TURIN

Your source is misinformed. As someone directly involved in the process, I can attest to that.

I hope it works out for them but I reckon booking are very low so far. MCO might be doing better because of more last minute bookings which are undercutting VS who would have solid loads already.

US sales needed so hopefully they are cleared soon.

I would imagine that most of Virgins solid loads are deferred flights from last year and that money has already been spent.
i wish them both well as people certainly deserve a holiday.

5strypes

My source is Aer Lingus. 😁

So first you claim you have a 'sinking feeling' about it, then that you can't reveal your sources to actually claiming your source is Aer Lingus?

With the current lack of clarity surrounding travel in the near future it's obviously far easier to cast doubt on this venture and a push back wouldn't be a massive surprise but I'm not sure you're the one with the inside track you claim.

Advertised ground ops manger and duty airport manager this morning.

Shamrock350

Woah there, easy tiger.
If this venture fails it directly affects my future employment. I don't want it to fail any more than you do. I'm merely sceptical after being let down by so many 'new routes/airlines at MAN' over the years.
I don't want to get into a :mad: contest over who's got the juice, I'm really not interested.

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While genuinely wishing the best to those who’ll be employed, how would this be regarded if the boot was on the other foot? Would any foreign airline be welcome to set up a subsidiary in Dublin without employing local pilots and managed and controlled from abroad?

What, like Hibernian, Norwegian or SAS Ireland, you mean?

SAS Ireland aircraft all operate from London Heathrow so, no, I don’t mean like that (yes I appreciate their admin office is in DUB)

ShotOne

allowed yes, welcome that depends on individual views.

You could view it another way. If MAN works out and they commit to long term operation positions for local pilots will come up. If they had to employ pilots from day one MAN wouldn’t happen.

ShotOne

I don't get your point. Is it not the same as what presently occurs in Dublin where Lufthansa, KLM and BA (albeit IAG) nightstop and grab Irish originating pax then fly them to a hub and onwards? None of the aforementioned airlines have bases setup in Ireland nor employ local crews. The most they would have is perhaps a country/regional manager and use third party service providers for ground services. This is all enshrined in the various "freedoms" of aviation.

EI are employing local ground and CCMs in MAN and there is provision that if the base is under subscribed for flight deck then EI UK can go into the market and hire directly.

If you want to get a flight deck position in Aer Lingus UK then I am afraid there is no way to skip the queue as there is a seniority list.

ShotOne

As mentioned prior, this is common place. TUI, a UK airline, operate ex DUB to both Canaries and Carribbean, with no Irish crew or setup. Virgin, operate to the US via Dublin, albeit for cargo. BA Cityflyer operate from Dublin to sun routes in Spain. Norwegian is perhaps the perfect example, an airline setup to avoid labour laws operating throughout Europe. The world is a global place now, and it's a cautious line between protecting jobs and xenophobia. Aer Lingus are unionised, with strong working conditions and a seniority list, the nationality of its workers is entirely besides the point. They will be paying tax in the UK, many will relocate to the UK and not that it's worth anything, but many pilots and crew within EI are in fact British.

I suppose the difference is that Aer Lingus UK is a new subsidiary opened and based in a different country flying non Irish aircraft on a new AOC but still wholly crewed by Aer Lingus. But we live in strange times.

5strypes

The key difference is that the examples quoted were when we were in the EU and part of the Open Skies agreement.

We aren't now but Aer Lingus UK have satisfied the criteria to obtain a UK AOC and approval from the Americans.

While this is true don't TUI just outsource to Canada for DUB/BFS and a few other airports with Canadian flight deck/aircraft. Identical set up local cabin crew only for EI UK but they happen to have pilots already based in UK.

Just a short term seasonal damp lease, not an airline operating under it's own AOC.

As I have said before, Aer Lingus UK is a UK airline operating on a UK AOC issued by the UK CAA. Staff will be employed in the UK and pay UK tax.

Sure, the pilots may transfer from Ireland but given the state of global aviation now, I find it hard to believe anyone is upset at an airline trying to save pilot jobs rather than add to the already heartbreaking list of out of work pilots.

And let's not get too bogged down by the ownership of this UK company, after all the flag carrier is ultimately owned by the same people as Aer Lingus UK, and Ryanair, lets face it, are not a UK company but probably employing the most pilots in the UK (or at least in the top 2-3 airlines employing pilots in the UK) and a lot them are not on the UK AOC ...

I find the negativity and need to diminish things on pprune these days particularly sad, at a time when we should all be coming together to support the resurrection of aviation after what has been a real :mad: year ...

I agree the main issue isn’t ownership but please excuse what you term “negativity”. Not a single U.K. pilot job is being “saved”: these jobs are simply being exported. I acknowledge some Brits are presently employed by AL just as there are many Irish pilots flying for U.K. airlines. But even in the event of future recruitment there’s no guarantee British pilots would be eligible.

EI-EIDW

I don't believe so, their 787s are definitely UK pilots, though you may be correct on the 737 stuff.

Regarding 'outsourcing' jobs, these jobs would not have existed if EI didn't bring them. If you believe otherwise, you're naïve. I have not complained at the 'outsourcing' of jobs from Dublin to UK pilots.

As said before, there is a negativity and willingness to bash, when we should be grateful there's even a glimmer of a restart in our industry.