CPL hours in a twin

[mathewb]

Hi all,

This is the question that i have been milling over the last few weeks and i would like others who have experiance to throw in there 2 cents

Currently i have around 120 hours and i am comfortable in the operation of a light single. For the remainding 50+ solo that i need i have been offered to complete this in either C182 or Piper Seminole. Mind you that money is not so much an issue for me as i have a fulltime job.

Is there any value in doing CPL in a twin ?

Some people have mentioned that after you have finished your CPL that you should only really pay for twin hours as that 50-100 hours may help in getting that first charter or something like that.

what do you think ?

cheers

mathew

[outboundjetsetter]

!!!!:hmm: are you kidding!.Dont mean to sound rude mate but money is an issue.It doesnt matter if you had 10 million spare let alone a full time job if you want to progress to do a cpl and further training you will find your bills are endless!!.If your 'future employer' or training school has any sense they wouldnt want to see their twin being used unnecessiarly either.forget about low flying with your mates in it for now, finish your cpl in the single- you will have plenty of time/hours to progress later when you do beacon bashing for an instrument rating or try flying the semen hole on one engine!.with due respect you may feel youve mastered flying a single having 150 odd hours but you need to concentrate on your cpl in a single first before finding how interesting flying can really be!.
outbound 1900

[gary gearbox]

Although there are no golden rules as to whats best and whats not.... Generally speaking the twin hours would be an advantage at some stage if you can afford them. 2 mates of mine did their cpl in a twin and they ended up getting on a twin quicker than others finishing at the same time. Did not help them get the first job quicker however. It will make stepping back onto a single for that first job easier. If you choose the twin for your cpl training you may want to get in a few 210 hours b4 you step onto the twin. It will get the brain used to the faster speeds and more complex systems that you will use in the twin. 210 time may also help with that first job down the track.

Have Fun G.G.

[solowflyer]

have a look at simuflight.co.nz the diploma (zero - CPL IFR) course they run is based on multi crew IFR in a twin

[GA Driver]

I did the last 25 hours of my CPL in a twin and although it didn't help me get a job initally and probably didn't help me for the first two years of my employment, it DID help when it came time for VFR and IFR Charter as I already had the 5 and 10 HR command requirements.

Later when I moved onto my Instrument rating I already had some time on the aircraft and was reasonably familiar with the systems.
I believed this to be advantagous from the point that everone had told me the workload of the Instrument Rating was high and I didn't want to be 'learning' how to fly a twin whilst 'catching up' with the IFR workload.

My two cents

Cheers,
GA Driver

[Continental-520]

No one I know has flown a twin as P.I.C. below 1000TT, even with the endorsement. There probably are stacks of people on here who have, though. Good idea to get used to the twin before finding yourself assymetric in cloud, I guess, but I wouldn't spend too much $ on it, cause I have a feeling you might well be in dire need of them once you're working in the industry.

Put it this way, you can get paid to fly a complex single without having to buy twin time yet, and that will also be advantageous to you for when you're actually applying to a company who operates twins. I find I need to be quite vigilant and 'with it' to keep up with a 165kt TAS single, which of course is as fast as some basic twins anyway.


520.

[compressor stall]

For a few reasons.

1. When you are looking for your job, you are already 50 hours closer to the twin requirements.

2. Your instrument rating will be MUCH easier as you are already familiar with the concept and speeds of a twin.

3. When you sit your CPL test, it will feel easier as you are used to more complex faster aircraft (like getting back into a warrior after an arrow)



As for the costs, think of what it might save you down the track:

1. Faster IF rating
2. Don't have to private hire a twin to make minimums for company requirements
3. If you are instructing, you have the minimums for Multi Training should you choose to.

I could not recommend it enough, and wish I had the $$ when I was doing my training as you seem to have.

Good Luck

CS

[mathewb]

Thanks for the non bias reply from most of you,

I am in no delusion that the extra twin hours will get me a job faster cause this is just stupid,

The cost difference between the c182 and seminole is +/- 50 bucks so this is really not an issue.

I figure that doing the CPL twin will help by,
* making the MCIR a bit less stressful cause im not trying to learn how to fly the twin at the same time.
* If there is any problems with my CPL flying then the twin flying will definately highlight them faster.
* eventually when i try for the twin charter job up north the 50hrs twin time will help somewhat.

cheers

mathewb

[Col. Walter E. Kurtz]

I have to absolutely agree with Comp Stall and BIK - the twin is the better option if you can afford it.

Whatever you decide, you want to have at least 30-40hrs on what ever type you decide to use for your CPL test.

[FO Cokebottle]

Hey dude......

There is no regulation which states that you NEED a CPL to undertake your IFR rating.

If you are going to pay for twin hours to gain your CPL hour requirements - get smart with your money.

[Bevan666]

You dont need a CPL to hold an IFR rating, but you do need 50 hours cross country time to attemtp the flight test. That may be difficult to come by when you have only 100 hours TT.

Nothing stopping you doing the training though. A better choice may be doing a Night VFR rating.

Bevan..

[StraightnLevel]

Does anyone out there still do PA31 endorsments (besides Johnsons)????.

About a month ago I was looking at doing one in NSW/Bris and no one would take my money, all gave the same excuse that they didn't like training in them because their engines were being run-in:confused: or only did in house endorsments.

[downwind]

Mate,

I have to agree with the majority of people who posted, do it in a twin, more valuable than a single, at the end of the day COMMAND TWIN TIME IS KING!!!!! THE MORE THE BETTER!!! Majors/Regionals/pels/GAMS/pearl all require that 500 multi engine command time, puts you ahead of the competition a bit when looking for the elusive first job, IMHO the flight school won't give a sh#t, so long as you treat their babie's nicely!!!!!

[FO Cokebottle]

To quote from a famous pub song

" GAMS...PERL"

"Who the f@#k are GAMS...PERL?"

[druglord]

Honestly you outta do it in a C206 or C210, those hours will never hurt. Even if it's only 10 hours they'll be a world more useful than P38, or B76 time.

[Angle of Attack]

I suppose it really depends what you want to do later, but Twin Command time is king, not immediately for your first job, but a few years down the track it will make a difference. After I did my PPL, I got endorsed on an old beat up Baron, and used that for flying around if I had mates, friends,collegues that wanted to go for a flight and cost shared. I was working at the time so there was lots of people to find who would be keen for a jaunt somewhere. By the time I got my CPL I already had more than 50 hours command Twin Time, it didnt help me for a couple of years, then I found myself in a company that needed a Baron pilot and I was the only one with the hours and ended up flying it pretty quickly, so I can say in the short time it doesnt really help job wise, but it helps with your IF rating as you said, but in the long term more likely than not youll be happy you got those hours! Just remember its no use saying, Ill get the twin time later, because you might be working in GA and on that measly wage 50 hours command in a twin private hire is about a decades wage!! good luck!

[sancho]

Druglord,

What type of Piper is a P38? If you mean a Lockheed P-38 Lightning then I dont think there is too many of those left in AUS....

[FO Cokebottle]

perhaps a twin commache......:ugh:

[druglord]

Sancho,
yeah whoops, whatever a seminole is...that's what I meant.

[FO Cokebottle]

You mean a PA 44

[Jamair]

Do it in the twin - wish I'd started ME flying in the CPL.........stick in the same one for the CIR as well.

StraightnLevel - for a PA31 endo have you tried at AF, there's one on line at AFTS. QAS (CDR) can also do them - John Eglen is the CP/CFI there (although he has been away sick a bit lately). Otherwise if you've got better than 250hr ME & a CIR drop me a PM & I'll hook you up with my mob.

[compressor stall]

Druglord does have a point - along the way it might pay you to get 5 hours on a C210 as well. This is the aircraft you will almost certainly be flying at some point in your career and is many bush pilot's first job. You will put yourself head and shoulders above the other resumes if you have a few hours on type for the first job.

Still do the bulk in the twin though for down the track as discussed above.