WSO commission

[thelizardking]

I have just been selected to start training as a WSO. Hooray!! but already i find myself feeling rather p'd off. I am only allowed to join on a 12 year commission thus screwing my plans of retiring on a full pension at 38 and playing golf. What are the chances that i will be able to change to a full permanent commission? i'm not really bothered if it is as a WSO but obviously i would prefer, or are they likely to get me out before they have to pay me thus saving themselves lots of moolah?

[Mach 2.2]

In two words.....Not brilliant I'm at Cranditz at the mo, and one of the last ever PC WSOs. The problem is essentially that it is a dying branch. No more Navs on the Helos, Bufoon coming in sometime, JSF etc....

That's not to say you won't get the PC. If you're good enough on your annual appraisal then you should probably stand a reasonable chance.

[Follow Me Through]

If my information is correct the WSO branch was only officially established earlier this year(1 Apr?). Here we are are talking about a dying branch!

IMHO the newly established 'branch' will be around for a long time. What is dying is the old navigator elements of those branches that have been lumped together to form WSO. So that while SH roles and backseat on FJ roles for navs are going the old ALM and AEO/AEOp roles have a rosy future.

Do a good job and I would be confident that the offer of a PC will follow.

[Mightycrewseven]

Are you on the same course as Big Bad Nev or Herr Schmit?

Is so.....:E :E :E

[Biggus]

Air Force Board stated policy is to go to a "pilot centric flying branch" by 2020. This means that by then they antcipate requiring only 100 WSOs, employed on the ISTAR fleet. Given that we have about 1200 WSOs at the moment it means that approx 1100 will have to go in the next 17 years.

Against those sort of odds I think you will have to be walking on water to get offered a PC as a WSO.

Follow me through is confusing the WSOp branch with the WSO. The WSOp role (old ALM, AEOp etc) is likely to be around for much longer, and in greater numbers, than the WSO. However, the WSOps are NCOs, with no chance of commissioning in their old jobs (ALM, Air Eng leaders on Sqns are about to change from Officers to NCOs). If you get a commission as a WSO YOU CHANGE JOBS. WSOs are not just commissioned WSOps, they do different jobs!

Anyway, as I said above I think you chances of a PC as a WSO are about zero!

[Shaka]

......and even if you do get a PC, complete 16 years of service and retire as a Wg Cdr, your pension at todays prices will be £15,530. I doubt that will be enough to get you a membership of some of the golf courses in England!!

Beers.

[FFP]

Just what I was thinking Shaks !!

I am wondering whether it's worth staying in that extra 6 years for the pension or leaving at 32 to get seniority with the airlines . .. . . hmmmm

Though to be honest a day out of uniform is a day wasted at the moment :)

[M134]

Biggus

FMT is correct. The WSO cadre will is, and will continue to be made up of ex Navs and ex WSops. Granted their will not be many of them and you will need to be good to stay on. I can't remember the exact numbers but they are something like 150-200 WSO flying post left (and continuing) around 2020, mostly on the Kipper fleet.

TLK

If you really do want the PC now may be the time to start thinking about which fleet you want to aim for, not that you will have much of a say in it right now! Good luck where ever you go.

M134

[BEagle]

With the ME fleet having lost many of their most experienced pilots to the airlines, how do they anticipate retaining sufficient folk to become 'pilot centric'? At present, most of the ME people staying beyond IPP seem to be navigators and boarding school allowance subsidised brat-breeders.

[Airbedane]

Hey Beags, do I sense a litle cynicism creeping in now that you've seen the light and departed the fix..........?

My computer crashed big-time and I lost my address book and inbox et. Would you send me an e-mail so I can update my new box.

I tried to send this by private message, but your inbox is full!

A.

[BEagle]

Cynical? Moi......:E??

Inbox mucked-out, will e-mail!

[Biggus]

M134

I believe that I was correct in saying that FMT was in error in predicting a rosy future for WSOs. He stated that the old ALM and AEOps had a rosy future, which they do, BUT THEY ARE THE NEW WSOp BRANCH - not WSO.

What I was attempting to do is seperate the WSO from the WSOp, one is not simply a commisioned version of the other in the way we had commissioned Loadies, Air Engs etc. There is a distinct change in role. While the WSO branch does have a future it is limited and by no means "rosy" as I tried to show in terms of the numbers invovled.

WSOp = old Loadie, AEOp, signaller
WSO = old nav (and very small numbers of AEOs)

So a WSOp (ALM) getting a commission as a WSO is becoming a nav, not a commissioned ALM!!!

Do I know what I am talking about? I would like to think so, I am currently a serving Nav (not WSO) on a multi engine fleet with NCO aircrew facing change to WSOp status, and commissioned Air Engs etc being taken off flying duties and found "rewarding" ground jobs so their sections can be run by masters in future!

My point to thelizardking was that WSO is going to be a rapidly shrinking branch in future years (that is stated RAF policy) and his future in the branch, in terms of a PC, is less than "rosy" unless he turns out to be very, very good. I stand by that!

Nuff said!!

[M134]

Biggus

Some hope is better than no hope of a PC. Which, as you quite rightly piont out, is the chance of NCA ALM and Eng have.

[c130 alm]

My concern is that due to the fact that there was once a think called time served promotion where you recieved your rank after completing a set number of years, that I look round at some of the uninterested Masters who in the current system wouldnt make it past Flight Sergeant, and worry that they could eventually be running the sections. Back to the days of Masters Mafia where only they get the good jobs and good routes.

Fingers crossed that this doesnt happen.

[thelizardking]

mmmmmm, i guess i will just have to wait and see. Hopefully they will find some use for the hundreds of WSO's/ Navs who are still willing and eager. I still am unsure as to whether they try and find jobs for us to do after the 12 years. I will just have to do the best damn job of pointing at places and shouting that way that i can!!!!!

[Yeller_Gait]

Lizard,

If you stay till anywhere near the 12 year point, and are in any way competent at your chosen profession, there should be no problem in you getting signed on to 22 years and your initial pension point (IPP). Certainly that is the case today, there is a major recruitment and retention problem in the NCA branches.

What you may need to consider, as other threads on here have already discussed, are the impending changes to pension terms, both MOD and government rules. At the moment the new changes are about as clear as mud ... but everyone knows that after the changes you will not be better off !!!!

As for

QUOTE " Hopefully they will find some use for the hundreds of WSO's/ Navs who are still willing and eager" UNQUOTE

try measuring that in the tens rather than hundreds. Any good ones will already have jumped ship and made another career away from the RAF. (IMHO)

[Arctic Tern]

Boys Boys Boys, calm down. Of course there's a future for you as a WSO. Here's the recipe for success:
Get yourself qualified across a broad spectrum of ac type (rotary and fixed). Do a degree in your spare time. Get a professionally recognised qual like Aerosystems. Do an Exchange Tour. Get your ground tour out of the way. Fill out your portfolio with good civilian type experience.......
Then wait to be told you've got to return to HMP Kinloss or there's no future for you in the RAF.

Where's that 3rd and 4th trance of redundances? No fear of that, PMA couldn't cope with the number of applications.

That Postman's job vacancy in an English village is looking more and more attractive. At least I wouldn't have to drink Scottish ale, look at girls with ginger hair and freckles, watch dreadful football matches involving Celtic and Rangers, read biased newspapers that don't have a proper page three, listen to how wonderful Gregor Townsend is (wouldn't get a game in the England team) and eat stovies.

Arctic