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-   -   Eastern Airways-2 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/599820-eastern-airways-2-a.html)

Fletch 6th Sep 2017 09:46

Eastern Airways-2
Flybe delays & cancellations: teething troubles or a sign of things to come? | Shetland News

Strange quotes from the flybe chap. Soo.. Eastern crews lack the experience compared to Loganair, couldn't hack it on the day so didn't land is what he thinks :ugh: Also, there's a shortage of crews so this could be the norm for the next 2 months... Quite a unique USP there! Can't see that driving business.
If he's not going to admit commercial have messed up with the aeroplane type, at least he could have thanked an experienced crew for operating in challenging weather conditions (yes it's a daily event there however it's still challenging), but safety being their number one priority choose correctly to divert.
Well done to the crews for showing more professionalism, experience and common sense than these three.

oapilot 6th Sep 2017 09:58

Well said. Hope the crew weren't rewarded with a "lack of moral fibre" speech.

This also implies that Flybe pilots are going to operate Easterns 170. Had heard a rumour that they were lending some spare 195 pilots to cover crew shortages, anyone able to confirm this?

Reversethrustset 6th Sep 2017 11:00

Nothing heard from inside Flybe.

Harry Wayfarers 6th Sep 2017 11:09

Iím no genius, but when youíre missing an airplane itís fairly obvious no one is going anywhere.Ē
He's right, he's not a genius, it's an aeroplane mate :)

jamestkirk 6th Sep 2017 17:26

It's funny but sad at the same time. Flybe has good intentions but Eastern did and will let them and their pax down. The moronic EA commercial department probably and again incompetently thought that pax would prefer a jet. Anyone will tell you the locals have been travelling on that route for decades and don't give a Sh&t as long as it's reliable. All of us know that bit EA will ignore that as they seem to know better.
Most EA pilots (who have not left) are very experienced on the shetlands. And I would not be surprised if many of them raised the issue of wind shear detectors on the EMB. And I would totally not be surprised if their opinions and professional judgments were completely ignored by some elements at HUY who have no conception of reality.

In the end and most importantly it will be the customers who suffer. Followed by the EA crews (the ones left that I know) who are very competent at what they do. And of course Flybe, who obviously want it to work.

SealinkBF 6th Sep 2017 19:06

I disagree completely that Flybe have good intentions.

Good intentions would have maintained the codeshare with Loganair.

Rivet Joint 6th Sep 2017 19:18

Apologies if I have missed it, but who made the decision to end the franchise with Logan? Was it BE or Logan?

Reversethrustset 6th Sep 2017 19:22

Get over it SealinkBF. There's clearly reasons why the codeshare with Loganair has ceased. I'd rather we weren't into bed with any of them but it's not what I want that counts. End of the day it's called business. Loganair need Flybe as much as Flybe need them, probably not at all.

jamestkirk 6th Sep 2017 20:01

Yes. You are right. It's just going to be a competition between all three of them. I wonder who will win:O
Sealink. Their intentions are to create business and profit, which is good. The reasons they left the agreement with Loganair; I have heard rumours, but I could not comment as I really don't know.
As I said before, in the end it's the passengers and us as flight crew who may suffer from incompetency.
I'm not biased. I worked for Eastern and the crews are just brilliant. I know, work and done type ratings with Loganair people who are again, lovely, talented people. Flybe crew are just the same.
My point is only aimed at the senior management who think and believe they are aviation royalty with an intellectual finger on the pulse of aviation, but turn out to be nothing more than vermin road kill.
Is that a bit strong.

Flightrider 6th Sep 2017 21:29

Jamest - I think it fair to say that I've met a relatively small number of people from each of the pilot and airline management fraternity over the years who might class as vermin roadkill, but most in both walks of life have been decent people trying to do a job to the best of their abilities - which have also varied. Those who fall into the vermin roadkill category tend to have one thing in common - they think that each could run an airline without the other. Management-hating pilots and pilot-hating management are not good, for the truth is that both groups are absolutely necessary for an airline to function.

Just going back to the Shetland items posted earlier...

Flybe man:

He said that wind direction was a factor along with wind speed, but rather than a systemic issue it was something he hopes will be remedied “as the operators on the jet aircraft become accustomed to the airport and get comfortable with the length of the runway and the approach".

“It’s more of a teething issue [than anything else],” he told Shetland News. “Loganair pilots at this stage would have more experience operating [in and out of Sumburgh], but they will rapidly develop that expertise.
And the report from the passenger on the flight in the other article linked:

A few minutes into the landing sequence, the pedal was back to the floor and I briefly thought I could hear some noise from the turbines. The captain came over the tannoy and announced that wind conditions had exceeded the airplane's limits and we would have to circle.

"Exceeded limits" I thought to myself; visions of an American-style hurricane was currently underway beneath me. The captain then came back on the tannoy and announced the winds were a constant 38kts, which prevented, by law, the airplane to land at Sumburgh.
So either a/ the Flybe spokesman is a total ignoramus when it comes to aircraft operating limits and thinks this is an issue of pilot experience or b/ he is openly suggesting that as the pilots gain more experience at LSI then they'll become prepared to bust minima? I hope not and am sure both Eastern and Loganair would have something to say about that. Either way, this bloke should not be let near a media interview to talk about operational stuff, surely?

jamestkirk 6th Sep 2017 21:51

I know what your saying but please;

None of that I said, I know a bit strong, is aimed at any of the flight crew. And actually at some of the management. I have always maintained that the DFO there (EA) is a great guy. And just to clarify that the strong classification I wrote is not in any way towards anyone at Logan or Flybe.
Its a pretty safe bet I meant an individual at EA that has cost the company adversely millions. If your at EA then you know who I am referring to. So my meaning was very specific.
And yes, I agree, there are great people out there doing great work in a demanding and sh/t industry. I really like and respect the people in the airline I work for now.
My point was that when you see shear and unswearving incompetence getting away with murder for years whilst the talented people on the coal face are being treated with contempt; it's a bit pants.

Flightrider 6th Sep 2017 22:32

jamest - yes, i know what you're saying!

oapilot 6th Sep 2017 23:27

I'm curious as to the benefit to Eastern in all of this. OK, if they succeed in getting the routes to a profit that's an obvious win. But...
They didn't have the crews to run the pre-franchise operation.
They are wetleasing in multiple aircraft to plug the gaps in their schedule created by the increased workload involved in the franchise.
The franchise routes are too thin for multiple carriers, so it's going to come down to who has the deepest pockets, and I don't see Loganair giving up their routes in a hurry.
None of this can be great for an airline which posted a loss last year, as it must be costing a fortune. Unless Flybe are really bankrolling the whole thing.
Would love to know who phoned who first, but suspect that's another question with an answer that depends which side of the fence you are on.

Harry Wayfarers 7th Sep 2017 07:41

They're applying band aid's to an injury that needs major surgery!

01475 7th Sep 2017 08:50

If there's one thing an airline that charges what Eastern does needs to be it's reliable.

SealinkBF 7th Sep 2017 14:04

Originally Posted by Rivet Joint (Post 9884182)
Apologies if I have missed it, but who made the decision to end the franchise with Logan? Was it BE or Logan?

Each airline claims they ended it.

TartinTon 7th Sep 2017 19:44

Flybe wanted to jack up the franchise fee and Loganair didn't think it was worth it.....depends which side of the fence you are on I suppose...did Flybe push the amount up so far that they knew they wouldn't pay it or did they just screw up?

01475 7th Sep 2017 22:22

I keep wondering what a flyBe website user is going to think if they come across an Eastern fare. The website probably doesn't attract people that want to pay Eastern fares, and unsuspecting users coming across them first time around (possibly also applicable to Blue Islands fares but maybe less so) might not hang about.

Would someone who came across Eastern's Southampton - Rodez or Belfast - Newcastle fare hang around to look at Southampton - Toulouse, or Belfast - Leeds? Or would they run a long distance and quickly?

I'm wondering if they should have created a different brand for Eastern flights; flyBE executive or something?

RAFAT 7th Sep 2017 22:29

jamestkirk - I know both of those you speak of and totally agree with your character assessments of them. I agree that the second person you mention MUST have cost the company millions in the past and it's shocking that he's still there and allowed to play such a big part!! :mad:

Flightrider - I came to the same a) & b) conclusions as you after reading the comments of the Flybe spokesman and agree that he shouldn't be let near the media again until he expands his aircraft and operational knowledge.

SealinkBF 8th Sep 2017 13:20

I have to say I'd rather be on this aircraft going to Shetland...!!


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