Xeque
10th Sep 2003, 15:31
A couple of nights ago, trawling around Pprune and (dare I say it) not entirely sober, I responded to a rant in Jet Blasts about inconsiderate cattle class pax who insist on fully reclining their seat from “seat belts off” to arrival and to the obvious discomfort of the poor sod immediately behind particularly on long haul flights.
I suggested that a one-class configuration with extra seat width and legroom was not beyond the bounds of reason. In retrospect, what I suggested in my Jet Blast response was not really feasible but it prompted me to look a little closer into the matter.
Using a 777-300 as a typical example of today’s long haul aircraft, I took some statistics and scale drawings from Boeing’s web site and made a surprising discovery.
A 777-300 cabin in 4 sections has about 138 to 140 feet of usable seating area excluding galleys, toilets and doors. The cabin is 19’ 3” wide.
If you take a 2-4-2 seating cross-section and 38” seat pitch (Business Class standard) you get a total seating capacity of 348.
This means that everyone can sit in a 23” wide seat (armrests excluded) and with that magic extra 6 inches of legroom that enables the seat to be reclined with full leg support and without compromising the space available to the person immediately behind.
Crew levels could be set at 2 Flight Deck (3 on long haul flights) and 8 Flight attendants.
Some additional thoughts for passenger comfort are:
1. Put all tray tables and video screens in armrests so that they are not affected by movement of the seatback in front.
2. Reserve the rear section for families with small children only and make provision for more cots.
3. Reserve the forward section for businessmen who would like to work during the flight and give them access to telephones and electrical sockets for laptop computers.
4. Use the centre two sections for all other passengers.
5. Provide 4 toilets for each cabin section.
I can get an economy class return flight from Bangkok to the UK for between GB£380 and GB£500 depending on the carrier I choose. A full flight of 348 pax should therefore realise between GB£132,000 and GB£174,000 (less 7-10% for agency discounts) and to which should be added income from cargo, mail, specie and domestic animals in both directions.
Operating costs (for both flights) including fuel, airport services and in-flight navigation charges, crew salaries and subsistence, aircraft lease/depreciation, maintenance and insurance, cleaning, catering and IFE must be deducted.
I need other Ppruners who know about these things to help me rationalise the numbers.
The primary questions are:
1. Are the costs for (say) a BKK/LHR return flight, greater than the income that could be generated from my 348 happy and comfortable passengers paying an economy class fare?
2. If the airlines could make a profit from these figures then why are we allowing ourselves to be treated in such a shoddy manner?
I used a 777-300 as my example aircraft and I don’t know if the aircraft has the range for BKK to UK. I have only ever done the trip in 747’s before so I stand to be corrected in this.
I suggested that a one-class configuration with extra seat width and legroom was not beyond the bounds of reason. In retrospect, what I suggested in my Jet Blast response was not really feasible but it prompted me to look a little closer into the matter.
Using a 777-300 as a typical example of today’s long haul aircraft, I took some statistics and scale drawings from Boeing’s web site and made a surprising discovery.
A 777-300 cabin in 4 sections has about 138 to 140 feet of usable seating area excluding galleys, toilets and doors. The cabin is 19’ 3” wide.
If you take a 2-4-2 seating cross-section and 38” seat pitch (Business Class standard) you get a total seating capacity of 348.
This means that everyone can sit in a 23” wide seat (armrests excluded) and with that magic extra 6 inches of legroom that enables the seat to be reclined with full leg support and without compromising the space available to the person immediately behind.
Crew levels could be set at 2 Flight Deck (3 on long haul flights) and 8 Flight attendants.
Some additional thoughts for passenger comfort are:
1. Put all tray tables and video screens in armrests so that they are not affected by movement of the seatback in front.
2. Reserve the rear section for families with small children only and make provision for more cots.
3. Reserve the forward section for businessmen who would like to work during the flight and give them access to telephones and electrical sockets for laptop computers.
4. Use the centre two sections for all other passengers.
5. Provide 4 toilets for each cabin section.
I can get an economy class return flight from Bangkok to the UK for between GB£380 and GB£500 depending on the carrier I choose. A full flight of 348 pax should therefore realise between GB£132,000 and GB£174,000 (less 7-10% for agency discounts) and to which should be added income from cargo, mail, specie and domestic animals in both directions.
Operating costs (for both flights) including fuel, airport services and in-flight navigation charges, crew salaries and subsistence, aircraft lease/depreciation, maintenance and insurance, cleaning, catering and IFE must be deducted.
I need other Ppruners who know about these things to help me rationalise the numbers.
The primary questions are:
1. Are the costs for (say) a BKK/LHR return flight, greater than the income that could be generated from my 348 happy and comfortable passengers paying an economy class fare?
2. If the airlines could make a profit from these figures then why are we allowing ourselves to be treated in such a shoddy manner?
I used a 777-300 as my example aircraft and I don’t know if the aircraft has the range for BKK to UK. I have only ever done the trip in 747’s before so I stand to be corrected in this.