QF SELECTS A321s for "SKIMPY"!!

[E.P.]

Senior excutive Alan Joyce, heading the formation of QFs extra low budget off-shoot, has inadvertently revealed a deal with Airbus is on the table. 35 new Airbus A321s (stretched 320s) are on offer as a result of the new connections and rapport established between QF and Airbus by a former AN pilot manager now with QF.

The new extra low cost airline, code named "Skimpy", is seen as an excellent opportunity to train up crews for the 330s and 380s.

Many experienced Airbus crews are current and available and the larger and mostly superior A321s have a huge passenger appeal and lower operating costs (plus container cargo capability, Cross Crew Qualification with the A330s/ A380 Etc, Etc..) when compared with the 737. A new Simulator is part of the deal, however the former AN A320 sim/training CBT is still available for initial training. QF already employs three former AN Airbus Management/check pilots in its A330 program.

The aircraft can also be utilized as freighters, to tap into the lucrative Asia Pacific freight market and the Asia Pacific International leisure destinations. "Fresh" indeed!!

Mr Joyce has basically adopted the VB blueprint, where pilots will be required to pay for their own endorsement, saving thousands in start up costs. However, somewhat different to QF where very inexperienced pilots or cadets are recruited as SOs and VB where jet experience is not required, "Skimpy" will require experienced airline jet pilots. Cabin crew/ground staff recuitment will be "personality" based, in an attempt to improve QFs sad passenger service record.

Mr Joyce expects many staff from a former Airline, renowned for Safety and excellent passenger service, to apply.

The new airline is expected to "take-off" in March 2004.

[Al E. Vator]

Cruel and silly.

[slice]

Care to explain Al??

Do you mean total BS?:E

[GT-R]

Gee wadda wanka

[E.P.]

Leasing and other bits and pieces.

SIA wants to join the party down under and make some money.

VB has said no, so who do you turn to?

"Al" et al,

really snappy replies there kids. Which part doesn't fit your immensely knowledgable airline aviation forecast??

GT-R

Gee let me guess, err, um........ you're young, stupid and inexperienced, oh and Daddy bought you a nice 737 endorsement. Kooool!!

[Taildragger67]

(This'll get 'em going... )

EP -

You mention 'passenger appeal'.

The only time I've heard 'Airbus', 'passenger' and 'appeal' in the same sentence is when I hear punters 'appealing' to the airline not to be put on a Scarebus.

You say A321s are 'superior' - to what, exactly?

If it ain't a Boeing, I ain't going...

[E.P.]

You would rather reside in the UK than OZ and fly on (as a consultant) a 737 than an A321...............

"Jen-nee an me arr juss like pees'n'karots..."

Well thank you Forest. Life really is like a box of chocolates.:)

[AIRWAY]

What's wrong with the Airbuses?

[fruitloop]

Whats right with them ??(beside price)

[blueloo]

I thought Airbuses were supposedly a Piece of S....

Qf ones especially, but maybe not Airbus's fault - more someone who got paid a big bonus's fault.....

things like:
*wrong config - not enough galley space for international catering
*floors too weak, requiring structural mods for business seats
*overhead bins to small - weak, and break frequently
*crappy middle seat in business class
*side seats angle inwards and pax cop trollies in legs

also - frequent (similar to) dutch roll/ oscillations - during flight and taxi - due to odd airbus flight regime/aerodynamics - causes people in arse end to feel sick and gives front end of plane (premium pax area) a rough ride
- fleet commonality (via flight computers giving same feel across types) doesnt really work to well.
-metals are laminated together, not riveted (like boeing) - causes moisture between laminates and results in corrosion.



And lastly - they are the are simply cheap and nasty Hyundai's of the sky. You get what you pay for.

[ur2]

Hey notice how it is only the pilots who have never flown Airbus who bag em. Ask a pilot who has loads of experience on both Airbus and Boeing which is the better consept.
Oh and ask boeing why they are in a pannic about their loss of market share to Airbus.

[tobzalp]

Words that you live by obviously.

[ur2]

But seriously, what on earth are you on about BIK ?:ooh:

[Ralph the Bong]

If what you say is correct, EP, it sounds like a winning idea. A 321s are very cost effective to purchase/lease and operate, much more so than Boeings of similar size. The type is quite prolific in Asia and in Europe. AN had options on 10 A 321s at one stage but converted these into firm orders for the 320.

[E.P.]

I understand Mr Joyce will have something to say on the matter shortly.:ok:

Blueloo

You and GT-R should get together. Just imagine the awesomely powerful and intelligent conversations you could indulge in!! :\

[blueloo]

E.P. - whats this - "Dirty Nappies at 5 paces" - please try to avoid the personal attacks, after all this is just a rumour network. Your entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to my rumour-mongering.

Let me draw you to what BIK said: As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.

[cunninglinguist]

You gotta admit, it makes sense.
Buy a heap of new Boeings, train everyone up on them, then go out and get a heap of new Airbuses and go into competition with yourself:ok:
I mean, really, what is wrong with you cynics:=

[vortsa]

Here we go again, ring any bells people? An Australian Airline with a management hosting a sprinkling of Kiwi's, a CEO who advocates breaking the company model into smaller groups ( silos), each of these groups being financially reponsible for their own profits and costs, a list of different A/C types longer than your arm ( including the cheaper Airbus ) I just hope they learnt something from the mistakes made in the past, interesting times ahead.

[The_Equaliser]

Yeah, yeah. AO was also going to usher in the new era whereby QF pilots would take it in the shorts and all you lo cost vandals would take their jobs! As stated elsewhere the deal is done. Maybe we are not as expensive or as inflexible as some think.

[ExcessData]

vortsa, as far as i know Lufthansa and a few others managed to do something similar with quite a great degree of success. I'd say it all comes down to the way it's managed at the end of the day - time will tell in that department, but surely it's too early to write the idea off altogether simply because other carriers have cocked it up?

[Vmo248]

So if the Flying Rat /Koru deal don't happen, then is Rat gonna try shaggin Koru with Skimpy?!

QF's, A321's v NZ's, 737-300's/A320's v wotever the "Blue Virgin, Origin(ating) from the Pacific" decides to fly in/outta/thru NZ.

[Buster Hyman]

Care to put a link in to your "alleged" free press article Winst...err...I mean, E.P.???:hmm:

[Planned Root]

pilots will be required to pay for their own endorsement, saving thousands in start up costs. http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/pukey.gif

[blueloo]

E.P> sounds like you would fit right in with the conversation. Come join us - your obviously an intellectual giant.

[Buster Hyman]

Tried it BIK, but all that came up was a picture of TJ rolling in cash!!!:p

[E.P.]

Ok Blue hoo

Yak yak yak....It is "you're....", not "your obviously......." yak yak...

Now what are we to talk about? Your indepth knowledge of and experience on the Airbus perhaps? :\ :ok:

Bik

How many different aircraft types does QF run now?? Which types are capable of CCQ??

[Pete Conrad]

From the free press, that being The Singapore Straights Times, the only airline looking at flying A321's here is SIA. In fact, look a bit harder and one my find the free trade talks and open skies agenda SQ are working towards.Hint, Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet.

[blueloo]

E.P. - grow up. I couldn't give a rats arse about your spelling and grammatical ability. You spend more time moaning about others peoples replies than posting anything here of value.

No doubt you will reply with something of equal witty value to which I look forward to.

[Buster Hyman]

No link I see....JAW!:hmm:

[Pete Conrad]

What do you expect blue loo? the QF empire is soon to crumble when SQ come and start operations under open skies.

E.P. is just representative of a bunch of halfwits that are getting nervous as the good times are coming to an end for them.

Gee, I really do look forward to VB, SQ and REX teaming up.Might shut the majority of QF ******s up that haunt these boards shooting down everybody elses thoughts.

[Le Pilot]

There has been nothing in the Straits times about this and the persons who should know in SIA have said "huh?"

The website is www.straitstimes.com.sg. They have search.

SIA are too busy evaluating the new carrier in Thailand, watching the new competitor in Myamar and keeping the door open on another start up in India. No mention of A321s in Australia.

Link please.

[bitter balance]

Keep it up Pete, maybe if you mention the mythical VB, SQ & REX tie up in every post it might just happen. Surely you have proposed it at the Star Alliance conferences. Why won't they implement your proposal?

[HGW]

My prediction:

QF buy Airbus as a fleet for their budget airline so they can utillise the ex AN pilots still looking for work, make any existing QF pilots have to apply and use VB model for self funded endorsement, recruitment from GA ranks. It also instantly creates an actual difference between current mainly Boeing ops and Airbus ops. 717's can't carry the numbers as VB and QF have shown 737-800's are the ideal size.

All "Skimpy" staff will be on a new (lower rate) single union endorsed EBA. All ground staff will be employed by "Skimpy" as a separate entity with a mix of contractors and permanent staff. Any existing QF staff who want to work for Skimpy will have to apply along with everyone else off the street and if successful will have to leave QF.

QF domestic operations will slowly wind down to eventually out of existance with only skimpy left competing against VB on all VB routes, Eastern on regionals against Rex and revamped QF full service be available on International Ops only as it used to be.

Finally, Skimpy will spread it's wings around the Pacific to compete against Pacific Blue. The result will be like competing against like or model against model. QF Int will compete against Virgin Atlantic, Emirates, etc.

In the end it is QF vs AN all over again only the models and names have changed. What do you all think?. Sound feasible.
I would bet on this one !! :ok:

[ExcessData]

Interesting post, HGW. But QF still seem to think there's a fairly strong market for full service/premium domestic still - at least on trunk routes. Where does this fit in?

ED

[Gnadenburg]

HGW

In reference of the pilot source for Skimpy consider the following.

How many years of non-currency on 320 equipment would dictate a requirment for a new endorsement?

How many former 320 pilots looking for work? Not many I don't think or hope.

Outside of QF, Dragonair is the employer of the highest number of exAN 320 pilots. Not many would leave that company for a QF subsidary I can assure. Emirates similar. Virgin Blue has a handful who are all Captains and I don't think they would leave.

Silkair might be a good source. The Singaporians have proven to be the Raping White Knights of the industry. Not my words either!

I don't think the exAN 320 pilots is much of a card to play. Could be wrong, missing an AFL season could bring anyone home I suppose.

[blat]

don't you mean yellow? :8

[Suffering Sucataash]

Pete Conrad,

Please mind whom you are calling names.

I'm don't think you would call me names to my face or wish my family the pain others are suffering in these uncertain times.

Just as I work for a particular company (Qantas) doesn't by itself make me an ass!




:} :} :}

[Pete Conrad]

Twas a good wind up though, never ceases to get you tools from biting!!

[Australia2]

Mr Conrad,

Some big generalisations there, be careful who you call a tool.

Something about a pot and a kettle.

[Cactus Jack]

This whole thread is a complete joke. HGW clearly has no idea but thinks a wind up may soothe his ego. 'Ol Pete there is just being obnoxious. And everybody else is just getting wound up.

Jeez, whatever the new QF low cost carrier looks like in the future - I can assure all of you that no-one bar the very highest in the QF executive know about it. If it happens.

And they most definately aren't going to let you circus clowns in on the act. Nor will they design it around ex ansett airbus pilots for christ sake.

Grow up the lot o' yez.

BTW, the Straights Times is honest accurate reporting? Good lord - it is censorship directly from the book of Joe Stalin!

[Dan Kelly]

Didn't BA start up a low cost subsidiary to compete with other British and European low cost airlines, only to steal passenger traffic from itself onto a lower yield offshoot? :hmm:

[Hostie Humper]

Back to the topic for a minute, mates who fly the A321 in Asia reckon it's a dog of an airplane compared to the 320.

Can anyone who has flown the 321 confirm this?

[Whiskery]

SQ won't be starting up anything in Australia - they haven't got the aggetts and QF will be around for a loooong time yet.

Gnadenburg, will you be at the game Saturday night ? Be a shame to miss watching the Mighty Pies go straight into the Prelim. Final. I'll givem a cheer from you when they run out and an extra few decibals of "Good Old Collingwood Forever":ok:

[blueloo]

Nothings changed. My comment still stands. Keep trying. :}

[Gnadenburg]

Too cruel Whiskery. My first AFL season abroad.

How's Bucks? When I played footy with him in youth I never noticed him get a hard ball-anything changed?

And Joffa? Another toothless Collingwood smile?

Personally, my season is over, looking forward to the draft.

Agree, SQ has a distinct lack of expertise and I feel they will go the easy route with political help.

[Cactus Jack]

One thing I am quite definite about EP? Your foolishness. Grow up.

[E.P.]

Foolishness?? Man I only need to re-read your first post. :ugh:

BTW Alan Joyce is in charge of project "Skimpy" and you are saying he "......knows nothing about it. If it happens"?? :uhoh:

[Titan Driver]

Folks I can confirm that all is true what is said on this thread. However Skimpy are also using A319 for the shorter sectors. Training is going well and here is an Mpeg of one graduate captain on his final check in europe.

A classic!

http://www.tbm.tudelft.nl/webstud/9202359/landing.mpg

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Holy cr@p!!

When I viewed that the first time I thought...ahhh that must be a large scale model!!!

It ain't!

Eye watering..

[ex-knuck]

The A321 is a great a/c, from the FCOM ISA +20 at MTOW it will reach FL310, depending on the airline config anything from 178 to 220 pax at 3t/hr. The times that I have travelled on the B767/B744 out of Asia they would never be near MTOW but seem to spend a lot of time at low levels on a 9hr trip to OZ, and by the way a QF B767-200 only carries 202 pax burning a lot more fuel.

[E.P.]

Geez Boyz'n'gals.

Who brought this to you months ago????????:E

Clive et al,

Just where did Mr Thomas get his "exclusive"?

If you read my opening post, I think there could be a case of copyright infringment. :suspect:

[E.P.]

Okay, time for another "exclusive".

Experienced Airbus guys who meet the "exacting" standards of QF recruitment, (you know maths, english, physics and box folding) or who have been through the process in the past (and were either rejected or didn't take the job) are receiving letters inviting them to renew their interest..............

Good to see the ex-Ansett Flight-Ops pilots (in QF) pushing the barrow for their former work mates.

IMHO I think QF should be forced into recruiting more ex-An drivers, after all the shady backroom deals The Minister for QF Anderson and Qantas/ airforce one Howard have done, to aid QFs grand plan of "south of the equator domination".

Well well well, smart move. :rolleyes:

[Waste Gate]

Good to see the ex-Ansett Flight-Ops pilots (in QF) pushing the barrow for their former work mates.

:8 :8

Yeah right E.P - all 1 of them!!! bwah bwah bwah bwah!!

[E.P.]

Strange, I count at least six.........

Al.E.Vator, GT-R, Blue loo, Cactus Jack, et al...................

Just re-read your "intelligent comments" in light of Qantas' new fleet choice.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :bored: :bored: :ok:

[HGW]

I know it was a long time ago but I just had to boost my ego as 'Cactus Jack' says in his reply.

I should have put money on this prediction. A320, separate entity, separate ground handler (Express GH), the obvious downsize of QF domestic.

My next prediction is Air New Zealand help Pacific Blue fly the Tasman and Emirates and Singapore buy shares in Virgin Blue.

Oh damn, has it already happened. :ok:

[E.P.]

You heard it first here then and again now. Pornstar is to "inherit" the 330s as stage two of the grand plan. :oh:

But where will they fly to I hear you ask? Go west you man, (but east first!) Cheeky VB will have competition to the US. :ok:

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Interesting there E.P.

Hard to believe though because of the Q/A list guys already flying the bus domestically and shortly, internationally. Somehow I doubt they will take kindly be bequeathed to Jetstar.

Would also require a massive backflip by QF.

Besides, they already have their all economy carrier in AA. Sorry, giving A330's to Jetstar just doesn't make sense.

However, given the almost total accuracy of your initial post, you have me intrigued....

[rescue 1]

Interesting thought! VB are good at shaking trees, the US is a long way to go without a movie. Not so sure how the model would work.

I would have guessed that this is AA territory.

[Wonderworld]

Version I have heard is 332's to AO.

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

Makes more sense than Jetstar...

[Ramboflyer 1]

Of course the 330s will go, the Pilots will go to the 380, easily fixed .
:D

[boocs]

Ran into a DragonAir Manager a few weeks ago in the lift (more than a few few weeks ago actually) who said "Have you heard that we have started a new training school here for DragonAir?" to which I naively replied "No............."

"Yes it's called JetStar......"

Interpret this as you may.

[VR-HFX]

Yep

The Regal Airport bar is heavily populated with Jetsar guys...mainly LAMES doing the Dragon shuffle from what I can workout.

And to add kero to the fire...the Bus is cheap and nasty. Cheap to buy but costs an arm and a leg to maintain in the medium term. Put the flex inboard and you scare the paying punters. Then we have the extra sound effects this time of year when the ice maker (a/c system) goes into action at Vr.

FWIW, I choose not travel on them as pax if I can avoid it.

And the big ones won't do what they're meant to. NYC NYC in the 346...all the systems have to be run two hours before departure by extra engineering manpower to make sure the damn thing will actually go.

[AirNoServicesAustralia]

VR-HFX, I guess it's personal opinion, but just travelled Dubai-NYC and back again with Emirates, and the A340-500 was the most comfortable aircraft I have ever travelled in. The seats were big and very comfy, their was very little visible flexing of the interior on take off and landing, and as a side note, the in flight entertainment was amazing. I mean, how good is it when you have over 150 movies to choose from and watch them and pause them and fast forward them at your leisure, absolutely fantastic. Especially considering I was flying economy.

[VR-HFX]

ANSA

Can't fault your logic as a pax on a brand new ac. I think it is called tripping the light fanplastic.

All I can say is that the Bus fleet we have can't compete with the 777/744 on reliability and airframe life . Cheap to buy but expensive over the long haul with no re-sale value. Amazing how many penny-wise pound foolish people thre are in the industry.

[Chris Higgins]

I flew ATR-42s and 72s and they basically fell apart. The aircraft were definitely "cheap". The parts became very expensive, I think, to support the giveaway prices at point of sale.

Everything that was made of plastic looked like crap in only a few years, which was basically, most of the aircraft.

[E.P.]

AAA-HEM. The old E.P. was months ahead again, eh! :}