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The Lower Thames Crossing will likely be open towards the end of this decade. That will give a crossing from Gravesend to TIlbury as well as an upgraded road network around there. This will mean any freight headed north won't even need to go via the Dartford crossing.
Lets not forget Tilbury and Thamesport are both busy sea freight ports out in the Estuary and although they are not as far as Manston it isn't much by road. Seeing how freight moves around the country via distribution centres only to sometimes end up not far from where it started I don't see the issue. There is also a new station nearby and the possibility of rail freight should it prove to be a success. With more imports/exports to places other than the EU post Brexit I think it could be a success and hope it is. |
Originally Posted by felixflyer
(Post 11281906)
The Lower Thames Crossing will likely be open towards the end of this decade. That will give a crossing from Gravesend to TIlbury as well as an upgraded road network around there. This will mean any freight headed north won't even need to go via the Dartford crossing.
Lets not forget Tilbury and Thamesport are both busy sea freight ports out in the Estuary and although they are not as far as Manston it isn't much by road. Seeing how freight moves around the country via distribution centres only to sometimes end up not far from where it started I don't see the issue. There is also a new station nearby and the possibility of rail freight should it prove to be a success. With more imports/exports to places other than the EU post Brexit I think it could be a success and hope it is. First, ocean freight isn't as time sensitive at air cargo, so being close to the markets isn't so important, and the UK is short of deep sea port capacity, unlike our airports, which with the exception of LHR and LGW most will have capacity to absorb the potential growth of pure cargo (non integrator) services. Second, I admire your optimism regarding the projected new Thames road crossing. For those of us living outside the Southeast that is way overdue and might actually give us access to the short sea ports and Eurotunnel without encountering the M25. However I a yet to see so much as a sod being turned, and no evidence whatsoever of any bridge or tunnel construction so, and I would love to be proven wrong, I really doubt whether this essential piece of infrastructure will be in situ before the end of this decade. Third, there is absolutely no evidence that there will be a move from European trade to oceanic trade; at least no more than there would have been had we remained in the EU. And anyway, there is no guarantee that any of this supposed extra trade would be suitable to be flown. If money is to be invested in air cargo facilities in UK it perhaps needs to be in central and northern England rather than yet more capacity into the southeast where land prices and labour costs are exponentially higher. |
The UK is small, nowhere is really far enough away from its final location to make it an issue, perhaps if we were talking about Wick you might have a point. There is high-speed rail and dual carriageway to the M2. Planners in other areas of the world would laugh at the thought that Manston is too far from the network to be viable.
LTC is progressing now with the project out for tender and the DCO going in later this year. Work is due to start in 2025 and it is badly needed to reduce pressure on the Dartford crossing. In terms of building in the north rather than expensive SE. Thanet is far from being an affluent London suburb. It is an area badly in need of investment and jobs and this airport would do wonders for the area. I get your point about building a freight hub in the midlands or expanding EMA, but building any new runway is something that could take decades of consultations and still never be approved. At Manston, we have a long runway, taxiways, space for freight warehousing and distribution, an adjacent rail line, a local population largely on-side, and large unemployment in the area. When you look at it like that there isn't a better place really. We will likely lose it under another housing estate otherwise. If private investment has been raised and they want to make a go of it then good on them IMO. |
In my humble opinion these people are living in never never land. Thinking they are going to get over 50 flights per week they will be lucky to get 10.
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Originally Posted by compton3bravo
(Post 11282010)
In my humble opinion these people are living in never never land. Thinking they are going to get over 50 flights per week they will be lucky to get 10.
I take @felixflyer's point that it is private money so the public purse won't suffer with this venture, but when private businesses fail their is always collateral damage to suppliers and hapless employees who often through no fault of their own have been sold a pup. |
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Looks like they want to copy the Southend model:
RiverOak director Tony Freudmann told KentOnline: “Looking at the way the passenger market is going, we are confident we can persuade one or more low-cost carriers to base their planes here. It does not work for us if they fly in just once a day because that is not economic. If they base three or four planes at Manston, we will have rotations three or four times a day, as they have at Southend. That will cover our costs and bring passenger footfall through the terminal all day and every day. “We will reinstate the twice daily KLM service to Amsterdam Schiphol that we had before and that will give business people in particular access to almost anywhere in the world.” But freight services would have to be established first. “You can’t have unconditional discussions when you haven’t got a DCO,” Freudmann reportedly said. “What we do know is that [airlines] are very interested; they run feeder services from other regional airports. If you take operators like Ryanair and EasyJet, their problem is that at Gatwick, Luton and Stansted, there are no more slots between 6am and 7am. If you can’t take off before 7am, it compromises the efficiency of the day; so they base their planes at Southend; the same will be at Manston. It works very well for them because they capture the global market, particularly for business people who do not like Heathrow. We are confident it will work again. We have been in limbo. Now that is over we can resume these conversations, as well as those we have been having with cargo operators.” |
I get the impression Tony Freudmann has not got a scooby-doo what is going on at Southend or any other airports, which makes me wonder what is this all about.
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I think you're half right.
I get the impression Tony Freudmann has not got a scooby-doo |
There is a reason why the major distribution hubs are in a particular area of the Midlands. From there almost all of England and Wales can be reached out and back by a truck within permitted driving hours. A hub around the fringes of the country makes no sense.
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Originally Posted by inOban
(Post 11283696)
There is a reason why the major distribution hubs are in a particular area of the Midlands. From there almost all of England and Wales can be reached out and back by a truck within permitted driving hours. A hub around the fringes of the country makes no sense.
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Originally Posted by asdf1234
(Post 11283760)
It makes perfect sense to service London, especially overnight perishables, which can take longer to get into London from Heathrow than from an operational Manston. The London market is huge and stands heads and shoulders above any other UK metropolitan area. Landing-to-truck-leaving-the-airport times of less than 1 hour are attractive to the fresh food markets and restaurant trade.
Anyway you can't make a business case out of a few weekly fruit and veg flights, there needs to be much more to make a viable operation. |
£500m of whose money is to be wasted on this folly?
Most perishables are brought in via the belly holds of airliners into the London area and elsewhere. Mind you a 5x daily to Kigali might work...... |
Less than an hour to Spiralfields market (North of the river) in less than hour, are you serious! Please can we get realistic here, there is a lot of freight flights already operating into other London airports especially Stansted p!us as somebody has already mentioned a large amount of underbelly freight. Plus talking about passenger flights give us a break it hasn't got a very big catchment area, an awful lot of water surrounding it. Rant over.
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Regarding Stansted, according to the Airport Co-ordination web site there is a cap on the annual number of cargo air transport movements of 20,500 which averages around 28 departures and 28 arrivals per day. I think this total is more or less fully utilised by Fedex, UPS etc so maybe this limit could benefit Manston in attracting more cargo flights to SE England.
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Originally Posted by DC3 Dave
(Post 11283627)
I get the impression Tony Freudmann has not got a scooby-doo what is going on at Southend or any other airports, which makes me wonder what is this all about.
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I see all the usual doom and gloom merchants have come out to play.
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Originally Posted by Paradism
(Post 11285758)
I see all the usual doom and gloom merchants have come out to play.
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May I add common sense which seems sadly lacking in the UK at the present time.
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I wonder who the consultants are feeding the frenzy?
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