I hate Farnsworth Lanterns.

[bigmuzb]

G'day,

First time poster, long time reader.

Just failed (not officially, opthalmologist told me) my Farnsworth test. I am (was) starting flying toward a PPL VFR only for private flying. I own a business which takes most of my time so I don't need a career in flying.

I have top 5th percentile vision for my age (29) and excellent peripheral vision. Functionally, I can think of only two occasions in my life where I have made a mistake in identifying colours- certainly never red and green; once it was dark grey and maroon (in a dark carpark), and once between blue and purple (dark cupboard).

I believe I have a Deuteranomaly. (is that how you say it?), which seems to be basically a problem with passing tests.

What bugs me the most is this: If I failed a knowledge exam then I could study more and fix the problem. If it was a matter of needing some equipment to fix a problem I could handle it. But for this damn colour vision test I can't do anything; and, ITS NOT MY FAULT!!

I am just trying to get it off my chest in a (?!) sympathetic place.


As far as the actual test goes, I guess that I knew there was no way I could have passed based on the fact that I guessed about half of the time, and I found that if I paused while looking at the lights they would appear to be whatever colour I wanted them to be. Which is cute. But not much bloody use!!

If anyone could offer words of encouragement or suggestions that would be great. I believe that I may have the option of travelling to Melbourne to undergo practical testing if CASA agrees. Has anyone had any experience with this?

I have always loved flying, but it really sunk in how much it means to me after the test.

Thanks for listening.....


BigMuz :{

[vee1-rotate]

Colour blind eh? Join the club...

I've been to the Eye College place here in Melbourne following recommendation from CASA after I failed the ishihara test when I went for my Class 2. Managed to stuff up pretty much all the tests they gave me (which mind you was fairly informal) including the Farnsworth. I later found out the conditions I did the test under were pretty poor, in that you are meant to be given a bit of time to adjust to the dark before u start the test, whereas the young girl threw me pretty much straight into it.

Testing for colour blindness is an absolute crock of s!%# I have found out. Maybe just my frustation at having the condition, but it seems everywhere you go someone has a different answer. Some say this, others that.

There is a man in Geelong here in Victoria who apparently has been pursuing the colour blindness issue for a while. His name is Arther Pape. I haven't been in contact with him but am going to be in the near future.

Sorry my reply hasnt been of much help really but I just thought I'd fill you in on my, similar situation.

Let me know of any progress you make.

- V1

[bigmuzb]

Thanks V1

I am rereading all of the online stuff that I have found. There may be some intersting stuff here.

It is pretty bloody frustrating, but I will keep my chin up, and move forward..

I had the same experience with poor lighting lighting in the office, and the fact that the ocular pressure testing involved the doc giving me anasthetic eye drops about twenty minutes before the farnsworth. My eyes were watering like crazy- But, realistically, I probably had no chance of passing even under ideal conditions. I don't have a problem with failing the test, just with being unable to fly due to a functionally irrelevant defect.



Cheers

http://www.aopa.com.au/aviation/colourvision.html
http://members.aol.com/nocolorvsn/color.htm
http://www.casa.gov.au/manuals/regulate/dame/080r0201.pdf
http://www.toledo-bend.com/colorblind/index.html

[jtr]

Check your personal messages

[Crash & Burn]

bigmuzb -

When I started flying I got told I could only ever get a CPL with day operations only on it.

After a fair bit of investigation and talking to others I found I could then get a CPL for night and day operations but only valid in Australia airspace.

After some great help from others such as Dr Arthur Pape it then possible to get an ATPL valid in Australian airspace only.

Then, after the test vee1-rotate mentions (in Melbourne) I was able to get an unrestricted ATPL which I'm now lucky enough to be able to use.

I also have Deuteranomaly type colour deficiency so don't give up - if you've only done the farnsworth you've still got a few options up your sleve!

Private message me for more info if you like.

Cheers

C B

[Islander Jock]

bigmuzb,

Even though you failed the Ishihara and Farnsworth, you should still be able to obtain a Class 1 medical but without jumping through a few of the additional hoops mentioned above, it will be endorsed valid up to CPL and Australian airspace only. Well that's what mine says anyway. When I started flying my medical was pvt, day VFR only but a quick call to CASA and they re-issued my medical which allows me to do anything I am likely to want to do. Only down side is that if I go overseas I cannot fly on my oz medical and many countries except perhaps USA and Canada still have an anal retentive attitude wrt the colour perception standard.

I still don't believe there is anything on those pages with coloured dots :} It's all a conspiracy.

A friend of mine also has Deuteranomaly and is currently working in the UK (not flying). But he does have a JAA medical which allows him to fly IFR but only during daylight hours. So other countries are slowly coming around. :ok:

The regs have only changed in Australia in the past 7 or 8 years and now there is a host of colour defective pilots flying everything from SE trainers to heavy jets. Lo and behold - no one is crashing into runways or other aircraft.

[bigmuzb]

Thanks guys.

Jock, I am hoping that the day vfr works out for me. Its all that I want and need to satisfy my urges..

Re the coloured dots; my doctor had to call in his secretary to look and laugh at me ! (All in good fun though!)

The frustration of looking at those bloody lights and seeing the same blurry colour on both of them is just frustrating beyond belief. I said to the tester " umm, white over green, but thats just a guess" on about six of the pairs. Red over Red was really easy for me, as was green and red, but green and the yellowy white was ridiculous.

But there you go..

I feel a lot better having received so much support, and not one post to say "I am glad that you dangerous colour blind freaks aren't sharing the same sky as me".

It feels a bit like a hoop that some of us have to jump through before we can do what we will ultimately be allowed to do anyway!!

I guess I am not the only one in the world who feels that it is a bitch!

Cheers
Muz

[bigmuzb]

Sorry that I missed seeing your post C&B.

That sounds good.

Glad to hear that you overcame this hurdle. I am getting the feeling now that this is something that I will be able to deal with and move forward with the really hard part- financing my flying!!


I can't believe how hard it is to get a straight answer on any of this stuff- Just about everything else is easy to look up or research. I believe that Dr Pape has done an unbelievable amount of work and for that I will be forever grateful. However, why he has had to spend so much time and money on something that seems to be a technicality is beyond me.

Colour defectives of the world unite!!!


Cheers
Murray

[snarek]

Guys

Arthur Pape, while an AOPA Director and afterwards worked this to death.

Essentially colour blindness isn't the hurdle it first appears to be, but there are technicalities. If you can't pass the isishara (spelling?) cards then you get a go at the lanterns. If you can't pass the lanterns then ops by day only, unless there are other reasons for not passing (other than CB).

Call the office. We have a new researcher who can dig through the files and work out where you stand.

AK

[Buck Rogers]

You will be ok Big ....as I have a CPL with all the colour failures to boot . I am told that I can not get ATPL ,,,, well that suits me fine

[jerrry]

Sounds all too farmiliar.
Are we talking Colour Blindness or Colour Deficiency?
Blindness is seeing Black & White.
Deficiency is seeing colours but having trouble with shades of similar colours, ie red green.

I was told you'll never get to the airlines.
Ten years later after appealing through Admin appeals tribunal and a multitude of tests I was granted eligbility for ATPL.

Arthur Pape is certainly a valued member of flying and his pursuits for the colour testing for us affected.

Stick with it.

[Ovation]

Don't give up hope just yet!

The conditions under which the test is taken can have an effect on the result, so all is not lost. I was told when I was 15 I had red/green color deficiency and gave up on my dream to be an airline pilot. About 10 years later they relaxed the rules allowing color defectives to fly by day with radio, so I then decided to learn to fly.

I failed the confetti test for my student licence and then failed the lantern, and had the usual restrictions placed on my licence.

The first lantern test was in Adelaide in 1977 in a general office with all kind of stray lighting and also I'd had a few ales the night before.

The second was in 1980 at the head office in Melbourne under controlled conditions. I was told there was a "practice run" and then the test. I did the practice run and the Examiner said "that's it - we don't need to go any further". I thought I'd failed miserably but he said if you identify all correctly on the practice run you've passed. I must be one of the few that have had the restriction lifted because I did'nt give up hope.

[Islander Jock]

If you can't pass the lanterns then ops by day only, unless there are other reasons for not passing (other than CB).
Snarek, are you sure about this. My understanding is that a pass on the lanterns will not impose any restrictions on your medical. If you fail the lantern, it will be endorsed Australian airspace only. As per my situation.

[snarek]

Islander

I am no expert. My understanding is that if you fail the cards you can go for the lanterns. But there are some people who can pass cards anbd fail lanterns (I don't undertsand why).

Edit ... updated.

Go look here. Lots of stuff from Dr Pape.

AK

http://www.aopa.com.au/aviation/colourvision.html

[GREG CLARK1]

THIS MESSAGE ORIGINALLY WRITTEN NOV 02.

YOU SHOULD WRITE TO CASA MEDICAL BRANCH REQUESTING
TO DO A ‘SIGNAL LIGHT GUN TEST’.
THE TEST IS NOT WIDELY ADVERTISED, IF AT ALL, BY CASA.
I FOUND OUT ABOUT IT THROUGH THE GRAPEVINE WHEN A FRIEND DID
IT A FEW MONTHS BEFORE MINE. THE TEST WILL NOT WORK IT OUT FOR EVERYBODY,
DEPENDS ON THE DEGREE OF COLOUR BLINDNESS. I AM A DEUTERNONE (GREEN
DEFICIENT) AND HAD A CLASS1 WHICH WAS RESTRICTED UP TO CPL FOR THE NIGHT
FLYING. AS RESULT OF DOING THE TEST I NOW HAVE A FULL CLASS1 MEDICAL WITH NO
RESTRICTIONS AND CAN HOLD AN ATPL.
AFTER WRITING THE LETTER TO MEDICAL BRANCH THEY WILL WRITE
BACK TELLING YOU TO CONTACT A LOCAL FOI DIRECTLY TO MAKE ARRANGEMENTS TO DO
THE TEST. THE TEST IS DONE AT A TOWER AIRPORT WITH THE FOI USUALLY IN THE
EARLY EVENING. A PREARRANGED LIGHT SEQUENCE IS DONE FROM THE LIGHT GUN IN
THE TOWER (2 SETS OF 10 LIGHTS, EACH SET IS DONE FROM A DIFFERENT DISTANCE -
CAN’T REMEMBER THE DISTANCE - SORRY!) AND REQUIRES A 100% PASS, I.E. EVERY
LIGHT CORRRECTLY IDENTIFIED. THE LIGHTS ARE OF COURSE EITHER RED, GREEN OR
WHITE.
THE LETTER TELLS YOU THERE MAY BE A CHARGE FROM THE FOI FOR
THE TEST, IT DEPENDS ON THE FOI, MINE WAS DONE NO CHARGE WITH ANOTHER GUY ON
THE SAME NIGHT.
I BELIEVE THERE IS ALSO A ‘PRACTICAL LANTERN TEST’ (HAS TO
BE DONE IN MELBOURNE) IF NOT ABLE TO PASS THE SIGNAL LIGHT GUN TEST.
I DID ALL THE OPTHALMOLOGY STUFF QUITE SOME TIME AGO TO GET
THE DISPENSATION UP TO CPL SO COULD APPLY TO DO THE SIGNAL LIGHT GUN TEST
STRAIGHT AWAY. I DON’T KNOW IF YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH ALL THAT FIRST OR NOT.
I WENT THROUGH THE PROCESS ABOUT 18 MONTHS AGO.



So as already stated by others don't give up hope!!!

[bigmuzb]

Guys, your support is amazing.

Thanks.

I will now sum up my understanding of the 'system'..

1: Dame performs screening test using ishihara.
2: Failing this requires a more detailed test (Farnsworth)
3: This test can be analysed by opthalmologist and Casa to determine what defect you have, and therefore its relevance to your intended flying activities.
4: Casa is informed of your results directly by the opthalmologist.
5: Dame discusses results of tests with Casa.
6: Casa may then allow applicant to undergo further testing of a practical nature; either at Melbourne (Uni?), or at a local tower field.
7: These tests assess practical determination of red, green, white in a real world (!) situation.
8: Flexibility exists for Casa to issue restricted, unrestricted, day only or day vfr australia only licences. (May I take credit for using Casa and flexible in the same sentence...?!!)
9: A perfect pass of the practical test may lead to the issuing of an unrestricted licence, possibly up to ATPL.


Anyone have any comments on this?

I think that this thread may become the de facto home of information regarding colour vision and Australian flying on pprune. When I searched pprune when initially starting my inquiries, I found a fairly disjointed collection of info. I think that my story is common, and for a newbie student pilot it can be very disheartening and hard to find information pertinent to their situation.

If there is anything that aviation needs in Australia surely it is more students therefore money therefore critical mass, if you get what I mean..

OK guys, thanks once again.

Murray

[Crash & Burn]

From memory (it's been almost 10 years since I did it!) the test done in Melbourne only consists of White and Red lights, similar to that on a PAPI installation.

This makes it more likely that people who have Deuteranomaly (green) type colour deficiency will pass this test.

When I did the test the guy seemed to be mainly checking that I could differentiate between the two light types (red and white) and not necessarily have to name their colours.