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-   -   Manchester-2 (https://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/599775-manchester-2-a.html)

Rutan16 8th Aug 2019 20:07

160 to 4 and where do they draw down these additional 321s from.

Btw BA are restoring a few rotations each day from the start of the northern winter.

imho BA really aren’t that interested in bums on seats but rather yield achieved per ticket and let’s face it current ticket prices are for on the spot/ next day travel are ludicrous.

Remember many onboard are simply connecting beyond Heathrow and the booked domestic portion of their fare could well be well below the cost base .

With high levels of connectors its inevitable the on the spot fares are so high as these are necessary to create adequate revenue and was ever thus - other than the period up to the early 2000s when the real shuttle services operated.

Today it’s not a shuttle service in any name whatsoever.

Can you walk up go straight to the gate pay there and then and board a departure within a hour - Not on your nelly !



160to4DME 8th Aug 2019 20:16

I'm fully aware of the scale on which operations plan ahead. That is why I said "One can only hope with forward planning, next year's schedule sees more A321s."

I may be giving them the benefit of doubt that domestic CE has caught them on the hop; but it is certainly working for them.

Whilst I still hold an element of grudge against them for the Terminal 3 debacle, I would still rather see whatever connectivity there is go via our national carrier than, say KLM...

FFMAN 8th Aug 2019 20:18

Oh please, not that old BA and the regions chestnut again - they don't care and haven't done for years. Not much different to AF (Paris) and KLM (Amsterdam) and remind me again how many other UAE cities Emirates flies from.
It's a specific business model which kind of works for them and BA are and shouldn't be no different. It's not a charity and it's not (thank god) a state airline aka a politician's play thing.
And the name - well it's what they inherited from the state sell off....there's nothing stopping a Manchester based airline calling itself UK International or England Airways.
Just need to get over it - Manchester's doing just fine without it.

eye2eye5 8th Aug 2019 20:22

I think you will find that if you divide the monthly CAA traffic figures for LHR by the number of seats for an A319 only, it only comes up with a load factor of circa 75%. That suggests that there are certain rotations which are very lightly loaded and some which, as reported, are full. The current operation is probably a compromise. Maybe a reduced number of rotations with larger aircraft would be more effective but at the expense of convenience.

The96er 8th Aug 2019 23:51


Originally Posted by eye2eye5 (Post 10540346)
I think you will find that if you divide the monthly CAA traffic figures for LHR by the number of seats for an A319 only, it only comes up with a load factor of circa 75%. That suggests that there are certain rotations which are very lightly loaded and some which, as reported, are full. The current operation is probably a compromise. Maybe a reduced number of rotations with larger aircraft would be more effective but at the expense of convenience.

You need to be careful when calculating the loadfactor on BA's these days as the total max config of 143 (For A319) is never used anymore due to the use of the club cabin which can vary quite a lot depending on the day. So effectivly, the loadfactor will be higher than 75% as the total available seats will be lower the more the Club cabin increases.

The LHR schedule for winter is now fixed at 7/day Mon-Fri which is a reduction of 2/day on previous years and there will be only x1 night stopping aircraft with none on Friday nights.

pilot9250 9th Aug 2019 01:59


Originally Posted by 160to4DME (Post 10540339)
I would still rather see whatever connectivity there is go via our national carrier than, say KLM...

I'm not confident I understand this point of view.

What does 'national carrier' even mean?

Is IAG British or Spanish?

Who on earth are you including in 'our'?

Do KLM fly from 4-5 times as many British airports as BA?

As a practical matter, if I want to get to Tokyo from Manchester and must transfer, should I prefer 5 flights a day from LHR or 28 a day from HKG?

FFMAN 9th Aug 2019 05:16

Quite right Turbine70 - In the UK there is thankfully no such thing as a 'national carrier'. Nor should there ever be; the concept is about as anachronistic as Dads Army.
BA in my view is a Spanish airline run by an Irishman with a rather jaundiced view of his home market - hence the OneWorld Dublin push.

I owe no loyalty to BA simply because it uses the word 'British' in its name. It doesn't need to have any 'loyalty' to Manchester or me as an airline user either - it's a commercial business and should be run as such. I rarely use BA but when I do it is a variable quality airline - sometimes very good sometimes not good - like many airlines including the Easyjets of this world.

Mr A Tis 9th Aug 2019 09:02

If I need a one stop connection, the very last choice would be BA. The merest whiff of trouble anywhere and the domestic "shuttles" especially Manchester are cancelled. Leaving you scuppered for your onward. For HKG/China Finnair is my preference, anywhere else I'd take KLM or Lufthansa any day over BA.

Skipness One Foxtrot 9th Aug 2019 09:28

Winter LHR-MAN/ABZ additions are slot sitters to protect the portfolio, they will revert to summer sun (yes, they do a LOT of that now) in the 2020 summer.
BA are a sideshow at MAN nowadays.

UnderASouthernSky 9th Aug 2019 23:21


Originally Posted by Turbine70 (Post 10540519)

As a practical matter, if I want to get to Tokyo from Manchester and must transfer, should I prefer 5 flights a day from LHR or 28 a day from HKG?

and if the single daily service from MAN-HKG doesn't suit your schedule, or if it goes tech, then what?

pilot9250 10th Aug 2019 01:15


Originally Posted by UnderASouthernSky (Post 10541301)
and if the single daily service from MAN-HKG doesn't suit your schedule, or if it goes tech, then what?

I suppose I expected that part to be picked on.

Look there are about 70 daily one stop itineraries from Manchester to Tokyo in the GDS.

What I object to is being invited to prefer BA because it is 'our' 'national carrier'

I don't agree that it is any such thing for the reasons I gave.

If you prefer via LHR on BA then fill your boots.

There is no reason why that should be artificially encouraged over all the other routes.

chaps1954 10th Aug 2019 08:01

The route you choose should be
1 it suites you route wise
2 the cost is OK
3 you are happy flying with the airline/s
What really used to annoy me when I worked in travel was the company did route deals
and they told you who your passengers had to fly with when you knew that they didn`t want to

Rutan16 10th Aug 2019 09:31


Originally Posted by UnderASouthernSky (Post 10541301)
and if the single daily service from MAN-HKG doesn't suit your schedule, or if it goes tech, then what?

Aircraft go tech , entire airline IT systems fail, weather cancels domestic connections and T5 continues to consume baggage

Oh and if the daily CX cancels depending on ticket type and status they may reroute you down to Heathrow for one of the three evening departures if capacity is available.

In the few years it’s been back as a passenger service the number of cancellations have been exceptionally low - Way below those of BA even if we include a few planned cancellations !

Cathay have served Manchester very well for both SLF and Boxes for many years.

Oh and this utter cr*p about frequency especially on long haul ( cepting the eastern seaboard) is exhausting .

Seriously a ten hour plus flight matters not a jot whether you arrive at 6.30 am or 9.00 pm the night before .

You aren’t missing a mid morning meeting either way are you

Either you pay x2 —x5 for a camp bed in a coffin and a quick taxi alternatively a nice nights sleep and preparation time in a quality hotel even possibly some hospitality with your client as well

Just about every customer/ client paying the bill won’t object to this in my experience!

BTW disruption is not unheard of at the Hong Kong end either .

Oh and those 77w frames used to Heathrow breakdown more often than the swanky new A350s

I live 8 miles north of 27L and my last Hong Kong flight was from Manchester along with colleagues from Telford and Woudenberg in Holland !









zed3 10th Aug 2019 16:20

Mr A Tis, It's not only BA that cancel. KLM will cancel from most UK airports to the Amsterdam connection if there is trouble at Schiphol, heavy wind or other weather. Got the t-shirt for that one. It seems that there is no sure way of getting airborne these days and that's without strikes, power failures, etc.

chaps1954 10th Aug 2019 16:24

Lufthansa do also infact ATC/Eurocontrol seem to ask them to cancel if the weather looks dodgy

pilot9250 13th Aug 2019 01:48


Originally Posted by zed3 (Post 10541849)
Mr A Tis, It's not only BA that cancel. KLM will cancel from most UK airports to the Amsterdam connection if there is trouble at Schiphol, heavy wind or other weather. Got the t-shirt for that one. It seems that there is no sure way of getting airborne these days and that's without strikes, power failures, etc.

I hope we can agree that BA and KLM suffering these broadly similar constraints isn't a reason to prefer or advantage BA over KLM.

zed3 13th Aug 2019 17:44

Yes Sir, we are KLM card holders, my having lived 42 years there, with plenty of friends and family, including a Dutch wife, we visit regularly. We now live on The Island and are also BA card holders, thus supporting both sides!

]

Skipness One Foxtrot 13th Aug 2019 23:18

Being rumoured on Twitter that Delta are replacing Virgin’s 3x weekly BOS with a daily B757. Any truth?

chaps1954 14th Aug 2019 07:55

In answer Skip yes daily on Manchester and also Gatwick with a B757 from May

Skipness One Foxtrot 14th Aug 2019 08:41

Good to see Delta back in a place they should never have left IMHO.


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