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-   -   Flybe-V1 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/637085-flybe-v1.html)

commit aviation 3rd Jun 2021 18:47

From the CAA website: " Decision 1/2021
Operating and Route Licences of FBE Realisations 2021 Limited (formerly Flybe Limited Company Number 02769768 – Decision to Revoke by CAA. This decision has been up held by the Secretary of State for Transport

Note that the above decision does not affect the licences held by Flybe Limited (formerly Thyme OpCo Limited Company Number 12875147) "

I'm no expert but I would take it that the new company is not directly affected as it has a separate AOC but does not have rights to the old company slot portfolio. Whether the new co is viable without those slots will no doubt become apparent based on whether they push forward or not.

biddedout 3rd Jun 2021 22:42

It just looks like an administrative tidying up exercise to me. I guess the rights to slots went across to the new company as part of the deal between Thyme and Flybe Ltd in Administration (EY). I don't think the Sec of State is involved in approving individual slot pairs as it is all done through ACL but presumably they will have to get flown on once things start moving again in order to keep them alive.

Atlantic Explorer 4th Jun 2021 04:05

Then why go through the appeal process with the CAA if it doesn’t matter?

Albert Hall 4th Jun 2021 06:31

It just looks like an administrative tidying up exercise to me.
I think there is much more to it than that. Apologies if I do not get this 100% right and start some "fake news", but here's how I believe it to be.

To complete the full shift of Old Flybe assets and slots into New Flybe, there had to be a period where both companies held their licences. This had to last beyond 3 June as that's the date on which winter slot allocations are given out by slot coordinators. The CAA / Shapps decision to revoke Old Flybe's licences means that this parallel running now can't happen and so the winter slots of Old Flybe have lapsed and can't be obtained then moved across to New Flybe. The CAA is almost at pains in its announcement to differentiate between New Flybe (Flybe Limited) and Old Flybe (FBE Realisations 2021).

The timing of the announcement on 3 June may be a coincidence but it certainly does not look like one.

New Flybe has an Operating Licence and could start commercial flights tomorrow if it wanted to. What's changed on the back of the CAA decision is that it now hasn't got the winter season slots of Old Flybe - it would have to go get its own slots.

New Flybe is just as able to start flying as it was before. But it has lost the benefit of Old Flybe's slots, and so I guess if this was a really a "slot play" as has been suggested, we'll now see for sure. Slots aren't exactly hard to come by at most regional airports if it is genuinely serious about starting as a UK regional airline, so time will soon tell.

cavokblues 4th Jun 2021 07:39

The old Flybe was granted grandfathering rights for the Heathrow slots last summer but as they've now lost the license I think the slots will also disappear. As far as I know, the new airline did not have any rights to those slots. They were awarded to an airline which, legally, still had an operating license until yesterday. The CAA were assured no tickets would be sold until the appeal outcome was decided.

As Albert Hall says, it really is now that we will see the true intentions of the airline.

willy wombat 4th Jun 2021 10:53

Well I’ve always been open about my view that this was just a slot play. My guess is that, in due course, new Flybe will announce that of course it was never about slots but sadly due to the pandemic lasting longer than they expected, etc etc, they have decided not to proceed further. On the other hand, if new Flybe actually starts operating scheduled services I will eat my proverbial hat.

CabinCrewe 5th Jun 2021 08:56

if there was any time to take advantage of domestic routes such as theirs in the current circumstances, it would be now. With no sign if it, this is not going to come to anything or end well if it does.
The flying public would be hesitant unless there was a rename and rebrand.
Shame as they did offer useful routes, but perhaps just not profitably!

cavokblues 7th Jun 2021 08:12


Grant Shapps has intervened to prevent a Mayfair hedge fund manager from cashing in on take off and landing slots at Heathrow owned by Flybe worth tens of millions of pounds.
The Transport Secretary supported a decision by the Civil Aviation Authority to revoke Flybe’s operating licence on Thursday.
Had the decision not been rubber-stamped, Lucien Farrell of Cyrus Capital would have been free to transfer slots at Heathrow airport to a new *company hoping to resurrect the Flybe brand after June 3.
Mr Farrell – whose friends include Ben Elliot, the nephew of the Duchess of Cornwall and co-chairman of the Conservative Party – could then have sold seven pairs of slots, which prior to the pandemic changed hands for up to $74m (£52m) each. They are still believed to be worth about £10m despite the impact of coronavirus.
Flybe collapsed into administration in March 2020 with the loss of 2,000 jobs. Cyrus previously owned the *carrier alongside Sir Richard Branson’s Virgin Atlantic and what was called *Stobart Group, the owner of Southend *Airport.
Cyrus acquired the airline’s assets last autumn through a new company called Thyme Opco. The company said that it aimed to restore regional air links and help the British economy recover, but it faced a key hurdle in gaining an operating licence.
The slots in question were handed to Flybe under “remedy” procedures aimed at preventing British Airways from dominating the market.
When Flybe failed, the slots were allocated back to BA last summer. Flybe still had the right to access them – but only if the airline had a operating licence after June 3. At this point, Mr Farrell could have sold them on.

ecause it was in administration, Flybe’s operating licence was revoked by the Civil Aviation Authority in February. But the revocation was not official until the decision was confirmed by Mr Shapps.
Although Thyme Opco has been granted an operating licence, this does not entitle it to take over the Flybe remedy slots at Heathrow. Lawyers working for the administrator EY told regulators in February that “the slots are essential to the business”.
It is understood that Thyme Opco, now called Flybe Limited, has been awarded separate but less valuable slots at Manchester and Birmingham *airports.
A spokesman for EY said: “The decision will not impact the wider administration or the sale of the company’s business or assets to the purchaser, Flybe Limited, formerly known as Thyme Opco Limited. The new entity, Flybe Limited, is independently and separately licensed by the Civil Aviation Authority, and will continue to hold a valid and active licence.”
Industry watchers remain sceptical however of Flybe’s chances of returning to the skies.
The airline, Europe’s biggest regional carrier, was perennially loss-making and suffered from customers being charged twice for air passenger duty when flying return journeys on domestic UK routes.
This made it difficult to compete with other modes of transport such as trains. Cyrus Capital declined to comment.

134brat 7th Jun 2021 15:46

If there is any value left in these slots their value should be realised and used to pay creditors and to support the BRAL pensioners.

Meanwhile, back in the real world. ....

southamptonavgeek 7th Jun 2021 16:54

I'm not mentioning the 'slot grab' possibility here as nothing is certain...

...but have the Birmingham and Manchester slots been reported prior to this?

BA318 7th Jun 2021 18:06

The ACL S21 Declaration has this for Flybe at Manchester. Nothing is listed for Birmingham.

“Flybe CHANGE All slots remain for S21 whilst final decision is made on Flybe's operating licence which is revoked but still valid to hold slots.”

otherwise I don’t think we’ve had any information on potential routes until now.

airspeed75 10th Jun 2021 17:35

So from what I understand reading the above fairly reliably sourced journalism aka the telegraph (as reliable as can be on here) - which isn't going to just make up that Shapps has intervened - is that we are now at a major point where it will become apparent or not whether it was all a slot play?

Reading that it seems any chance of FlyBe 2 getting the slots from FlyBe 1 are dead in the water, meanwhile there are slots allocated to Flybe 2 from MAN/BHX which are currently not in use with no restart in sight whatsoever publicly as we charge full steam ahead into a domestic stay-cation summer?

If it is indeed a real endeavor whatsoever then where are they? Have they realised Covid has killed the industry? Has anyone had eyes on that dash 8 registered to them?

Or has it all died a death?

BusterHot 10th Jun 2021 17:39

I think you’ve probably answered your own question.

SKOJB 10th Jun 2021 18:16

Not going to happen and was a slot/money grab all along!

EGTE 10th Jun 2021 18:28

The Dash 8 G-CLXC is sat outside the Exeter Aerospace hangar looking rather unloved.

allan1987 10th Jun 2021 19:30

​​​​​​Looks to be just make money back that lost from Flybe, just have now slots in Man and Bhx and UK AOC, possibly will be sold to someone as could be to a small Irish airline.... Or just closed down

Albert Hall 10th Jun 2021 19:51

I think there are still a few things going on - this is not yet the end of the chapter for Flybe 2, and I'm led to believe that they are quite happy for everyone to believe that it's dead as they keep working in the background. Only time will tell if that work comes to something.

And on the loose subject of Flybe, TAP Air Portugal has a new CEO from later this month - a French lady recently of the parish of Clyst Honiton.

willy wombat 10th Jun 2021 20:19

Re new TAP CEO. Are you serious?

Back at NH 10th Jun 2021 20:29

“France’s Christine Ourmières-Widener will take the helm of Portuguese airline TAP at the group’s next general assembly to be held on June 24, AFP learned from the Portuguese government on Wednesday.”

JobsaGoodun 10th Jun 2021 20:34

..although it looks like an Exec Chair role for a 3yr term 2021-24 rather than CEO

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