Grounded! - for a Specialist Appointment

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

A blood test reveals an underactive Thyroid, a need for more blood tests and to see a specialist before treatment.

When I pointed out that it was a bit drastic to medically downgrade someone, just to ensure he was present for his specialist appointment the Doc changed his tune.

Until I see the specialist, my thyroid problem is 'undiagnosed' and therefore....blah blah blah....duty of care (covering your arse more like)

Restricted to UK flights only (maybe we could declare war on Wales)

Minimum 2 month wait for appointment!

Now, its not my business if the medical branch have recruiting problems (or have suffered cut backs) but you can't downgrade someone and then put them on an NHS waiting list.

What's a poor boy to do?

Go private?

Meantime, plenty of time for gardening, ppruning and the Rugby World Cup. I might get used to it.

[force_ale]

You could always fish out your denims and spend a few weeks on the line.:D

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

Well I'd love to help out but....I've got this underactive thyroid.

[Ali Barber]

When they discovered a heart problem that had been present since birth (and for the duration of my 17 years flying to that point), they made me "2-pilot only". RAF sent me private and fixed it PDQ. Mind you, took a year to get a RAF medical board convened afterwards to confirm my "single-pilot" status. Ask the medics to send you private and queue jump. You're a valuable commodity being wasted while you wait for the NHS.

[StopStart]

No he's not.


:ok:

[MightyGem]

SS, your either boasting, trying to impress or both. STOP IT.

[Angler]

I know a fellow with a bad leg (actually there are a lot of old boys on the Sqn, and most of them are falling apart). Said leg required an op, followed by 2 weeks leave, and back to flying duties. No, that's not what happened. The waiting list to see the specialist was 6 months, and then it was on to another waiting list for the op. As the old fellow was in a digital crew position, and the Sqn only had enough of his ilk for one per crew, the boys were struggling to meet ends meet. End of the war for my mate, despite the most expensive field hospital that ever stood on sand sitting idly round the corner.

Not impressed, he made a justifiable fuss with the medics and asked for private attention, but there are no funds for it.

What happened to the promise of the NHS taking over when our own hospitals were cut? Seems that the queue-jumping deal was only valid for the first year, and we are all the same as the general public nowadays.

Oh well, the war was nearly over by then.

[StopStart]

MG

Pardon? Not sure what you're on about....

[Impiger]

I thought we were already at war with Wales!

[country calls]

Just to add doom and gloom to your despondancy, the NHS waiting list will be even longer now, because all the medics in the MDHUs were shipped off to the last desert bunfight. At Peterborough alone this caused the closure of two wards.

So be prepared to wait in line behind Mrs Smiths bunnions, as they clear a big swathe through the quick and easy jobs, in order to bring the 'time waiting for an appointment' stats into line with Il Presidente's promises to slash NHS waiting lists.

Any chance you can SMS me the rugby results, as I will be way out west when RWC starts!!!!

CC

[BEagle]

If you join BUPA whilst still in the mob, you'll get a good discount which stays once you've left.

I joined because I'd lost any faith in the current medical system following its downsizing in recent years. More staff dragged away to Phony Tony's bring-a-bottle wars, fewer permanent facilities......and no sign of things improving. To rely upon the overstretched NHS seems to invite problems, so I'm paying £61.14 per month for peace of mind.

And yet we once had an excellent RAF medical system - but isn't that the way most things have gone?

[MightyGem]

SS, your present location!! :sad:

[SOMAT]

Like BEagle, I too joined BUPA before leaving the RAF and, what with one thing and another - creaky bones etc - I've had more than my money's worth ever since with no waiting, private ward etc. My dearly beloved, and the wife, are also included on a considerably discounted RAF 'family' scheme.

[Stan Bydike]

Would appreciate a link to the BUPA scheme mentioned above.

Oh, and can you get Dental cover. And also what about going to live outside the UK.

Ta

[BEagle]

Stan - try www.bupa.co.uk/ and for expat etc info, try www.bupa-intl.com/ .

Not sure about fang-farrier insurance. Most people reckon that the cover isn't worth it as you may as well pay for treatment if/when you need it. Plus, unlike medical insurance which can be compared to breakdown cover being insured after you've produced evidence of having a current MoT, dental insurance seems to be more like "Yes, OK. If you fit 4 new tyres, have the engine overhauled and that dent in the door repaired first, then we'll cover you....." Unless someone can correct me?

[SteadyNote]

I too, joined BUPA whilst still serving, attracted by the low rates. However, this year's increase was an eye-watering 14%!
At that rate, my spreadsheet tells me that, in 2028 (in the unlikely event that I'm still alive), my monthly premiums will be £2,939.12.

[LowNSlow]

SPHL don't wish to depress you any more but the treatment for thyroid problems seems to be a Black Art.

My missus has a underactive thyroid and the treatment prescribed was increased incrementally until a desired blood reading was found. She went from being as lethargic as a dope smoker to as wired as a cokehead! She then took it into her own hands in the end and varied her pill intake until she felt OK. She'll be taking them for the rest of her days as I understand it. This was after going through the rigmarole of seeing a GP then a specialist and finally a third specialist. :hmm:

[aviate1138]

"SPHL don't wish to depress you any more but the treatment for thyroid problems seems to be a Black Art.

My missus has a underactive thyroid and the treatment prescribed was increased incrementally until a desired blood reading was found. She went from being as lethargic as a dope smoker to as wired as a cokehead! She then took it into her own hands in the end and varied her pill intake until she felt OK. She'll be taking them for the rest of her days as I understand it. This was after going through the rigmarole of seeing a GP then a specialist and finally a third specialist"

For years I had a hypothyroid condition that had me low on energy to put it mildly. My AME got me referred to a Serious Medical Expert who put me on Thyroxine to raise the level. After 6 years of experimentation and second opinions I am now off Thyroxine as apparently my level is OK now. A BA 747 Captain with a similar condition was grounded by the Company as a result of negative cardiology results [ the two seem somehow linked] Four years later with views from another cardiologist he was fully reinstated. Flew 747-400's until he retired last year.
IMHO Thyroid conditions need more than one view and whatever the intial findings I would get a second or even third opinion for what it's worth. The heart seems to do odd things with low thyroid levels in some people.
I was always told that once on Thyroxine that was it for life.

B J

"I spend my money on aeroplanes, women and booze - the rest I just waste"

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

Thankyou all for your comments - keep 'em coming

News from the Lovechild camp is that I made my points to the Civvy locum doctor, and quickly established that the SMO has the power to over rule and give special dispensation, so I'm still a gnats cock short of being grounded.

2nd set of blood samples getting done and interview with the SMO coming up. That's where I get to argue against medical downgrade whilst waiting to go to Peterborough.

All info on this subject gratefully accepted, but I'm nowhere near the pill popping stage yet.

[Anita Bush]

SPHLC
Our 'Harry the Staish' used his own funds to send aircrew individuals with long term back/joint problems off for MRI scans. The waiting list to see a specialist was 4-6 months followed by further wait to get MRI. The bottom line is how valuable an asset are you to the sqn/stn? Can they afford to have you off flying?
If you get into that situation of having to wait then Push to Test - go see the Big Man and see if he is willing to cough up the dosh to send you private.
Best of luck

[The Swinging Monkey]

SPHLC

I went private some years ago for an op on a broken foot (which the air force had ignored for a month) It cost me about £1200 (a lot then!) and, after putting myself off sick post op for a couple of weeks, I duly pitched up at the sqn ready to fly.
The Boss sent me straight to see the MO, who then decided to ground me, explaining that aircrew can't do this sort of thing etc.

After presenting the MO with the bill for the said £1200, and pointing out that I would let the nice civilian surgeon know what the MO had said blar, I was suddenly allowed back to fly! After further (heated) discussions about the £1200, bad publicity etc, I got the said amount refunded.

I hate to say it, but it depends very much on how big your ball$ are, and how much you value your career in flying.

The medics won't understand anything other than medic stuff, so it's no good trying to 'negotiate' with them. As you have found, they will only cover THEIR arse$ (certainly not yours)

Take them on, stand firm against them, and if it all gets nasty, explain that the 'missus' might have to drop a line to ???

Good luck
The Swinging Monkey
'Cauthers, is it time for my afternoon tipple yet?'

[Zoom]

Agree with BEagle about BUPA - I joined on leaving the RAF 18 years ago and pay similar to BEagle with my RAF discount, despite a couple of minor claims. And their hospitals are so cosy!! But I have noticed that my premium increases are (understandably) picking up pace as I approach my dotage.

I suggest that you dig out your back copies of Which? to check who is doing the best deal as there are plenty about. I seem to remember that BUPA didn't - by a long way - get top billing in said publication a few years back.

[Anita Bush]

Alternatively…
Advice from Mrs Bush – NHS secretary for20 years various specialities, including haematology – for anyone experiencing long waiting list times.

1. Telephone the consultant’s secretary. BE NICE. Explain who you are and what you do. Ask if they have any short notice cancellations. If they don’t then tell them that you can make any short notice cancellations in the future if it would help them (it will – it keeps their stats looking good).

2. If the above doesn’t work then offer to go private. Ask how much an appointment for examination would be. It won’t cost much (depending on specialities, £70 and up) and has the advantage that you will go straight to the Big Cheese instead of his minion SHO. Can’t afford the exam? Then that is the time to go see Harry the Staish.

3. Once you have had the appointment, tell the consultant that you wish further treatment / operation to be done on NHS. Both private and NHS patients then go onto the same treatment plan. You may get slightly better treatment going private but the waiting time should be about the same from then on.

4. Provide secretary with chocolates / wine etc (better for the next one who tries it).

If all else fails –go for a sex change. Top priority, funded by the RAF and you may get promoted!:ok:

Best of Luck

[SirPeterHardingsLovechild]

Snatching Defeat from the Jaws of Victory

You'll have to wait for the last paragraph to hear the crazy scenes at the med centre this morning.

First I need to bring you up to date.

And I do this

a) So that people can learn from my experience
b) To unburden my misery, thus achieving closure
c) So you lot can laugh yer heads off

To recap. I have an underactive thyroid, once established that there is no tumour or disease, I'm on a pill a day for the rest of my life, 6 month blood test, adjust dose as necessary.

Simple.

Lets do this in conversational format

Lyneham Doc (from initial post)
Until you see the Peterborough specialist, you are 'undiagnosed' so I am temporarily downgrading you.
So I went private, got it diagnosed, no disease, no tumour, one pill a day, write cheque for £200
Will you upgrade me now (and can I have my £200 refunded)
No
3 months Later - Peterborough Specialist
Lovely, smashing super, but we'll keep you downgraded until your Thyroid function is back within limits
But...
This is not negotiable
3 months later, pills have done their job. Lyneham Doc
Will you upgrade me then?
No, you're under the control of Peterborough now.
(Appointment in March)

Today at the Med Centre
(Just missed out on a good detachment, now I'm a bit peeved, got an appointment, practiced speech, no swearwords.)
BINGO! SUCCESS! Walk out of doctors surgery will F Med 566 stating 'Restore previous MES, Fit for full operational duties.

FOR ALL OF 15 MINUTES

You already know the punchline

Dr XXXX XXXXX BSc MB (Lon) DRCOG MRCGPP FRCS (Edin) Surgeon & Physician has signed the above mention F Med 566

Cpl Jobsworth (Med Sec) knows better!
He can't do that.
He can, he's signed this bit of paper.
Yes but he can't do it
Well he has
He's not allowed to do it
'scuse me isn't your job to do what he tells you on this bit of paper I've given you
Well yes, but also to stop him doing things he's not allowed to do
Okay, fair point, we have the same with our officers
etc etc etc etc


:{

[BEagle]

Tell that jumped-up corporal to pick a window....

[betty_boo_x]

From bitter experience I wish it were as simple as chucking people through windows!
The med brigade move with no haste at all. Faced with an identical situation(after18mnths downgraded) the Sgt (med admin) brought me down to earth, advising that the ONLY person who could deem me fit was Pres of Med Boards himself.
Well I retorted get me an appt soonest- certainly sir,that will be 6 weeks then.
Eventually got there, bloke was a raving hatstand! Signed me up in 10 mins.
Sir Peter..........keep smiling and good luck :eek:

[Stray Fin]

I had a minor snag which grounded me three years ago. I was told that an appointment to see an Army specialist in Peterborough would be a 6 week wait, with the inevitable operation even later still.
Fortunatley the Sqn boss knew there was a secret stash of money on station to send aircrew "private" if required - and insisted that there shouldn't be any further delay.
To cut a long and not-really-very-interesting story short, despite SMO's best attempts to conserve his funds, the boss won and I was sent private to have the op 2 days later.
The travel cell did leave me to return from the hospital via train, though. With no fewer than 2 train changes. In the snow....
B*strds.

[Roghead]

OK then- story time.
Decided to pull the handle and get out on my 38/16 point.I had a slight hearing problem but it didn't affect my fast jet flying cat. A few months prior to departure the Boss called me in to say that their Lordships had said that if I retracted my decision to leave I would be on the first Tornado Sqn, and he had a posting notice to confirm.However, it was too late and plans had been made so I left. Plans didn't work and so I applied to rejoin.They seemed keen and promised me flying (fast jets prob Buccs again) and sent me to London for aircrew medical.Guess what?.... I failed.
"your hearing's not up to aircrew standards"
"Well it was Ok when I left a few months ago"
"Ah, but you were in then and now you're not, and 'cos you don't match up to the standard required for new aircrew, we can't have you."
It gets better.
Two years later at Thumrait I was chatting to the then RAFPMC who was visiting his boys on exchange with SOAF and was bemoaning the shortage of experienced front line fast jet aircrew. So I told him my story and his reply is not printable.Write to me personally, he said, and when I get back to UK it will be sorted. I did, and unbelievably, he couldn't. The medical mafia defeated the RAF's senior aircrew personnel officer.
Still, never mind, I did get back to fast jet flying and a pilot's licence thrown in-thank you BAe Warton and my hearing was not a problem.

[PilotsPal]

If the BUPA rates look a bit on the high side, try PPP and WPA.

[BEagle]

Roghead's saga is simply appalling - but he probably had the last laugh on the MoD...

All goes to show why aircrew have such deep-rooted distrust of the quacks and, unless it's for the mandatory annual bollock-fondling, will avoid the Medical Centre like the plague!

[papercut]

I'm not going to fight my corner too hard as some decisions made can be wrong in retrospect and working to a fairly rigid set of rules can lead to the medical-mafia appearing, well, rigid.

An under (or over) active thyroid can have subtle effects on mental functioning. These are often not appreciated by the sufferer at the time. Many patients with treated thyroid disease will admit that they now realise how slow they were when diagnosed.

We try and avoid putting people who are not fit into situations were we would expect them to perform at their best or crash and burn. (note to self, trot out mantra. Duty of care. Duty of Care)

For the benefit of stray fin and others, the SMO does not have access to any slush fund that would pay for private treatment. The Staish might, SAR Force Commander might but not the SMO. Us poor suckers are stuck with referring you to the NHS and then apologising for the poor service it gives.

One thing that might be worth bringing up is the priority system for MDHU referrals. The priorities 1, 2 and 3 (without my crib sheet and trying to translate into aircrew terms from memory 1= aircrew at readiness to deploy. 2= other operational aircrew and aircrew in training) The agreement with the MDHUs which I presume still stands, it's been around for years, was P1 couple of days, P2 couple of weeks P3 couple of months.

NB this is referrals to MDHUs not all NHS hospitals. NB2 it is for conditions that affect operational fitness. No matter how baggy you face you'll still wait for your face-lift.

Good advice from Mrs Bush. note the be nice comment. the last thing I need if I'm trying my best to help is you getting arsey.

[Anton Meyer]

If the doc thinks you may be at risk or put someone else at risk, they can do exactly what they like.
They can absolutely downgrade you and put you on an NHS WL if no other local MDHU availability.
Covering your arse, actually.
You are actually just like all the rest of the front line medical staff, NHS and military, none of whom are treated any differently.
Just put your hand in your pocket and get on with it.

[Top Bunk Tester]

Although slightly off thread, I do have an overactive thyroid which will become relevant towards the end, this is more along the lines of Medical Farce / Veterans Agency Farce.

I had just returned from an excellant Red Flag resupply route and walked into the office to be asked "Do you want to go on the next weeks Winter Survival Course in Bad Kolgrub?", most excellant I thought, "You'll have to do the fitness test first!" OK, gets on bike peddles furiously to RMC and books appt for the next morning, rides to gym and takes bleep test, which I passed, rides back to mess and congratulates self on two weeks free skiing coming up. Suddenly clutch chest and think "8uggar!". Staggers over to RMC to be told to take a seat in waiting area. Told by fellow grow bag that I look like sh1t, return to desk and collapse. At this point RMC kick into overdrive, SMO summoned, I'd just spent 4 months down south with him so knew him quite well, he tells me that I'm having a heart attack. Morphine in and off to Wroughton, blue and twos all the way. Needless to say I survived but was grounded from that point onwards, no arguments from me at this point, only the thought..."8uggar!". Found out later from perusing my Medical notes that my previous Aircrew Medical showed an elevated Cholesterol level, but I was never told of this!

2 1/2 years later I am diagnosed with an overactive thyroid at Haslar (What a marvelous decision to base the only military Hospital in the country in the country's most innaccessable place!) Eventual outcome being lots of Radio Therapy, several operations, pills forever etc. I was medically discharged six months later, the primary cause being the heart attack.

After many years of fighting the Veterans Agency/Binnsworth they came up with the following:

1. My Thyroid complaint is attributable and attracts a Temporary 30% War Pension but is not my Primary Discharge Complaint

2. My Heart Attack is attributable but is assessed at 0% disabilty and is my Primary Discharge Complaint

My question is as follows:

How, in the name of Zeus's butth0le, can a complaint that is already acknowledged as attributable, that has finished my aviation career military & civil, that means I have to sit at a desk all day doing a crappy IT job, that means my standard of living has dropped considerably..........be assessed as 0% disability?

I only ask, as even a rating of 0.5% could mean that my pension could become tax free. Or have I just answered my own question? :sad:

PS SPHL if an overactive thyroid means you loose weight, you must have had an underactive one for as long as I've known you (15 yrs) also it's probably the only "Specialist Appointment" that you'll ever get, hope you get it sorted soon m8;)