195's
 

Facelookbovvered

The 195 order was made by Lufthansa as part of a wider order which included two more A380's.

Lufthansa - Lufthansa Supervisory Board approves order for twelve aircraft for the Group

It just says "will augment the Lufthansa Regional fleet" rather than will
be operated by Cityline or Eurowings etc.

They have been going to Cityline to replace the RJ85.

One fleet list shows no more 190/195'd to come but still quite a few
RJ85's in the fleet. At a guess and it is only a guess I would have thought
they were for Cityline - delivery 2012 and 2013 I believe.

Pete

Thanks Pete

That makes more sense, just could not see them ordering any new kit for any bmi company until they make up their mind about a way forward, having followed the it'll be Jet2/Monarch/Flybe/IAG/Stellios/Bishop/Virgin saga, it wouldn't surprise me if they kept it! After all they couldn't find a buyer two years ago what has changed?

Faceookbovvered,

All you say sounds reasonable except the pax hating the emb. Did you know that they actually provide 2" more seat pitch than the bus? It's only downfall is the "valet service".

Also as far as killing a route, how do explain the Hanover? The word is that it's one of the best performing routes on the network, very high yields. Didn't work for a long time on a bus.

Rev management certainly appear to drop the ball sometimes. Most people seem to have a horror story about fares/availability.

The only thing that has changed is that the level of losses has increased and there is little sign of a turnaround. The shareholders patience may be running low after watching a billion euros evaporate in the last 3 years...

I can see a justification for rationalising the business by moving out of Donington Hall to offices in or around Heathrow and focus on medium haul routes out of LHR. Baby doesn't fit in the grand scheme of things and let Regional go to someone who can make a small regional operation work as an independent outfit.

Focussing on a single core product is one way to develop and save at least some of the company.

Baby and regional as good as they may seem are not what this is all about. It's definitely not about how good the staff are at each of the respective airlines in the bmi group, this means nothing in the Lufthansa boardroom. Regional and baby are hardly worth a jot compared to the one and only thing this is really about, control of Heathrow slots.

Let's hope it goes good for the bmi group staff!

Indeed let's hope it does go good for the staff

The problem is that despite considerable investment in bmi LHR the position has got worse, some of this is of course down to the Arab spring and the economic slow down in the UK, but up against BA in T5 why would you travel bmi? Don't get me wrong the product is good, the cabin staff are excellent, but where's the USP? It's the Brand that's broken and that because the punters don't know what to expect, some think it's a lo cost, in part because baby seems so much better known, you get on Swiss you know what to expect, same with Ryanair or Easyjet, but bmi? Do I get free drinks? Free food? can I thro check my luggage ? Most of the staff can't answer that and much depends on whether regional or bmi are operating the flight that day.

Lufthansa can't / won't let it go bust, ie default, so it's only left with sale or restructure, even a part sale is fraught with problems, you can end up loosing the cash flow but still have the overheads.

At least the oil price is coming down

So, just to confirm, Kittiwake is talking gubbins about bmi getting E-Jets then?

I had to say it came as something of a surprise to me.

BMI staff (aka - the wife) are talking about one of those "big announcements" so loved by all Pprune rumour mongers. Monday 4th Oct the day mentioned and Mainline and Regional the subject matter.

I'm a non-combatant so make of it what you will ......

Lets check back Tuesday to see what happened.

not sure we will find out anything new on the 4th oct.
if its bad news... remember the temps should be first to go (sorry)

there is a new route coming from manchester for the winter.

You never know it might the news it could be that VS take over BD and as part of the deal VS will join star alliance.

I seriously hope so BAladdy! :rolleyes:

The 'announcement' on Monday is just an update on how the company is doing (ie not good!) :sad: . A series of 'Presentations' to let all the staff know what's going on.

A friend at Monarch says they are having a big announcment possibly on monday. Lots of people saying it could happen but i cant see monarch taking on bmi not with the huge losses.

Kittywake
The assessment of the Mainline operation as a 'basket case' is a bit wide of the mark. The frankly astonishing losses posted by DLH lead me to believe that the beancounters are up to something. Given that the operation (the sharp end) has been undergoing the restructuring programme for the last 18 mths or so in order to SAVE costs, I find it difficult to beleive that the operating losses have practically doubled in that time. I understand DLH screwed up the fuel hedging, costing us £millions before we even started. The other stuff- Arab Spring, ash, snow, etc. are well understood. As far as the costs of crewing the aircraft go, the pilots are the cheapest Airbus pilots in the UK, & probably across a reasonable swathe of the EU as well. As for the Cabin Crew, they are slightly better off in the early years when compared with other airlines, but not by much. The airline still 'enjoys' a sizeable squadron of 'managers' floating about the place, even after the cull; this neeeds addressing. The product that is offered to the punters is confusing & lacks consistency. How can you promise a particular level of service when you put a midhaul 320 on a domestic flight one minute, & an EMB the next? And I'm sorry, the 145 may have a bit more legroom (than a Y144 A319), but give them the choice of that & an Airbus & you know the answer. Now an E195 would be a different case altogether!
-And while we're talking about the size of aircraft, the GLA route has been closed a while now; meanwhile the competition, rubbing their hands & contrary to the typical bmi yield management theorems has put a larger aircraft (767 I believe) on some rotations. We've had countless lectures from our lot that the best way to operate a route is to have a high concentration of high-yield pax on board, even if it means pi$$ing them off by shoehorning them into an unsuitable aircraft. Who's right?
Mainline has the only real crown jewels within the group; the slots. Everything else is either leased, or can be replicated by a determined competition. The trouble is the last owners have been content to babysit those slots, and sit on their perceived value rather than make proper use of them. Our new owners won't invest in the right equipment to make best use of those assets; we have widebody aircraft on our AOC already- if only half of those slots were used properly we would have a longhaul operation the size of VS with a feeder network to boot.
I'll grant you one thing though Kittywake, our branding/advertising is a basket case full of crap.

Yes BA GLA-LHR now large numbers of rotations upgraded to A321's with 767 due on early rotations on certain days plus extra frequencies. Little availabilty at short notice. BA will be lapping it up.....

Any idiot can fill an aeroplane. The key is making money whilst doing that. A mantra that needs to be shouted high and low in a certain ex-stately home in the Midlands.

A new route from MAN (?), a replacement for the Basle maybe, which is reverting to a Swiss RJ. Possibly a VIE in co-op with Austrian, ? anyone know?

I suspect that when bmi changed from being a privately owned limited company to a subsidiary of a publicly listed group a lot of accounting practices changed to bring them into line with the rest of the group. Nothing sinister as such, just a reflection of the change in ownership.

As for losses, the traffic numbers keep showing year on year falls in passengers that are in excess of capacity cuts.

Bad as they are the only losses published to date are for the period to the end of the June, some are taking this figure and x2 to suggest a annual figure of 200+m, this is very unlikely in my view.

To my knowledge the unions have not been called in for talks so I would not expect anything other than an update tomorrow.

Whist some feel sympathy for DLH long suffering share holders, I would point out that the deal with SMB 12 years ago kept British Midland out of the then very lucrative German market to the advantage of Lufthansa!

LHR slot rights have distorted much of what bmi has done this past decade, it still does! I can't see DLH walking away from the UK market.

Sunday Telegraph reporting that Stelios is looking at creating a new longhaul airline "FastJet" to compete head to head with BA and Virgin Atlantic to North America. Presumably with a Heathrow operation then. ETOPs operators approval and up to 8.4% of the Heathrow slots would be a good start.


babybaby :{

that deal was structured to put as much money into one man's pocket as possible.