snarek]

A cold shiver of anticipated attack runs down my spine.

To start with Bill doesn't represent AOPA's views. Those are represented when someone claims to represent an AOPA view (which Bill didn't and I don't here).

I think Bill is still entitled to an opinion. I don't fully support it, but that is probably due to some niaive wording rather than evil intent.

All I read Bill as saying is that the AUF is doing well and GA isn't, yet.........

Why isn't it?

1. P!ss poor regulation.
2. Restrictive costs in a country of very high taxation (this is the 'we have already paid for the infrastructure' argument.)
3. Short sighted government of both persuasions.
4. Industry backbiting.

Bill H isn't on that list.

Now why Bill H's comments have been taken so seriously I don't know. How about we all (me included) give the guy a break.

Instead of this, "he's to blame. no ... he is, no ... she is" bullsh!t how about we all spend the time we waste on backstabbing letting our local member know that our vote depends on his/her support for GA.

Please :)

AK

[Bart Ifonly]

snarek , wow, I'm impressed, for once you have got it right and I find myself agreeing with you......maybe I'm coming down with something.:D

[brianh]

I agree - good point that Bill is entitled to freedom of opinion - if he makes an AOPA comment I would anticipate he would indicate it was an AOPA comment. Does John Howard barracking for a football team indicate the Government supports that team - no way!
Well done Akkers.
brian H

[[email protected]]

Bill Hamilton is probably not unlike me and most of the others out there who can see the forest. He probably does not like AOPA nor CASA nor any organisation that has an agenda representing themselves nor anyone who can sit at a computer and bang out criticisms without any idea of how to actually solve the problems GA has faced for years.

I have read some of Bill's posings and know of his ideals. He scares you who hide behind your keyboards and manage to do absolutely nothing to advance your own industry other than to advance your own agendas.

Bill has guts. You all are cowards. So ban me from this site to stop such criticisms and exposing you for what you really are.
Or just threaten to sue me for having an opinion that upsets you.

I do not think that this posting will remain on this site so I am going to post it on the AGACF site as well so that everyone can read it and wonder why it was removed from the AOPA site.

CM Skip Summers
0407 697 197

[Emeus]

Bonez is correct.
BH is well and truly past his use-by date.
History will confirm the almost mortal wound he inflicted on AOPA.
He is now sulking about his near defeat in the AOPA elections.
Bill now sees the AUF as a safe harbour for his rantings. AUF will suffer the same fate as AOPA if it is not very very careful.

[Bart Ifonly]

Skip, thank you for having the courage to speak out in support of Bill Hamilton, you are quite correct.

[brianh]

Despite the attempts to shaft Bill Hamilton by those with hidden agendas, the fact remains that he WAS democratically elected by the AOPA membership.

One would anticipate that the vote was based on Bill's PAST performance; rather than the election of some other new AOPA Board members based on promises that may or may not come to fruition. Therfore, criticising Bill's past performance and the members choice of him as a Board member is actually criticising the ability of the majority to choose their elected represenative.

To requote the comment of those who have tried to gag any threads on this Forum when AOPA is mentioned with any degree of negativity "let go folks, the election is over". Bill was elected and should serve his term without a back full of knives.

If anyone wants to criticise AOPA Board members, the first place to start is with those who are using their position to gag freedom of expression on this forum and the AOPA forum. I understand Andrew W is still censored - that will teach him to make an honest comment and be a member of the AGAF forum. Absolute power corrupts and it's time Bonnie and Clyde realised that they are denigrating their positions by their use of their power to gag free speech. I might not agree with what has been said by some posters, but I agree with their right to post it.

Vive la revolution.
Brian h

[Torres]

"It was all good fun, we were all vaguely aware of “the Ministry” (UK) or “the Department” or “DCA” (in Australia) but they were entirely non threatening, non intrusive if not quite benign shadows in the background.

We need to re-create that sort of atmosphere, if we are going to attract enough people into GA flying for flying’s sake, those who will be PPLs, the backbone of GA across the country, not just those on the first stepping stones to a professional career.

That's not all we have to do, but it is, without doubt, a very major issue."

Probably one of the few comments in this thread with any merit!

Well said, Bill! :ok:

[Creampuff]

Dear Bill

A wonderful and entirely predictable response!

I trust you’re well.

After I waved away your usual vast experience smoke, and shielded my eyes from the dazzle of your usual motherhood statement mirrors, the plain words which I quoted above were still there.

No matter how many times I re-read the context, no matter how much I squint, I can’t construe your word as meaning anything other than what they say. Context schmontext!

I still think you were a teensy bit hypocritical in wearing your AOPA board member’s hat when you crossed the Rubicon.

[brianh]

Creamy
Do I detect old wounds still bleeding?
Time you two old foes buried the hatchet (but not in each other).
You both have much wisdom to offer the assembled multitude apart from duelling skills!

Any comment on the Repeal of CAR268 and Amend of 269(1)(a)?
Cheers
Brian H

[slice]

Please spare us the histrionics about hiding, cowards, threatning lawsuits etc. - it was one of Bill's partners in crime (from out West) that started the lawsuit circus with regards to this bulletin board. He is still bitching away over on AGACF and his masturbatorial rantings towards the organization that he was once VP of, show what a total merchant banker this **** is. Bill was there during the big AOPA decline as well, so don't get upset if the rest of us don't see him as a saviour of Australian GA.

"Bill's posings" ?? hmmm - freudian slip perhaps! :E

[brianh]

Slice

Bit harsh but I guess it is easy to judge people on the bad bits of history - wasn't the old saying that it takes 100 good deeds to overcome one misdeamour?

Of course, we don't have any history on the current new crew but it may be interesting to return to their performance in say 3 years?

As an aside, I note Boyd - who is fairly canny at avoiding legal suit - particularly from quick draw Bonnie of AOPA notes that NO other organisation but ASA campaigned for the CAR 268/269 results mentioned in my last post.

Lo and behold, I just read my AOPA mag and it has an anti that legislation by Marjorie P and - what balanced approach by AOPA - the rebuttal by CASA. I'm impressed - future AOPA magazines may well become highly sought by members of debating teams wanting to gather for and against material for debates. AOPA will of course win the day by such an approach - the massive AOPA team with years of aviation law background versus the tiny CASA bureaucracy which will not have the time to churn out their half of the debate.

Oh dear, I'm getting confused, think I'll have a little lie down and contemplation of what it all means. Hey, CASA could hire Bill Hamilton - don't I recollect he put in a lot of time actually putting in submissions on behalf of GA?
Cheers
Brian H
PS I believe Bill Pike has resigned - he probably got sick of emphasis on moderation of the AOPA Forum instead of matters GA?