Reports coming through BA and BALPA have had fresh talks concerning Gatwick and an agreement has been reached. More details tomorrow.
A new ballot is to follow.

Internet chatter of some A380s being used on short haul routes (possibly FRA and MAD) within Europe in November to get crew familiar with aircraft again, prior to longhaul use. Any concrete and verifiable details ?

BA to bring A380s out of long term storage
 

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel...-b1931883.html
Initially on short-haul LHR to Europe.

Makes sense, Iberia have been operating A350 and A 330-300s for many months into Heathrow and Madrid was a destination that has been used for crew training and now famil before.

No disrespect but Iberia has operated at least one daily flight (usually the 6/7pm) with a widebody DC10/A300 since the seventies specifically to connect with South America and for cargo.

Now use of the 388 to get hours upto to speed is certainly a welcome move.

Nowadays it's typically two, sometimes three, daily widebody rotations, usually A330 or A350.

Plus BA usually using a 777 daily.

Restarted WBs on MAD in September after nearly a year's break - currently 3 times a week with a 787.

Rutan16

There’s no ‘and’ about it, it’s entirely for the cargo. Mainly fresh food. So much cargo that baggage is often left behind and sent on another flight, freeing up the entire hold of the wide-body for cargo.

A lack of direct BA flights to South/Central America and a reduced schedule through MIA is the reason for multiple wide-bodies on LHR-MAD during Covid times.

vectisman

Anyone know any more on this? What concessions have been made to resurrect this proposal?

BALPA ballot has ended and they have voted in favour of the new deal

New codeshare with Kenya Airways. Yes, I was surprised. The website is reputable so I assume it is true

Result of Alex Cruz scorched earth policy at the start of the pandemic. Scrapped 31 perfectly good 747 aircraft which were not due for retirement until 2024. All the wide bodied fleets are working flat out at the moment, with the exception of the A380 which are slowly being reintroduced. There are no spare wide bodied airframes at the moment. With USA opening up next month something has to give.

BAs current performance is nothing short of abysmal. Their punctuality stats ex LHR are appalling.
The current Heathrow management team is shambolic no structure no leader no direction.
Sean Doyle has been in charge now for just short of 1 year and has yet to put his footprint on the direction he wants to go. He inherited a real :mad: fest from Cruz but can’t hide behind that and COVID for ever. At some point he needs to make some sort of statement and action. Ultimately he is CEO and is the one who is accountable for the complete mess at LHR.

Scrapping the 74s was short term money. CEOs no longer look even 5 years ahead.

It also didn’t make total financial sense. I guess BAW owned all their 744s and paid for a long time ago… so no lease rates. Yes, they are fuel heavy, but it doesn’t cost much to keep them in parking / long term storage down at CWL or elsewhere. Not to say that some withdrawals would’ve been inevitable.

This problem definitely isn’t exclusive to BAW however.

From one website:

<<Passengers travelling from Heathrow to Nairobi with BA will be able to book connecting flights with Kenya Airways to destinations including Douala, Zanzibar, Lusaka, Mombasa, Addis Ababa and Entebbe. BA currently operates four flights a week to Nairobi using a four-class B777.>>

Is the suggestion from the team here that if BA had retained it’s 744s it would allow them to return to operating interesting “add on’s” to it’s Nairobi services instead of this code share, or is the thought that there is now enough traffic to justify the likes of Dar or Mombasa direct to/from London?

Those with long memories will know BA used to operate the 744 (and before that other long haul types ) to places such has Dar and Mombasa as extensions to the NBO services years ago and I think at much the same time the 767 did one or two dedicated non-stop services to that part of the world.

That all stopped because the economics didn’t stack up….has (potential) business increased so much that the 744 Afrika Corp :ooh: needs to be reformed, or is the code share perhaps a smarter move than we think?

The team might also be surprised at just how much it does cost to keep an aircraft mothballed (in the case of BA's 747s probably for several years) in a state that would permit a potential return to service. It's not simply a question of parking it in the desert to await the breaker's axe.

I think the debate about the 744s is completely academic - were they still in the BA fleet today, they wouldn't have enough cabin crew to run them, just as for the rest of the fleet at the moment!

The 320s that operate to KEF, are they the standard European fit? i.e. with 'biz' as standard with blocked middle?
Thanks.

British Airway's A380's; G-XLEK and G-XLEA appear on FRF24 currently in Manila.
G-XLEK arrived yesterday (23rd) from Madrid as BA9171
G-XLEA is currently showing on ground at MNL , Destination unspecified (N/A)

Yes. There is not an alternative.

Cheers. They were not that clear. Now I can book seats.

BA now actively recruiting management positions for the new Gatwick short haul subsidiary. Aim
is to start operations in Summer 2022.
By Summer 2022 I mean start of airline Summer timetables so probably late March 2022

Over 18 months since global lockdown began... was BA right in hindsight to have terminated the 747 ? I know former 747 pilots and cabin crew will have a strong opinion, but hoping for an answer of what was in IAG shareholders' interests rather than the point of view of (former) employees or spotters.

In responding, (and I know this is obvious to all but the most ardent of believers, so please don't take offence), remember there is a cost to putting a fleet into storage, and a cost to bringing it out of storage, along with the associated payroll and training costs, and that a type with just 1 air frame is pointless - so for 18+ months of storage to have been worthwhile, there needs to be a *substantial* need from Jan-2022 onwards that can't be met by the existing (or new deliveries) fleet

Before COVID-19, BA's original plan was to have 12 747s left by the end of 2022 with the last aircraft retired in February 2024. As well as the cost of bringing aircraft back into service, it's worth remembering what kept the 747s going in part at BA were the 86J versions that BA could fill on relatively short routes to JFK etc.

With business travel unlikely tor return in meaningful form until next year, it was probably the right to decision to retire the aircraft early.

Given that they were owned assets that cost very little to dispose of and were on the way out anyway, the answer is probably yes. Especially given how long it's taken for a meaningful restart.

On the contrary to the above, routes like JFK are easily replaced by the 777, especially the high-J 77W. The 747 found itself in this configuration and on these routes because it was more efficient to use older aircraft on shorter routes, which is why they haven't been regularly seen East of Delhi for a good 7-8 years now. The routes that'll 'miss' the 747 are the high density leisure orientated routes that also have a sizable premium demand and aren't reliant on high frequencies - such as Cape Town, Las Vegas and Miami - although the densification of the 772 fleet has closed the gap somewhat.

dave..

Being amongst other things ex BA747 I know a lot of people got very attached to the Queen of the Skies and there were some very strong opinions expressed on the 744 sell off last year - probably understandable but the sentiment in some quarters was such that some employees had a theory that was verging into tinfoil hat territory regarding the motives for the scrapping…..

That said I find it very hard to disagree with either nguba and Vokes on this. From an economic /inventory POV once the potential scale of the stoppage became known it’s hard to see any justification for doing anything other than sell the airframes off.

The company have changed our seat reservations for trip to KEF. I had specifically chosen seats - and paid for them in advance. When I went to look where the new seats were, I saw that all the seat reservation charges wer now much less than I paid. Can i get a refund of the balance?

BA tell me the reason for the change is 'Operational Reasons'. Obviously I do not doubt them, especially as it is exactly the same a/c type operating the sectors ...

Yes. If they changed the seat you can get a full refund on the reservation fees. CE cabins are quite flexible at the moment so there are lots of shifts happening.

So what sort of routes are BAW going to operate out of LGW. Very much the same as before (minus the LH hops obviously)? Or probably a rehash of MON just with deeper pockets?

Routes like: GLA, EDI, JER, DUB, BHD, CDG, ABZ, NCE, VIE, ZAG, LCA, PFO, CPH, SSH, GNB, LYS, MPL, TLS, BER, DUS, FRA, HAM, MUC, GIB, ATH, CFU, KGS, JMK, ZTH, TLV, MXP, FCO, NAP, PSA, VCE, AMS, OSL, ARN, FAO, LIS, FNC, ALC, BCN, MAD, IBZ, TFS, ACE, FUE, AGP, MAH, LPA, PMI, ZRH, GVA, BSL, AYT, DLM, BJV

I guess that's a long list for only 17 aircraft - presumably they will consolidate the business routes there into LHR and it'll be left with B&S routes...

I would imagine holiday flights. Very much the same flights operating pre-COVID.

From the list above I can’t see CPH, DUS, FRA, MUC, HAM, TLV, OSL, ARN or ZRH ever operating from LGW with BA.

My thoughts,

EDI, JER nope unless BA see merit in a W rotation, DUB nope EI operate it, BHD, nope that would be an LHR/LCY route, CdG nope, VY operate it, ABZ nope, it worked at LGW when the oil/gas longhauls were at LGW like DFW and IAH but not now. CPH, ARN, OSL nope as they are LHR routes and head to head with Norwegian. ZRH is an LHR route, same for HAM, MUC, BSL, TLV, MXP, LIS, MAD. MAD is covered by IB Express, BCN covered by VY

i suspect a similar but smaller LGW operation to pre covid, leisure, mainly point to point and VFR focussed.

I think an important focus for the new subsidiary is flattening out the curve between summer peak and winter lull.

focussing Christmas markets, ski markets, Lapland and winter sun hopefully will be a focus. Anything and anywhere to stimulate demand in the traditionally leaner months of November, December (excluding Christmas) January and February.

I know BA last year did plan a few new routes from LHR that were heavily VFR focussed like Cluj etc, those heavy VFR routes could be useful to th3 LGW operation, especially post covid, other than that, to fill the leaner months,

the likes of SZG, INN, FDH, LYS, GNB, KTT, RVN, NUE, CGN?, LPA, TFS, ACE, FUE?, SSH, HRG etc and be creative, not every destination needs to be served for five months, like the Christmas markets, they were popular pre covid, target three or four of the biggest markets and serve the, say 10th Dec to 5th January

summer I’d expect traditional point to point leisure routes. With 17 a/c many ex LGW routes won’t operate or be from LHR. Any routes BA have found with good LHR longhaul feed figures will stay, I’d expect DBV to remain at LHR, as a hunch.

Long haul continues to operate from London Gatwick. About 8 777s being required for the Winter 20212/2022 season and increasing to 11 or 12 for Summer 2022. The difference being that long haul remains with
Mainline operation. I suspect the cabin crew for these Gatwick long haul flights are the remaining 300 or so Gatwick crew who were not made redundant in 2020. Flight crew for the 777s are Heathrow based.
I know that BA are in contact with the former Gatwick Cabin Crew talent pool and asking them them to let them know if they wish to be considered for the new subsidiary before the end of November.
I believe the plan is currently for an initial 17 SH aircraft for Summer 2022 to increase by several units per year for several years. If demand warrants the number of units will be increased sooner.

As for short haul routes to some extent it depends on how independent and innovative the new short haul subsidiary is allowed to be. There may be even be scope for limited feeders for the long haul operation.
Although I agree domestics may not be the initial focus, pre-Covid BA was carrying about a few hundred thousand a year between London Gatwick and Edinburgh. There is probably a fairly decent point to point market
for some domestic services. Likewise Jersey may warrant a seasonal service from Gatwick. Amsterdam and Rome were served from Gatwick, but catering more for point to point leisure travellers. The cheaper cost of Gatwick
allowed BA holidays to offer some good value city breaks. To some extent it may depend on how demand for certain destinations recovers at Heathrow and pressure on BA slots at that airport. Increasing charges at Heathrow and
the third runway seeming further away than ever ,will also have a bearing on BAs plans for Gatwick both long-haul and short-haul.

So what happens to all those slots BA hold, is there some sort of slot waver for S22?

I don’t believe so at this moment. If no waiver, it reverts to the use it or loose it rule which means they need to use the slots 80% of the time. So if they plan for some routes from S22 then they will likely just have different times through the week etc and ad hoc cancellations etc so all slots remain used 80%. They can also lease some out or sell (but I guess that market is kind of depressed).

There is no confirmation (either way) of a slot waiver for S22 as yet. A consultation from DFT is expected any day now, and it is already obvious that any slot waiver for S22 will be far more hotly contested than for the previous three seasons. It's far from clear as to whether any alleviation will be granted or this is just seen to be delaying a correction / shake-out that is perceived to be overdue anyway, depending on to whom you listen. Anyone banking on a slot waiver for S22 without a Plan B is playing a decidedly high-risk game.

I see the company is now actively recruiting across many fields. I doubt they will be oferring the same salaries as those they laid off ...

what is this Gatwick EuroFlyer nonsense?

What do you mean by using the term ‘nonsense’
Gatwick Euroflyer is simply the official legal name of the new Gatwick short haul subsidiary.