Hmmmm - why does this story sound familliar?

[WE Branch Fanatic]

I came across the following on the net....

http://www.spyflight.co.uk/Nim%20aew.HTM

Will they ever learn?

[BEagle]

A very accurate description of the NimWACS farce, WEBF, thanks for the link.

Interestingly, it would have been highly dependent on Air Refuelling. In 1984 I recall my final AR check on the VC10 course. The 'trade' included a NimWACS which took many, many attempts to contact the centre hose. The bow wave from the nose radome kept pushing the drogue away; eventualy after several desperate lunges the thing made contact. It looked far from easy; any aircraft so dependent on AR should be designed with the ability to operate in the AR receiver role well sorted out from the outset.

"Essentially, like so many other MOD procurement disasters, the Nimrod AEW 3 suffered from requirements that changed, inadequate project management and, in an attempt to save money, the 'bodged' adaptation of an elderly airframe, rather than shelling out on a new airframe designed exactly for the purpose."

Bodged adaption of an elderly airframe...hmmm, any points here for those attempting to turn BA's elderly 767-336s into the next generation AR aircraft for the RAF to bear in mind? Aircraft which, according to the bidder's own website, will require 'substantial refit (including engine upgrades)'.......

[maniac55]

Could be worse.

They could be trying to make the MRA4 using the MR2 airframes, because that would really cause problems!!! :rolleyes:

Oh, we are.:uhoh:

[ChristopherRobin]

this should be required reading for all in Northumberland House and elsewhere

[bluetail]

Excellent link,

But sadly what,s new, I recall a NIMWAC slowly being reduced to produce over many years at "Ice staion Kilo" I think it was 51, it made the final NIMWAC flight from Abingdon north I believe.

The aircraft was finally taken into a well know Elgin scrappy for a total of £2k I believe, £75 MM to 2 grand, now there,s a bargain, I bet they made that back on one jet pipe.

And as for the MRA4, are you serious, it's got no chance. 3 jets to Lincoln and that's your lot. But there,s a nice new (empty) building waiting for the Sim up north.

Known by a few (and upset many)

[RatherBeFlying]

Another thread reports that the carrier, previously HMS Vengence is on the block for A$7 million.

Buy the boat back, put on a couple Hawkeyes, save buckets of money!

[steamchicken]

Well, my grandad worked as a GEC Marconi test engineer on the project....but surely anyone could see it was too ugly to work! (Thank God they didn't go through with the idea of putting a giant radar on an Andover with jets tacked on - the mind boggles)
And the admin genius of making two entirely different chains of command responsible for the aeroplane and the worky bits....was very likely knighted....

[WE Branch Fanatic]

In 1982 a surprise conflict in the South Atlantic demonstrated the importance of Organic Air Defence with (Organic) AEW. This is not the subject of this thread, but I like to mention it anyway.

Within HOURS of HMS Sheffield being hit by an Exocet fired from an aircraft that had made a low level approach to the task force, permission was given for the development of an AEW capability for the Navy. The Searchwater radar, fitted to the Nimrod (MR versions) was adapted and integrated with the Sea King airframe, all within NINE weeks. An incredible achievement, and an indication of what can be done without political interference, bad management, beareaucracy....

Searchwater had orginally been designed for detecting periscopes, very small radar targets, at a considerable range.

My question is twofold:

1. Did anyone think about using Searchwater (with modifications) for AEW purposes or was it "let's re invent the wheel"?

2. During the 1982 conflict would it have been possible to use Nimrod/Searchwater to provide a least some AEW capability (in the later stages of the war)?

[Oggin Aviator]

Thorn EMI, as it was before it became Racal, had actually approached the Navy with a plan to take the Searchwater from the Mighty Hunter and put it in a SK. This was a result of the RN losing its organic AEW capability when the old Ark Royal decommissioned and the AEW Gannets of 849 NAS became gate guards.

This plan was flanned by the powers that be of the day. (As a result of the Nott Defence Review we nearly lost the LPD's and Invincible as well - had the conflict happened a couple of years later we would have been stuffed).

Therefore in the Spring of 1982 the old plan was resurrected and hence as an urgent operational necessity it is not surprising it only took 9 weeks to get it on Lusty and on its way down to Islas Malvinas. One of the chaps heavily invoved in this project got the MBE which was well deserved.

I think it would have been possible to tweak the firmware to turn the MR2 into a limited AEW platform, in as much as the Mk2 SK AEW was quite limited. It would have benefitted from being able to get much higher which would have helped immensly.

However it could not have operated organically (at the time) as it couldnt obviously operate from a carrier and there were'nt any five star hotels local to a long runway nearby.

[Navaleye]

My understanding is that early Sea Kings AEW2 s were very limited in capability and unable to share data with other assets. During the Balkans campaign(s) they were only used for defensive purposes over task groups. The ASaC 7 is a very different beast. Not only has its detection capabilty been improved but it has one of the best MMIs in the business. Even uncle Sam is impressed by it. Its overland capability is excellent - especially in the desert.

I would not discount of the possibility of chucking the lot into a Merlin airframe for CVF.

[Oggin Aviator]

RN Site here. (http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/2008.html)

849 NAS Site here. (http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/818.html)

In the MK 2, we were able to communicate by voice alone, and a lack of Link 11 was a limiting factor. Now the Mk 7 has JTIDS which is a real force multiplyer. The HMI (not allowed to call it an MMI!!) is awesome, state of the art. I can see the mission system going into the Merlin, there is a nice picture around the bazaars from Westlands with a EH101 with a bag and little stub wings - all fluffy and cute!

[WE Branch Fanatic]

It would be even more of a force multiplier if the Sea Harrier was retained fitted with JTIDS, as had been the plan...

My query about 1982 was whether expedient methods could have been used to provide extra warning of low flying Argies, particularly Exocet carrying ones. They were in the South Atlantic already....