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-   -   Manchester-2 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/599775-manchester-2-a.html)

Yeehaw22 20th Nov 2020 08:12


Originally Posted by CWL757 (Post 10930597)
​​​​​​That's how nearly every scrapyard does it. If anything that was quite a neat chop.

No it doesn't. Yes there are many methods that would leave a rougher cut but they wouldn't be done with personnel on the wing and access equipment close by. And as mentioned potential damage to the apron. The more normal approach with manual cutting like that would be to have it slung with a crane.

Am more surprised at the airport authority allowing it done in that way considering they are among the most strict airports I've been airside at for airside safety rules.

​​​​

chaps1954 20th Nov 2020 08:19


brian_dromey 20th Nov 2020 09:49

Why is this one being scrapped at MAN? Was this the aircraft under maintenance at the time of the TCX collapse? I know it's not the youngest frame out there, but it seems odd that the aircraft would have missing parts and/or documentation that would prevent it being flown away for dismantling? Ultimately I guess it was cheaper to cut it up in-situ than return it to some sort of flyable condition?

zfw 20th Nov 2020 13:16


Originally Posted by brian_dromey (Post 10930836)
Why is this one being scrapped at MAN? Was this the aircraft under maintenance at the time of the TCX collapse? I know it's not the youngest frame out there, but it seems odd that the aircraft would have missing parts and/or documentation that would prevent it being flown away for dismantling? Ultimately I guess it was cheaper to cut it up in-situ than return it to some sort of flyable condition?

All 3 of the original Airtours ones are being scrapped Brian, GMLJL,GMDBD,GOMYT, they have underfloor toilets so it makes them non standard for most airlines coupled with that they are more than 20 years old. It would have taken to much money to recertify them to flying condition having stood around since Setember last year.

irishlad06 20th Nov 2020 13:33


Originally Posted by Yeehaw22 (Post 10930762)
No it doesn't. Yes there are many methods that would leave a rougher cut but they wouldn't be done with personnel on the wing and access equipment close by. And as mentioned potential damage to the apron. The more normal approach with manual cutting like that would be to have it slung with a crane.

Am more surprised at the airport authority allowing it done in that way considering they are among the most strict airports I've been airside at for airside safety rules.

​​​​

the breaking up of the aircraft is being completed in the old Thomas cook hangar apron - not on the main airside apron. It is actually all Landside.

Skipness One Foxtrot 20th Nov 2020 14:52

Anyone know who the Thomas Cook hangar is going to? This was originally built for BA then went to FLS? Is that about right?

The96er 20th Nov 2020 16:14


Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot (Post 10931022)
Anyone know who the Thomas Cook hangar is going to? This was originally built for BA then went to FLS? Is that about right?

The TCX hangar was originally built for, I believe FFV aerotech (Someone correct me if I'm wrong). The old 'BA' hangar, of similar design, but about 1/3rd size sits to the south of the TCX hangar. Last I heard was that Dublin Aerospace were looking at the TCX hangar, but this was pre-pandemic and not heard anything since March. The old BA hangar, latterly used by Air Livery is due for demolision at somepoint.

MAN777 20th Nov 2020 18:07

THG were briefing the media they were going to base their own freighters at MAN, one of the CGI photos showed an aircraft in front of a large hangar !

SWBKCB 20th Nov 2020 18:43


Originally Posted by MAN777 (Post 10931153)
THG were briefing the media they were going to base their own freighters at MAN, one of the CGI photos showed an aircraft in front of a large hangar !

THG - weren't they meant to be up and running by now?

roverman 20th Nov 2020 19:40


Originally Posted by The96er (Post 10931081)
The TCX hangar was originally built for, I believe FFV aerotech (Someone correct me if I'm wrong). The old 'BA' hangar, of similar design, but about 1/3rd size sits to the south of the TCX hangar. Last I heard was that Dublin Aerospace were looking at the TCX hangar, but this was pre-pandemic and not heard anything since March. The old BA hangar, latterly used by Air Livery is due for demolision at somepoint.


Almost right, 96er, the hangar was originally opened as Qualitair in 1989 but not long after the name changed as you say, to FFV Aerotech. I think it was a merger or re-branding thing.

eggc 21st Nov 2020 17:34

Not seen this on this thread and borrowed from a post on BHX thread by nwoody2001

Manchester - the ACL Slot report has been release and shown the following airline have applied for the following:

= Aer LIngus - a 4 a/c base operating long haul routes to the USA (1x A330 and 3x A321LR)
= Wizz Air - a 4 a/c base operating across europe (4x A321s)
= Ryanair - increase their base at MAN by adding an additional 5x a/c to their existing base

Not mentioned above is the proposed increase for S21 by EZY by 4 a/c at MAN.

Obviously regularly slots are returned, but with rumour of some of the deals offered to the likes of RYR and EZY by MAG, links now with WIZZ surfacing and rumours of EZY pulling LPL...is MAN aggresively going for LPL to replace to some what has been lost ?

To be honest under current circumstances does it really make sense to EZY and RYR to have bases 30 miles apart ? If Wizz did open MAN would same apply to them ?

Is this possibly something we'll repeatedly see across Europe as airlines consolidate thier positions until things return to at least something like normal ?

Is there significant cause for LPL to be very worried ?

eye2eye5 21st Nov 2020 18:35

It’s a really good question and maybe the follow on would be:
- would the regulator ( CAA) feel that it’s in the public interest?
- if so, will there be further consolidation in the North, maybe loss of DSA, HUY, EMA freight only?
- NCL to be decimated by EDI?
- would the regulator then add controls to car parking charges, max time from chocks to baggage on carousel (customer metrics in a monopolistic airport environment) etc?

Perhaps post Covid there will be major structural changes, but perhaps with less choice there needs to be more regulation.

AndrewH52 21st Nov 2020 19:13

I think the EZY/RYR ‘no fees’ rumour is adolescent mischief making. It would surely be against competition law both in terms of aggressively targeting a competitor causing it to experience financial loss, but also because it would be giving two airlines unfair subsidies compared to any other existing operator at Manchester flying to the same destination.

As for WZZ, it is actually WUK that has applied for slots and IF they were to set up a base it would presumably be yet more bucket and spade routes as with Luton and Doncaster. In any event, it may well just be a negotiating tactic to extract better terms from Liverpool.

Time, as ever, will reveal all.

MARK 101 21st Nov 2020 19:49


Originally Posted by eggc (Post 10931730)
Not seen this on this thread and borrowed from a post on BHX thread by nwoody2001

Manchester - the ACL Slot report has been release and shown the following airline have applied for the following:

= Aer LIngus - a 4 a/c base operating long haul routes to the USA (1x A330 and 3x A321LR)
= Wizz Air - a 4 a/c base operating across europe (4x A321s)
= Ryanair - increase their base at MAN by adding an additional 5x a/c to their existing base

Not mentioned above is the proposed increase for S21 by EZY by 4 a/c at MAN.

Obviously regularly slots are returned, but with rumour of some of the deals offered to the likes of RYR and EZY by MAG, links now with WIZZ surfacing and rumours of EZY pulling LPL...is MAN aggresively going for LPL to replace to some what has been lost ?

To be honest under current circumstances does it really make sense to EZY and RYR to have bases 30 miles apart ? If Wizz did open MAN would same apply to them ?

Is this possibly something we'll repeatedly see across Europe as airlines consolidate thier positions until things return to at least something like normal ?

Is there significant cause for LPL to be very worried ?

Have felt all along that Covid would reset Aviation back a few years. Think the airlines will be looking for deals and also where they can make higher returns. I believe the big airports MAN and LHR especially will be where the first growth will be. Actually believe the more regional airports will take longer to recover

chaps1954 21st Nov 2020 20:59

Yes I agree Mark101 I think we may well see 2 or 3 airports go to the wall or drop out of the airline market

Ian

OzzyOzBorn 21st Nov 2020 22:02


It’s a really good question and maybe the follow on would be:
- would the regulator ( CAA) feel that it’s in the public interest?
- if so, will there be further consolidation in the North, maybe loss of DSA, HUY, EMA freight only?
- NCL to be decimated by EDI?
- would the regulator then add controls to car parking charges, max time from chocks to baggage on carousel (customer metrics in a monopolistic airport environment) etc?
This really comes down to whether you want to live in a free-market economy or a command economy. In a free-market economy, businesses are free to compete with each other for customers. In a command economy, state officials dictate outcomes. I'm a free-market advocate myself, though I note the arguments in favour of both systems. Our airports are generally free to compete with each other for business, and this process has generally produced good outcomes for the travelling public. Liverpool has done well in competing for the attentions of Ryanair, EasyJet, Wizz and Blue Air. They also won a promise of business from Adria Airways over the Manchester option ... though that carrier failed before anything came of it. No complaints from MAN about "unfair competition" in any of these instances, though when it is MAN which looks to have the upper hand, cries of 'foul' come flying out of Merseyside. No, the free market works both ways. None of the parties should have their hands tied in bidding for business.

And indeed, this process is not just about the winners. Ryanair has done well out of playing off MAN / LPL / LBA against each other. EasyJet has played off MAN and LPL. And, as cited upthread, Wizz has form for flirting with an unserved airport to secure better terms at their preferred base of choice. Could this be happening again? We don't know, but it remains a possibility. If they end up choosing to expand at LPL / DSA, MAN will have to accept that: it is a competitive free market outcome. But the reverse is also true.

Whatever your ambitions for your preferred local airport may be, it is a fact that this process of competing for business results in lower fares for consumers. And that is what the competition authorities like to see. MAN is doing nothing wrong in competing for business with neighbouring airports. And, conversely, neither are they in bidding against MAN.

And as for the airlines: they've never needed improved terms from suppliers more than they do now.

Sioltach Dubh Glas 22nd Nov 2020 12:49

No matter which side of the Mersey you may be from - Manchester is technically on the South bank - can I commend the above post for its analysis of the present situation and the clear way in which the options open to both airlines and airports are explored.

2021 will be a year that none of us will have experienced before - both physically and, I do believe, emotionally. It will be as if a world war has been raging, and indeed in many ways it has been. All I can hope for is that I, together with all those on this site, survive and are once again able to enjoy, in due course, the ability to travel from an airport that is within our reach - without having to travel down to the Big Smoke.

Stay safe and, if temporarily on furlough or unemployed, I trust that there will be a positive outlook on life.

MAN777 22nd Nov 2020 13:46

Hi

I think Manchester is actually on the north bank.
The Mersey starts in Stockport, and skirts a smallish portion of South Greater Manchester. Manchester and the vast majority of GM is north of the Mersey👍

Sioltach Dubh Glas , 22nd Nov 2020 13:49
No matter which side of the Mersey you may be from - Manchester is technically on the South bank - can I commend the above post for its analysis of the present situation and the clear way in which the options open to both airlines and airports are explored.

zfw 22nd Nov 2020 14:03


Originally Posted by eggc (Post 10931730)
Not seen this on this thread and borrowed from a post on BHX thread by nwoody2001

Manchester - the ACL Slot report has been release and shown the following airline have applied for the following:

= Aer LIngus - a 4 a/c base operating long haul routes to the USA (1x A330 and 3x A321LR)
= Wizz Air - a 4 a/c base operating across europe (4x A321s)
= Ryanair - increase their base at MAN by adding an additional 5x a/c to their existing base

Not mentioned above is the proposed increase for S21 by EZY by 4 a/c at MAN.

Obviously regularly slots are returned, but with rumour of some of the deals offered to the likes of RYR and EZY by MAG, links now with WIZZ surfacing and rumours of EZY pulling LPL...is MAN aggresively going for LPL to replace to some what has been lost ?

To be honest under current circumstances does it really make sense to EZY and RYR to have bases 30 miles apart ? If Wizz did open MAN would same apply to them ?

Is this possibly something we'll repeatedly see across Europe as airlines consolidate thier positions until things return to at least something like normal ?

Is there significant cause for LPL to be very worried ?

Mentioned from the 16th Nov?


chaps1954 22nd Nov 2020 14:27


Originally Posted by zfw (Post 10932254)
Mentioned from the 16th Nov?

Airport is south of Mersey as once river leaves Stockport it heads towards Chorlton before heading to westwards, its the Bolllin that runs along west side of airfield under 05 end


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