How Many Are Leaving ?

[Nogbad the Bad]

OK...........I am still left to wonder why NATS is so blase about staffing numbers.

Firm departures to Canada, from what I have gleaned so far, are :

Two from MACC is September, two from TC, one imminent, one in December-ish.......

Any more ?

[bagpuss lives]

Four more from MACC currently going through the recruitment process apparently.

[250 kts]

One from LACC next week.

[1261]

We had a chap from the Royal Australian Air Force in to visit the other day - guess where he's headed!

[ShamRoc]

Well, according to an article in the Sunday Telegraph yesterday,
".. the air traffic controller could become redundant by 2020"!
Thats all right then, no problem with controllers leaving and it will take care of the shortage!

[360BakTrak]

I've heard that apparently NATS have 'had words' with NavCanada and negotiated a 'ban' on any more NATS controllers being accepted!
Anyone heard a similar rumour?:(

[tobzalp]

From the sounds of things NATS should be negotiating with the staff to stay. ppl do not leave in droves for no reason.

[ex-EGLL]

360BT et al

I have just spoken with the "OFF SHORE" recruitment person, she has also heard the "rumours", but a check at the VP level says that NATS have not approached NAV CANADA on this issue, and it is recruitment as normal.

ex-egll

[Jerricho]

TC.............one imminent and one Decemberish?

Care to expand?

[nats]

One just left ScACC,starting in Oct at Toronto.

[Nogbad the Bad]

I've heard that apparently NATS have 'had words' with NavCanada and negotiated a 'ban' on any more NATS controllers being accepted!

Could this be illegal ? Any Union person care to comment ??

Sorry Jerricho, I haven't got a big enough belt ;) ......however, there may well be more on their merry way.

Watch this space, I s'pose !

[cossack]

However many there end up being, they will, as I have, be made very welcome! The more the merrier!
I don't regret it one bit and I wish I'd done it sooner!:ok:
As for total numbers, the only person who could know that is ex-EGLL's colleague in recruitment. Whatever that number turns out to be, its a pretty good return on what amounts to word-of-mouth advertising.

[Jerricho]

Sorry Nogbad, I should have made myself a little clearer. I wasn't casting dispersions on you girth *grin*. Well, aside from what you read on the toilet walls.

I know of 2, but was trying to check the time scales to see if there were more.. There is another going in Feb/March (I should know.....it's me!). But I believe somebody was over there and got stuck in the power loss problem. Although, they have always advertised the fact they are interested. There has been some applicants from non-NATS ATCOs as well. I know of one who starts in October.

Also, I had heard the rumour of the cesation of NATS guys and gals being taken. I would hate to get involved in the legalities of anybody not being given an interview because of who they worked for. And anyway (it's a big call as well), what would be stopping anybody from resigining from NATS then going through the process?

[Nogbad the Bad]

*Tightening the old belt*

Hehe Jerrico.....first off, bl**dy good luck to you (and to the others who are going).

The one I know for definite is leaving in December for Toronto......you might be the other to whom I was referring, however, there is at least one more whom I believe is more than interested in going.

Now, where's mi grub........... :ok:

[Jerricho]

Thank's Nog, I appreciate the kind words. :ok:

It has been surprising the number of people who have expressed an interest in the whole process from TC alone (fear not.....I'll never tell!). And if even half the number of people rumoured to be going through with the interviews etc from all the units, Tobzalp makes an intersting point.

I'm sure everybody has their own personal reasons, and as many threads here have demonstrated, feelings of dispair in the units are very much alive and unwell. Whether it be LL Tower and their famous £15k 'retainer' that had more than one person jumping up and down, to arguments over costs of living near the prospective units and appropriate pay scales that may reflect this.

Or, dare I say it, pay scales reflective of the traffic complexity and workloads. The States and Canada seems to recognise this with their "Facility Premiums", which factor a premium/allowance on top of basic salary for the busier units. Thus, the FP for Toronto is more than Winnipeg or Edmonton. Bring this up in the NATS world and suggest that TC LL get paid more than TC SS and see what happens. Of course, when SS gets their 3 new runways, the premium would change.

WE (and I include myself in this) are all great at bitching and moaning about being paid more, but the attitude of "if someone else gets it, why shouldn't I" ruins it.

(Edited once again cause I can't spell)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

To those who are leaving, I wish them all the luck in the world and sincsrely hope that in 30 years time they can look back and think "I did the right thing".

I did it the other way round - worked abroad and then came back to the UK and spent 30+ years doing the Heathrow Bit.

I wouldn't have had it any other way - not a single second passed during my time in the "CAA/NATS" when I regretted it. I revelled in every second and, in my humble opinion, there was no better place on earth to practice my chosen profession.

It's a case of whatever turns you on I guess......

[Nogbad the Bad]

Coooooooo Bren.......you must have worked for some really dross outfits then :}

[250 kts]

One left LACC yesterday for the wilds of, I believe, Winnipeg.

[Jerricho]

See..............I'm not the only mad b@stard out there! Bring on the mozzies!

[SensibleATCO]

Some may just as well have left given the amount of sick leave that they take.....and are allowed to get away with !! It beggars belief that certain people who post and whinge on these forums about staffing, are the very same people creating the problems and letting their colleagues down by taking sick leave almost on a regular basis. It's a bit much when the phone goes on a night shift, normally around 04:00, and everyone in the room says "that'll be ******". These people have scant regard for their colleagues and the company and should be dealt with accordingly, it's about time we saw some firm management to deal with this growing problem. No wonder moral is low and people are leaving, sitting next to someone one day knowing that he/she is going to drop you in it tomorrow by not turning up. They then turn up some day's later, or next cycle, having yet again let everyone down,with a couldn't give a toss attitude and carry on as if nothing is wrong. How much longer is weak management going to let this carry on ? Something needs to be done about it as a matter of urgency in order to improve overall moral and professional standards.

[Arkady]

If you really want a debate on this issue, start a thread of your own, don't try and hijack somebody elses.

[DC10RealMan]

I can sympathise with Sensibles posting, however the other side of the coin is that most units are short of staff and short term leave (less than three months) is nearly impossible to get. I would also agree that morale is another issue but again that is down to "the management" past and present whose actions have led to this lack of morale manifesting itself in people pulling a "sickie". If as Sensible suggests "the management" crack down on this "problem" what happens when a member of staff has an incident or worse because of being unfit for duty but felt obliged to come to work for fear of being "cracked" down upon?. I would disagree that people have scant regard for their colleagues or their profession, but would suggest that most people have scant regard for their employers, but that is only a situation which is reciprocated nowadays, but I would agree that moral standards are very lax, particularly mine!!.

[250 kts]

Sensible,

How do you know that the people who whinge on the forums are the same people who take the p**s over sick?

If there is a continuing problem about an individuals' sick record then the line manager has a duty of care towards the person and also a responsibility to address the issue as far as the employer is concerned. I'm not sure nowadays staff are just left to go sick consistently without some investigation from the managers.

Also if they are phoning at 0400 then they clearly will be unfit for duty if still up at that time!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :zzz: :zzz:

[Jerricho]

It beggars belief that certain people who post and whinge on these forums about staffing, are the very same people creating the problems and letting their colleagues down by taking sick leave almost on a regular basis

I find this comment interesting. Perhaps it's these same people enjoying their "ill-gained" day(s) off and sitting on the computer all day, leaving the rest of the troops to carry on regardless.

I would go to the other end of the scale and say that those on the forum who "whinge" (your word, not mine!) about staffing are those poor b@stards who are taking up the slack. I have jumped up and down before about AAVA's and the delays being caused to Mr and Mrs Self-loading. And I recognise there is the potential for people to abuse sick leave policy. But IMHO, I think it's a bit of a cheap shot suggesting people here expressing concern and frustration are the instigators some of the problems.

It is true though, that when general staff morale is low, sick leave increases (and productivity goes down.....good thing we're not profit-driven!!!) Wow, I remembered something from those economic classes!