C210 info needed

[Foxtrot_Lima_Mike]

G'Day Guys !!!

Need some info from the CARs and CAOs experts here...

Is dual hrs required on a C210 for someone who holds:

CSU, Retractable Gears and a/c <5700 kg MTOW Endorsements ?

Does the logbook needs a sticker stating that the flyer has been checked on the a/c to be able to log CMD hrs on it after?

Can't those hrs be ICUS instead of dual?

And lastly, does anyone know a flying-school having a C210 parked at the back ?

Cheers.....and thanks

[Sheep Guts]

No.



But if your hiring it from a school or individual, youll have to meet the Owners Requirements and If I owned one I would check you out before letting you lose. Where abouts are you going to hire one?

[R555C]

There is two Cessna 210's at bankstown operated by Chieftain flying school. Expect between 1 and 3 hrs Dual b4 they let you hire it.

[Bevan666]

While there might not be any regulatory requirement for dual and/or ICUS time, there definately will be an insurance requirement.

These days the requirements of insurance companies greatly outstrip those defined in the regulations.

Bevan..

[Foxtrot_Lima_Mike]

Thanks for your replies guys...

SheepGuts....I'll rent it at Bk I guess...seems this particular school is the only one having those rides..

FLM

[Transition Layer]

F_L_M,

Don't let Chieftain con you into a "5hr endorsement program"!

Just tell them you want to get checked out in the minimum amount of fuss - out to the Training Area for some GF and handling, back in for some circuits. If they suggest you go up the lane and back a couple of times, tell them to get f*arked...

Enjoy the C210, one of life's great pleasures.

TL

[compressor stall]

You could legally (but foolishly) get into a C210 and fly it VFR never having gotten in one before provided you the pilot are CSU and retractable undercarriage rated and conform to standard recency requirements (BFRs etc).

Although as described above, no operator would let you do that - I sure as hell wouldn't! Having said that I did once have to get into a 206 in the middle of the bush and fly it back to town never having been in one before. :}

Enjoy the 210. It is a fine machine that will perform very well, but it will bite if not respected as many have found out to their peril.

[Foxtrot_Lima_Mike]

Wilco that Transition_Layer !!!!

Already got in touch and yeahh...one chap told me...2-5 hrs dual !!
And even possibility of ICUS hours after that- For a prop sake, it's a single engine ride..

Anyway...cheers,
F_L_M

[R555C]

The operator at BK was fine when i wanted to fly it, i think i did about 1.1 of General Flying, and that was it.

[flying_phonebox]

Imagine ringing Chief**** up for an endorsement in their namesake aircraft !!!!!

Can't you juz imagine the phone convo: "Yes sir we offer that type of training for you, but may we recommend you undertaking our 'Twin Orientation and Sophisticated Systems (TOSS) and 'Further Aeronautical Knowledge On Fuel Filters (FAKOFF) programs.
Our Advanced Multi-engine Training Program culminates in 25hrs dual upon which you may need up to another 25 hrs ICUS to make sure you fully understand this severely complex aircraft"

hehe

[Foxtrot_Lima_Mike]

What about the 206? Are there any around Sydney?

FLM

[jtr]

You know this kinda stuff really sihts me. I know it is a little faster than the average CSU retractable, but for christs sake, anyone trying to milk you for more than an hour is taking the p1ss. Its bad enough that the criminals charge $300/hr for the clapped out heaps of crap.

Rant complete.:ooh:

Good luck finding an honest operator.

[the wizard of auz]

Maaaaaate, you would sh!t ya self if ya seen what they charge for em over here. they are just a big 182 with a few kilos and knots on em and the way they carry on over these parts, you would think they were giving ya a 727 endo.:mad:

[Wheeler]

'Its bad enough that the criminals charge $300/hr for the clapped out heaps of crap'. etc etc

Some of you flying geniuses are really amazing!

Have you ever seen the maintenance, insurance and fuel bills for one of those 'clapped out heaps of crap'? - obviously not! Not to mention BK/hangarage charges.

Even at $300/hr, you'd probably find the best the owner is getting is a bit of cost recovery - unyet the average hirer comes along, convinced they are getting ripped off, treating it like **** as soon as your back is turned - and then wondering why owners and insurance companies put restrictions on!

How many 210's have you seen with the nosewheel ripped off? - quite a few if you are an insurance assessor - and guess what that makes the premiums go up, and guess what that gets passed on to you geniuses! Reading this crap really makes one wonder why anyone would bother hiring out anything!

[Ang737]

Hi Wheeler

Mate I totally agree. Although I am not an aircraft owner I was always told that taking care of an aircraft conveys professionalism. Not just with on ground cleaning etc but also in the air. For instance I have heard of people simply cutting the power in 210 at TOD, I can hear the cylinders screaming from here.

If I did own an aircraft I sure as hell wouldn't hire out to dim wits who don't look after aircraft. Put it this way, if those of you out there who dont give a s*it remember that I might just be a mate of yours who flies the aircraft next. !!!! :mad:


Ang ;)

[Hottie]

Fellow Professional Industry Colleagues,

A very interesting topic this one. It seems it has culminated into 2 main topics of discussion - the first, and original being the Legal Requirements, ie CARs and CAOs for hiring a C210, and secondly the expenses involved in training for a C210 Check, prior to being allowed the priveledge to hire such an aircraft.

While I don't have any specific advice with regards to the Regulations aspects, my only contribution stems more on the side of training required etc.

Having a little over 1200 hrs on the C210, which was accumulated during my NT flying days, I can vouch for you all, as many have said already, that it is a magnificent machine to fly - it does exactly what you make it want to do. Again, if not treated properly, it WILL bite, as will any flying machine.

Now, with regards to training aspects before being allowed to hire one, I am fairly diplomatic in this area. By this I mean, sure - you shouldn't have to do 3-5 hours dual flying before being allowed to hire one, especially if you have CSU and Retractable Endorsements already. I guess Total Time and the Pilots handling skills during the check are what are used to determined how many hours to 'train' the wannabee hirer.

Then, on another note I can only imagine just HOW much expense is required by the owner in keeping his/her aircraft available for hire. How many of us have spoken to aircraft owners who mention the horrific expenses involved in keeping a 'simple' aircraft online, such as a C172, PA28 etc ? It is truly amazing, and a testimony to this would definitely have to include the pricing of fuel, parking fees, maintenance fees with regards to parts and moreso ageing aircraft fleet aspects..... the list does go on.

All I can offer to those considering a Check flight in a C210 is to treat it carefully. Sure, it is a bigger C182RG .... 'bigger' being the operative word. It IS rather slippery at first for the prospective flyer with not much time on such aircraft but not an aircraft that requires the same attention as a 727 Endorsement ( I liked that one :ok: ). Don't allow any company to 'take you for a ride' but on the same note, consider that they are Legally responsible if anything DOES happen.

Above all, when you do have the approval to fly it , ENJOY IT ! It is a fabulous machine. Besides, one can even takeoff and land with a heavy load out of airstrips no longer than 800m with the Flap System completely U/S.. but that's another story ;)

Best Regards to all.

[squire]

By Crickey Youse blokes hit the flamin nail on the head with that one. Don't youse other blokes know the operators not trying to make any money? He's a blimin philanthropist (sorry for the big word), the operators just spending his energy and time so youse can fly around with a great ****e eatin grin on ya face........Fark his family an life eh chaps jus so long as you fellas are havin a good time eh!:} :ok:

[jtr]

Well wheeler, since you are so keen to defend $300/hr for a 210, lets hear your breakdown of hourly costs.

Fuel\Oil
Maint
Insurance
Hangarage
Cleaning/Misc
CASA

No you are not getting depreciation as you have written off your last 5 tax bills with it. If as you point out the owner is only getting a bit of cost recovery, then perhaps they should dump the A/C and put the money in a worthwhile investment!

Standing by to discover the sacrifice being made to allow FLM the joy of poling a 210 for the bargain basement price.

[bush mechanics]

We stoped hireing out 210s years ago.To much damage to props doors,you name it it was F@##$,You guys would be surprised how much some parts are.ie,rear baggage door latch,$310.00,trade price.Soo next time any 210 drivers out there let the door slam shut just think 3\4 of your weekly wage is just been F@#$%^Plus labour costs ,Its over the hourly hire rate!!

[CurtissJenny]

There appears to be something forgotten in this thread.

Someone commented about the lack of C210s for checking out in and for hire.
The reason that there is a lack of C210, C206, B36, PA32R and even C182RG type aircraft is that history shows us these aircraft get hired by guys with low time who then take them away and bend them !

The result is that there is a lack of the type available for others to hire/use, the insurance premiums go up so the owner/hirer has to put increased minimum experience requirements on hiring them out. The increased minimum requirements discourage some hirers or cannot be met by same with a resultant lack of utilisation resulting in the owner selling the machine. It then goes up country never to be available for checkout/hire again.

And guys wanting to hire those high performance types then grumble about the cost of hire and lack of availability !