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-   -   Flybe-V1 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/637085-flybe-v1.html)

cavokblues 21st Apr 2021 13:38

fjencl

I think that article made me more confused than anything, seems to jump around a bit with the timeline. (Maybe it's just me and my brain turning to mush during furlough....!)

My understanding was the EU had awarded the old Flybe (now FBE Realisations) the grandfathering rights on the slots. This has been challenged by IAG.

The CAA had also revoked the old airline's OL, which Thyme OpCo wanted transferred to their new airline. Thyme Opco (Now Flybe Ltd) have appealed that decision. The old airline's OL remains valid until the appeal has been heard and the decision overturned or ratified.

allan1987 27th Apr 2021 13:35

looks to be Flybe have got back the remedy bmi slots?

Flybe have acquired 86 weekly slots at London Heathrow from British Airways - these are listed for a Dash-8 (78 seat) aircraft with Edinburgh listed with 50x weekly (5x daily) and Aberdeen listed with 36x weekly (3x daily flights)

dixi188 27th Apr 2021 14:59

Ah! The new 10 and 12 day weeks!:)

fjencl 27th Apr 2021 15:21

That's a lot of sectors for 1 dash 8 to undertake (well i say 1 dash 8 as that's the number of aircraft registered to them so far) Time will tell tho..........

Pistonprop 27th Apr 2021 16:24

So they intend to compete against the A320Neo with Dash 8 equipment?

EGTE 27th Apr 2021 18:31

2 slots required for each flight from Heathrow - take off and landing!

dixi188 28th Apr 2021 00:21

Makes sense now.

cavokblues 28th Apr 2021 07:48

Isn't this just the old airline getting the slots back as per the grandfathering rights?

The old airline's OL still hasn't been revoked as the appeal is still awaiting its outcome so it would make sense that they have been awarded the slots?

I would be very surprised if any new version of the airline would want to launch on those routes!

ATNotts 28th Apr 2021 08:01

I agree, jumping into the bear pit that is Scotland / London domestics without codeshare / interlining arrangements up against BA that will be aggressively pricing when eventually the world reopens would be total folly. Of course the slots don't have to be used for the rotes specified, but I am struggling to work out which routes Flybe2 could possibly make work from LHR, except NQY or EXT, even perhaps LPL but that would be extremely iffy given the rail links to the capital.

There are probably many "safer" routes from the UK regions to mainland Europe that I would have thought they would be considering before LHR.

SKOJB 28th Apr 2021 08:13

SOU-CDG immediately springs to mind and has yet to be taken up

ATNotts 28th Apr 2021 08:36

Perhaps EXT or CWL CDG as well. BHX to STR/LYS/TXL/HAJ/BER, not sure if BHX to NOC has been taken up yet either. Then EDI/GLA to EMA used to do reasonably well, but to do that they would need a base in either of the Scottish airports or EMA, and I just can't see the latter happening unless they believe EMA/CDG is worth a shot again. I'm sure that as part of the purchase they bought the detailed analysis of what worked and what didn't under the old regime and if they try to start what were financial holes again they'll go down the same pan as Flybe Mk.1.

There are niches but it will have to be slow and steady on a "big bang" approach as I really doubt the owners pockets are going to be deep enough to support too many new or restarted routes in one hit.

BA318 28th Apr 2021 08:54

If every route Flybe served was as successful and profitable as people on here claim they wouldnít be gone.

Itís madness for new Flybe to launch LHR-Scotland routes as its first operation and a sure fire way to burn millions.

They are not going to make money either by spreading themselves all over the place with one plane here and one there. Post Covid Iíd go for smaller bases offering key routes along with more leisure focused in the in between. Basically go for the BA Cityflyer approach. LCY might be a good shout. Their ops are massively down so might be a good opportunity for a good deal and still plenty of gaps in services from there. Few French routes, northern Spain, Scandinavia. All good opportunities.

Becoming a feeder airline for Star Alliance at LHR isnít going to work. Flybe1 failed trying it. BMI didnít succeed doing it. Virgin couldnít make it work.

toledoashley 28th Apr 2021 11:32

I absolutely agree - trying to play the connection card at Heathrow and Manchester doesn't sound like a sound model. Agree with LCY and maybe places like SOU, EXE, NWI, DSA where there are gaps for an airline with smaller aircraft. France would surely be on the cards, maybe Holland, Germany, ski flights to Switzerland (Berne?) and as you said, Northern Spain.

caaardiff 28th Apr 2021 13:44

CWL is crying out for someone to cover EDI, DUB, CDG and JER. Given the Welsh Government and CWL were willing to fork out for Project blackbird, and CWL-EDI has regularly been noted as one of the biggest Ex Flybe routes still not taken up, I'm sure a deal can be done. The issues before were they were operated by the Embraer at probably too high frequencies to protect the yield (sometimes 3 daily).

SWBKCB 28th Apr 2021 13:49

Do I still get £200 when I pass go, or are we playing a different game? :ok:

OzzyOzBorn 28th Apr 2021 13:50

toledoashley

Connecting traffic was 'icing on the cake' for FlyBe at MAN. P2P was the higher volume 'bread and butter'. Plenty of P2P business still to compete for in that market. Probably an element of interline business as an incremental top-up too. But P2P demand will determine whether any revised business model will stand or fall at MAN.

D9009 28th Apr 2021 15:58

Connecting only works if you can keep to schedule.

BACsuperVC10 28th Apr 2021 16:52

ATNotts

LHR-LPL could be good if we get out of the covid crisis and UK bound tourism returns. The city is a big tourist destination for overseas visitors, however can't see many purely domestic passengers now as the train is so fast. Or LPL-CDG is available as EasyJet appear to have suddenly dropped it.

cavokblues 28th Apr 2021 17:31

Surely some opportunities at East Midlands to Amsterdam, Glasgow, Edinburgh? Even down to Newquay etc.

I wouldn't want to go into a price war with another airline or against the train at the moment in this environment, that could be a blood bath.

BHX5DME 28th Apr 2021 17:36

I am hoping that BHX will be their main focus and main base as so many unserved routes and BHX was their biggest base.

davidjohnson6 28th Apr 2021 17:44

BHX5DME - would the fact that you live in/near Bimringham have anything to do with your preference of BHX as Flybe's main focus ?

Jamie2009 28th Apr 2021 18:04

Defo, was the most profitable base with lots of Dash engineers plus it had a hangar.....

I wouldn’t put cash on Exeter as the HQ but who knows

Albert Hall 28th Apr 2021 20:46

From the little I'm hearing, BHX5DME may well get their wish. It sounds as though BHX is going to be the HQ and the largest single base. EXT doesn't seem to feature at all. Don't know routes before anyone asks!


Rivet Joint 28th Apr 2021 22:15

Amazing to see some of the suggestions on here like CWF, EMA, NQY etc. There is a reason regional flights have never worked from these airports and the more BE got involved with them the more it tipped them over the edge. If they had any sense they would go back to key bases when they arrived on the scene like BHX, SOU, EXT etc and just grow them. You donít need to open up routes from more than one airport in a region. Air Baltic have shown what you can achieve by building bases at 3 less fashionable bases around a single fleet type. When BE were most successful it was because their fleet was just the q400 with the odd cheap 146 on top.

if they want to be ambitious then they should mirror David Neelemanís business model and serve secondary cities that the big boys will never touch. Last time I checked his record of Westjet, JetBlue and Azul isnít bad evidence of this business model. Watch his new airline Breeze be another success. Alas the mystery 20 A220 order was yet more for Breeze, now 80 in total on order. No reason someone in Europe could not copy this model. Not saying BE are the ones that are going to do it though. Personally I think something stinks about the whole thing but I wish them luck as they did serve a purpose that remains unfulfilled.

cavokblues 28th Apr 2021 22:45

Problem is most of their key routes at their old key bases at Southampton, Exeter and Brum have been snapped up by competitors.

What are these secondary routes where you think they might be successful? I personally would have said Flybe operated a lot of secondary routes last time out.

I'm genuinely fascinated to see what their proposed new operation will look like.

irishlad06 29th Apr 2021 05:51

After BHX, BHD was one of the more profitable bases however a lot of the routes from BHD have been snapped up already, granted not at the frequency that flybe flew but it would still act as a barrier to entry. There is still some potential - Manchester was 7/8 per day at its best along with BHX 7/8 per day. LCY finished up at 7 per day and apparently the most profitable route on the network as they had a load of contracts on the route. You were unable to get a seat on the day for anything under £400 on way on most occasions. (Weekends were quieter)

cumbrianboy 2nd May 2021 09:12

The EI regional base at BHD will give a decent schedule, MAN will be 5 a day for example, and now BA Cityflyer on LCY. You really can't judge the current frequencies against what FlyBe did in 2019 as COVID is the reason the flights are not running, I really do think from May 17th, and more so from June that there will be a ramp up in both flights and more importantly passenger numbers ...

there are still big gaps left in many ex FlyBe bases, even some of the ones people dismiss like CWL and DSA, FlyBe in those bases doing sunshine routes was always questionable, but I hear some of the key regional routes (like AMS, BHD etc) did well for them.

BHX5DME 2nd May 2021 11:16

I think FlyBe2 will be BHX/MAN and maybe SOU bases to start with

ATNotts 2nd May 2021 11:50

cavokblues

That would be a good strategy.

Plane mad 134 2nd May 2021 12:56

Well at this moment, it actually looks like EDI/ABZ will be 2 of the bases. They received the slots for EDI/ABZ-LHR and that will need at least a based aircraft at each.

ETOPS 2nd May 2021 13:27


at least a based aircraft at each.
Nope - BHX EDI is unserved thus aircraft and crews can be rotated in and out W style by operating that route.

cavokblues 2nd May 2021 13:32

Plane mad 134

Not so sure they have. The old airline won grandfathering rights and because the decision to revoke the OL has been appealed it's yet to be revoked. Therefore, it's my understand it's the old airline which has the slots, not the new airline.

They might still get them but that depends on how their appeal goes.

bean 3rd May 2021 11:17

Completely wrong. New Flybe now has the slots

Albert Hall 3rd May 2021 14:08

Bean, thatís not completely true either. It has the summer slots. It has yet to obtain the winter season slots.

fjencl 3rd May 2021 14:18

Any jobs getting advertised yet ?

devon_guy 3rd May 2021 16:32

They're advertising for CC based in Edinburgh.

Whispering Giant 3rd May 2021 16:52

Devonguy, Having seen the online advert, I donít think it is a genuine advert, as it refers to a online portal on the website to apply and currently their is no online portal on the website as the website says coming soon, also the former COO sent out a message earlier this year to say that they had become aware of a Fake advert asking for Cabin crew applications for Edinburgh and a couple of other former Flybe bases.
As far as Iím aware they still arenít recruiting yet.

cavokblues 3rd May 2021 17:39

I've just read the CAA's revoke decision again.

My understanding from that document is the EU considers the new Flybe as a legal continuation of the old Flybe, hence why they have the grandfathering rights and the slots. But that decision seems very much dependent on them winning their appeal against the decision by the CAA to revoke the OL. If they lose it then the CAA say as much in their appeal that slots cannot be transferred. The CAA also appear to say they've had assurances from the administrators no tickets will be sold etc until the issue is resolved. Whether that holds any sway now parts of the company have been sold I'm unsure!

I'm no legal expert whatsoever, just trying to work out what is going on! Interesting to see what happens from here....

Dorking 4th May 2021 09:25

Anybody know when the outcome of that appeal is likely to be known?

devon_guy 4th May 2021 15:26

Whispering Giant

Ahh ok, thanks for the info. I did think it seemed a bit odd.


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