those rumours.

Glad it’s working out for you at jet2, although maybe time to move on regarding your anti TUI posting?

Your ex Thomas cook mates (the ones I’ve spoken to) all seem very happy at TUI. You constantly talking down their new employer won’t help them them much will it?

Jonty

The two German loans were made post Brexit and did not raise any concerns here in the UK. Also they were loans agreed on commercial terms and not technically a bailout as given to the likes of Alitalia where there was little if any chance of getting your money back.

One unknown element for all airlines with high levels of debt is what happens to interest rates in the future. As long as the global rates remain low and assuming business returns quickly they can pay down the debt and be fine.
If rates climb and business is slower to return then some may face the prospect of refinancing at higher rates. That's when things become challenging.
TUI have a wide base of operations across Europe so I imagine they will be better placed than some others. Time will tell but I wish them all well.

they were pre the end of the transition phase though we’re they not?

it probably has no impact, it’s was just an idling thought.

whatdoesthisbuttondo

You seen very keen to shutdown any discussion that you dislike don’t you? I wonder why that is? I can imagine you’re a real charmer to fly with!
Rather than just accusing people of “doing down TUI” why don’t you post the opposite point?
And as for exTCX pilots being happy, in the middle of a global pandemic, they will be, they aren’t idiots. Being exTCX they will be quite a bit more switched on and worldly wise given what they have been through.

whatdoesthisbuttondo

Don’t rise to it. This is the same user who claimed Thomas Cook would soon be debt free, a month before their collapse. The reason for the axe to grind is fairly obvious too.

You guys REALLY don’t like actually discussing TUI do you? It’s quite amazing, in a thread about TUI, that someone discussing the single biggest issue facing the company suddenly has an “axe to grind” It says a lot about your confidence in the company.

Now if either of you has any point to make that’s relevant to the topic please carry on, otherwise stop trying to shoot the messenger, it makes you look desperate.

As for the Thomas Cook comment, that was said in the context of the refinancing that Thomas Cook was trying to undertake. If it had worked Thomas Cooks historic debt would have effectively been wiped out. Unfortunately for all concerned it didn’t work out.

A quick look through your posts suggests there’s no “suddenly” about it.

As someone with no axe to grind on any side of this debate - having never worked for TCX, TUI or Jet2 - I'll contribute to say I think Jonty's comments appear deliberately poisonous.

The Thomas Cook infrastructure was cobbled together through mergers and acquisitions over several years. The product - particularly in resort accommodation but you could possibly apply the same to the aircraft fleet - never could have the investment to reach the base standard that TUI has today. If TUI is unable to maintain the same level of investment for 2/3/4 years to repay debt, its product will by and large remain above that which TC was consistently unable to reach. That's before you get onto the discussion about cruise strategy where TC had nothing in-house but was a retailer for others but TUI has a big asset base through TUI and Marella which keeps operating margin in house.

If TUI embarks on an acquisition spree (although it's difficult to see what would be left to buy!) and saddles itself with further debt, the jury would be out on its long-term future. If they stick to doing what they're doing and develop organically after the pandemic, I see every reason why they should still be here. There is a market for what they're selling, and one that isn't exclusively defined by price - unlike the position into which TC steered itself over a few years before its demise.

One way of looking at this airline vs airline rivalry would be to ask where the benchmark Ts and Cs will end up if those at TUI are in any way reduced?

Nobody with a mental age over 12 is looking at an airline vs airline rivalry. The majority of pilots across the industry want all companies to survive and all pre-Covid T&Cs to be restored and/or maintained.

G-TUIK to join the SE- reg very soon on transfer to the Nordic Airline

757's
 

What is the current status with the 757's as much was made that they had been withdrawn and up pops BHX-AGP tomorrow listed as a 757 positioning up from Gatwick to operate in the morning.

The other two are with STS at BHX, I believe one in the hangar and one outside but assume these two are decommissioned from active service if another is being brought in to operate?

Seems strange reusing a 757 when they have so many 738s. Did they ever use any of the used 738s they acquired and if not, do they intend to?

757
 

The flight was originally down as a 788 so I assume the pax load was between 189 and 221 and maybe crewing was also an issue with the 788 and 789 sitting on the ground at BHX.

The 788 arrived in the night from Paphos and is due out to Istanbul later for a F1 charter tomorrow so I presume that this is part of the reason why it hasn't been used.

The BHX 73H's and Max's are fairly busy today albeit only a flight each by the look of it.

There has been a couple of strange 757 movements at BHX in the last week, One operated a PFO rotation last Sunday and now one has operated the AGP service today, while the last two days PFO flights have been upgraded from the planned 738 to 787s but I understand the loads have all been in 738 range so maybe its Cargo related with my flight back from LCA to BHX last week having a large amount of fresh limes in the forward hold

TUI Short of aircraft at the moment ? Seem to be alot of subs today TUIfly D-ATUO/ Belgiums OO-MAX, Privilege A321 & Enter Air 737.

Plenty of aircraft. Just not enough cabin crew.

A general industry problem. Many cabin crew found new jobs during COVID and have no interest in returning. But they also may have taken the furlough cash while working their second jobs.

When recalled to fly, their employers have been shocked to receive a resignation in response.

So now most UK airlines scrabbling to crew flights.

This is a problem of their own making. They have made too many cabin crew redundant.

LiamNCL

Not sure that lack of CC was the reason for all the Sub Charters yesterday as it was the end of the Summer season there was always going to be a number of ferry flights so it made sense to use some ad hoc carriers based in mainland Europe to cover some of the the flights with the Belgian OO-MAX operating a revenue flight out to Tenerife for Tui Belgium as start of their winter programme then operated the last of the Tui summer flights back to EMA.

I am told it was also complicated more by Red tape ,due to some crew being on a contract only until 31/10 that created issues with liability insurance when the flight arrived back in the UK past Midnight.

Jet2 did it in a slightly different way with doing a few double drops in the UK and Greek Islands along with aircraft swaps down route

I noticed G-TAWW flew to Toronto too so the leasing to Sunwings back this winter ? Ironic some of the fleet still carry branding 2 year since the last stint.

What’s ‘ironic’ about that?

I assume because G-TAWW isn't one of the ones wearing the Sunwing livery.

Regarding the charters, I was very surprised at the use of Privilege Style from BHX given that some TUI aircraft were sitting idle but either of the matters above could possibly explain that.

D-ATUO (TUI Germany 738) flew HAJ*-ABZ-TFS-ABZ-*HER-HAJ (*ferry) over the past couple of days which was rather odd as two ferry flights were still needed but, again, could be due to the above.

What's odd about that? Every single TUI branded flight from anywhere in Europe to Heraklion over the past 8 days would've been a ferry, it's the end of the season. Operating ABZ-HER-HAJ saved an extra ferry sector and allowed them to reposition the crew back to Germany efficiently. Not odd at all.

As for which aircraft go to Sunwing, this will be dictated largely by maintenance cycles and will be aircraft that don't need to visit a hangar for 3-4 months. Maintenance is obviously pre-planned months in advance, so they'll know which aircraft are going and plan accordingly. Whilst stickers can be added and removed fairly quickly and cheaply, repainting a whole tail costs money and isn't a priority during 18 months of little income.

Downwind_Left

Yep. I'm just surprised that any employer would be shocked. Entirely predictable given the pay and working conditions. There are plenty of pilots in the same boat.

ROC10

I was speaking to a member of BHX crew today about the Privilege Style charter on Sunday they confirmed this one was caused by a lack of BHX cabin crew as they operated AYT,AGP,PFO,ACE and LPA on 787s over the weekend plus the LH routes started up as well so had a set of crew down route in MBJ and needed a set of crew for Monday am CUN so simply didn’t have enough crew

G-OBYG en route to St Athan. Is that leaving TUI now or in for maintenance?

Glad I made the effort to watch its departure

Are any 767’s going to see next year? I know G-OBYH has been at BHX for weeks now without moving but what about YF/YK?

Shame. Travelled back from Indonesia on YG at the end of the Hadj. Seems like a lifetime ago now.

YK has just gone to Stockholm so is clearly going to be spending some time (perhaps the whole winter?) flying for TUI fly Nordic. That just leaves YF which last flew on Monday. Unsurprisingly it doesn’t look like many of the winter flights will justify the use of a 767 which is usually the case even pre-Covid.

Left Stockholm this afternoon as TOM925P last tracked heading east over Russia so that maybe gone too.

Are any short haul routes planned to be operated by 787's for Summer 22, previously it was shown in the booking stage but this feature seems to have been removed.

Particularly interested in Gatwick to Paphos flights

it might be worth you checking google flights, the TUI aircraft types are now showing, but of course all subject to change!

Birmingham is currently showing 2 787s based for summer 2022, 1 presumably a 789 will do long haul every day, the other a 788, is scheduled to operate short haul flights Monday-Saturday, and a long haul flight on Sunday. Pretty certain Gatwick and Manchester will also have short haul flying on the dreamliners.

Where is G-TUMA last seen going to Brussels 7/11, has it joined TUI fly fleet. I also note we are only operating 2 767-3 YF and YK are YG and YH wfu.

Summer 22 A321 Ops
 

Hi all,

Just booked a holiday for July 2022, both flights TOM4356 (LGW-FUE), TOM4669 (FUE-LGW) are shown as being operated by TUI.
However the return flight 4669, is showing as being operated by a A321 and not a B737. Any idea who will be operating that flight?

Thanks

My guess EZY, TUI booking space with them on a few routes now.