ops staff welfare

[Fly_146]

With crew duty hours strictly limited, is there any restriction for ops on the hours they work, rest allowed and whether they are allowed to work alone on nights?
:)

[Fosters Expat]

NONE. BUT WE'RE ONLY OFFICE PEEPS.

SO DIFFERENT TO FLYING IN A METAL TUBE.

OH WELL.

[blackbox]

The only thing which protects ops staff, is the EEC WTD (working time directive).. It’s a long document which you should find on the internet.

Couple of points I can remember:
1. An individual should have a least 11hours undisturbed rest.
2. An individual should not be rostered anymore than 48hours in a 168hour week. (Overtime is at the individuals choice and is therefore not rostered)

Don’t think there is any rules regarding working alone on nights, security jobs come to mind..

[srs what?]

However, there are a lot of proposed changes. Had a sneak preview of the proposals the other day and if they were implemented it will have a huge effect on companies and organisations throughout the country and not just in Aviation.

The main proposals are:

1. Working no more than 8 hour shifts. This would mean hiring additional staff and to cover a 24 hour period would require an Early, Late and Night style shift system.

2. No option for the employee to 'opt out' of the regulations.

3. Lone night workers to be issued with something like a movement detection bleeper monitored by a central station.

4. Minimum rest periods and regualtions similar to those for air crew ie, no more that 'x' amount of night duties in 7 days and no more than 4 nights in a row etc.

[opsjockey]

Its also possible to opt out of the proposed 8 hour day regulations (as my company are doing)....

[FEBA]

In a previous life this regulation or to be more precise, rumour of it, caused me great concern. Firstly it would have driven in considerable cost and secondly and more importantly, caused huge work pattern disruption for everyone in ops. This caused me the most concern as the shift working pattern should be by common concensus of all of those that have to work it. This is what we did and where possible made it as flexible as possible to accomodate the work life balance.
Now if this regulation comes into effect and I'm not atall sure that it will, it will cause you guys to:
1) Loose money - no overtime
2) Reduce your annual leave
3) cost you more in commuting to work
You guys need to think very carefully about this new law and oppose it in numbers. A twelve hour shift pattern can be a killer (nights!!) but it does offer the best work life balance. 8 hour shifts seem to last just as long as twelve!
Rgds
FEBA

[acmi48]

the whole idea of economics from a company point of view is not to put one self into a overtime situation but utilise effectively what you have and can have

a basic 5 day a week 8 hour roster with required 30 min break forseen under european regulations wil involve intially sufficient numbers to perform such a task at cost but at the same time improve multi tasking with lower entry salary


in a medium airline this will involve not only movement control,dispatch at desk but also additional tasks,library update,diplo clearances,office filing..something to cover 2 or 3 extra postions

the numbers will cover training,reduce vacation deificiency and improve overall productivity

pilots saw fit to reduce working hours with no impact,are ops staff bedding their careers with 'i can earn' on a month premiums

in the end the quality of life will suffer and the turn over will reduce if you hang to onto 12 hour rosters and the expense of others and your own improvement in promotion and placing into management

the world is full off old unfufilled ops controllers just like loadmasters and naviagators and this i beleive is the last generation currently we will see with gathering technology

[FEBA]

ACMI
Firstly leave my island.

Secondly since when did reducing aircrew duty hours reduce cost !

Thirdly try working an 8 hour shift pattern compared to 12. Will you still advocate it?

Lastly think beyond the numbers game. Work life balance is a fundemental duty of management, ignor it and you'll loose good staff. High staff turn over - constant fishing around the bottom of the recruitment barrel = driving in cost. Daft practice.

FEBA

[acmi48]

FEBA

ref island.. i got there first but your welcome to join

ref 8 vs 12.. in europe 12 hrs is outlawed already in most countries,max allowable 10,with 48 hours off per week rostered

the plus side is that shifts are recognised as unsocial hours and therefore youre employee will or will have to pay a premium for you to work on weekends and nights and most cases nights must be covered by 2 persons due to international security and safety regulations

the company that seeks high turnover thru cost re structuring are those same managers that in the 70's and 80's advocated low cost salaries (in the uk at least) and kept the 'job' on that footing
by avoiding the issue of qualification which in europe was already becoming a standard- those managers are srill around and most likely ex mov cons themselves

the 12 hour shift in my opinion reduces effieciency as the persons ability to maintain concentration falls away with work fatigue

ref the recent survey here on prune what was the concensus of 8 vs 12 in the work environment for controller/dispatchers/ops duty officers taken over the world

finally ref the licencing issue, if the licence was a dependant on 8 hour shifts but became obligatory for jar ops carriers with the salary fixed to this,no airline be it ba or fr will try to avoid this.. us carriers dont. one can only hope that the controllers/dispatchers of tomorrow will have clear job descriptions,duties,responsibilities
,good salaries for the skills and proper working hours

for the record i have done 12-10-8 hour shifts varied over 7-5-8
days and for 20 years lost a large part of my family growing up

[FEBA]

Regarding tenancy of Tracy Island, I'm going to leave this to the landlord Jeff tracy.
I agree wholeheartedly with what you say but to put your posting into context with the thread, there are no regulations at present limiting the number of hours that can be worked. I chose to offer up various shift patterns 8 12 and 12 and 10. The work force was mostly young so the 12 got the vote. Their choice and it saved me having to interview loads of wannabes and saved the company a few bob too.
The exciting part of what you say would be the imposition of working hours regulations upon operations staff by JAA / CAA. As you rightly point out the FAA limit the working day / night for an aircraft dispatcher to 10 hours. Most flag and domestic carriers work 8 with 2 hours for overtime contingencies. This is the way we should be going.
I am getting a little long in the tooth now and the thought of having to work a twelve hour night fills me with dread, but that's an age problem. Your right though, it's not desirable from either view point.
Rgds
FEBA

[boredcounter]

Here is one for you,

I work alone at night, 2200-0530.

I have a panic lanyard I have no faith in...........set off so many times the Police ignored it. It has been reset, but if I use it, the Police have to break in, and then find me.....in a three story office block, if I believe they would turn up. I have no medical check to ensure my fitness to work unsupervised at night. I do however have a security guard, on mobile patrol, who I might see @ 2000 and 0500.

For the best, most economical way to cover H24 shifts (4 on 4 off 12's) my company rejected 1 HR contact calls the security provider because of the cost...............GBP50.00 per week......

The hours are not the issue to me, Look after me as an asset. I cost twice as much to cover after a ancident at work.



Bored

[FEBA]

The hours are not the issue to me
The hours are the issue of this thread not Securicors ability to look after you
FEBA

[boredcounter]

"With crew duty hours strictly limited, is there any restriction for ops on the hours they work, rest allowed and whether they are allowed to work alone on nights?"

The last part of the question leads me to believe more is being asked. Welfare in my eyes is to be read as duty of care.

As the quoted question also asks, are you allowed to work alone at night.

[acmi48]

for my info what is the average ops salary in the uk these days.i moved to desk and altho initially i missed the days off..shift premiums etc i got out of the shift rat race
i am wondering how many battle on to keep the £ coming in

pilots work on the same..some 50 plus captains are excellent and some need to be straight jacketed

the UK is a little behind in recognizing the value of the man on the ground,because the man in the air feels he needs to take on the added burden of all responsability.. until something goes badly wrong ??

it is my opinion that a problem shared is a problem solved

as for the working hours 8 hours max .. and a 40 hour week with 30 mins per block of 8 paid for as a rest..

[Little Blue]

I had my first experience of the Working time directive, this week.
One of the night shift called in sick whilst I was working days (8-8)
No-one could cover, and as it was now 1600, I offered to go home and return to cover the shift on o/t.
My manager told me that the only way I could do the shift was by sending an e-mail, offering to do the shift, as I couldn't be asked to do it. Interesting....!
How will this work for calling out staff for o/t, on the day?:confused:

[HZ123]

Come on now staff we are going to have to show a bit more commitment. Although the EU regs are kicking in slowly but surely I feel quite sure that any direct effect to workers such as we represent will not be to our advantage. To recruit more staff to reduce hours can only be made by reducing the existing wages which is exactly the focus of most of the LHR operators.