Why is that so hard to achieve? Just 7 arrivals a day will mean 7 departures, which equals 5110 movements per year. Job done.

The best Southend can hope for is that it will be as good as other FBO's but it won't be better. Remember some FBO's have their own immigration staff and customs while others have to ship the passengers to the passenger terminal. I would doubt Southend would have its own dedicated customs and immigration staff yet due to the cost.

Google "Signature Luton" and click on images to see what an FBO looks like without a fireplace.

Saying that there has been talk about the high FBO cost of using Luton now with some customers looking for a change of location.

LTNman

Yes, I agree with you that Signature at LTN have a superb facility that could surely hardly be bettered in terms of grandeur and opulence.

I'm sure though that there is a large segment of the market which is not really looking for that degree of luxury and might be happy with something more modest, there probably being a considerable difference in price between that and the SEN facility. As I said before I cannot see the Stobart Jet Centre making large inroads into LTN's traffic numbers but 5,000 mpa seems an achievable objective. My concern is that 'Stobart' and 'Southend' are not names that most potential users will recognise as meeting their needs adequately. It will need some heavy awareness marketing on Stobart's part to overcome this disadvantage I believe.

Regarding Customs and Immigration I don't think the pax have to be shipped to the passenger terminal for clearance at SEN although I stand open to be corrected on that one.

Yes that is the problem. Even a simple google search of "FBO's London" pulls up nothing for Southend although Lydd and Oxford appear with links.

Early days yet but maybe Stobart should let a recognised FBO take charge that will have many fingers in many pies with many contacts rather than trying to run every aspect of their Southend operation.

Signature Luton certainly looks impressive. Apart from the business-like building their facilities even include milkshakes!

Now that's an idea - Stobart should enlist the services of Rossi's Ice Cream, that'll be a crowd puller.

We know that Stobart sought interest from established FBO's in 2016. Obviously, nothing came from any discussions at that time - if indeed any interest was shown.

But one thing about Stobart, they are nothing if not stubborn. Once they decide to do something, they're like a dog with a bone.

If Northolt's runway is still due to close this year for re-build, more exec jets needing an FBO for the London area.

That's exactly what Stobart had at the launch party; an old style Rossi's vendor's tricycle.

CUSTOMS CLEARANCE AT JET CENTRE
 

This, from the Echo, appears to answer the question on customs clearance.

Southend Airport bosses said the centre is expected to cater for 5,000 flights in the next four years | Echo

Northolt is supposed to be closing temporarily in Spring 2018 but no date nor length of the closure period has been given as far as I know. Incidentally, the airfield is closed to all civilian traffic on 25th, 26th and 30th January due to 'planned power outages'.

Most sources quoted a 8 month closure - but that was before a Royal Wedding was announced just up the road!

Carlisle flights are due to commence on 3 June 2018. No news of the operator or frequencies yet. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/l...-a3746946.html

Glad to know that the government is spending my money wisely on a route when there is already an hourly train service to the capital.

Well that'll be Northolt slated for closure within 3 years then, in time honoured tradition. Mind you, always thought that Marham and Northolt would be the last 2 remaining RAF airfields; the former as Betty's own and the latter for sneaking politicians in and out on their nefarious activities!

SEN-CAX via Euston..£135.70 rtn takes just over 5 hrs....now which one I prefer

You're right mikkie4 SEN-CAX would be a good option for some. But Carlisle to London via Southend? CAX-LCY might stand a chance. Still, I'm not knocking Stobart. I certainly don't criticise them for taking advantage of whatever public funds they can get. Flights to Dublin and Belfast from CAX make more sense to me, but let's see what's on offer and at what price.

Doing a quick search for Monday 4th June, if you want to travel by train from London Euston to Carlisle during peak commuting hours (for example a day return business trip) it will cost you in excess of £200 return and take 4h 26mins each way.
Carlisle to London Euston return will cost roughly £120 and take between 4h 30 and 3h 30 (if a fast service) each way.

Looking at a potential flight from CAX to SEN, well we know that you won't have to arrive early at CAX (maybe an hour prior to your departure time tops). Then a 1h 20mins flight roughly, plus 1h 20mins max from landing at SEN (getting through terminal and catching train to Liverpool Street). That would equal a total journey time from Carlisle to Central London of roughly 3h 40mins. If the price is right it could persuade some people. I think the hassle free nature of both airports must be emphasised. So in terms of time difference a flight would be competitive.

A southerner moaning about govt spending on transport in the North? :eek:

Also at EBACE in Geneva last year. The premier meeting place for all things related to business aviation.

Stobart had a big stand and trumpeted out the usual marketing phrases of “unrivalled convenience, Apollo chopper transfers, open 24/7, 365 days a year, London 45 minutes by train, no slot restrictions, good routings to save fuel, on-site immigration”.

Yet nothing came of it, which I would take as a signal that the market doesn’t want or need your product (for whatever reason). But no, not Stobart…. They doubled down, ignoring informed feedback from industry professionals. Stubborn indeed.

As for the Jet Centre interior…. Well this perfectly shows how Stobart have no clue what a business aviation customer wants! How hard can replicating a top-tier business lounge be? FFS it’s looks like a DFS store with the "Sale ends this weekend" banner cropped out. Fireplace, carpet, marble, wood, chrome, leather… it’s a technicoloured assault on the senses. One must wonder if their feet can still touch the bottom of the pool.

On the other hand, the train gives you uninterrupted work (or relaxation) time.

That's a bit harsh FM. Most punters don't use the lounge, they walk straight through (via the baggage screen) to the aircraft. It's the pilots and hostesses that use the lounge whilst they are waiting for the punter. For them the lounge at SEN is warm, comfortable and inviting.

On the business aviation front, the proximity of the train station is an irrelevance for the passengers, nobody ever uses the train. Might be useful for the crews. Of the central London-destined or originated business aviation passengers, a fairly small proportion are heading for the City/Canary Warf/Docklands, far more heading for Kensington, Knightsbridge, Belgravia etc. - west to north-west of the centre. The drive to/from Southend is a good 35 minutes plus more to those areas vs. say Luton. Fuel price is important, outweighs any cheap landing/handling offer. Trouble is Southend has had and promoted their business aviation handling facility for many years - nothing has changed other than they now have a wood-burning stove for the crew to stare at...

fairflyer

You make a good point regarding SEN's additional driving time to the West End and that is bound to have an effect. But what is the size of the LON market in terms of business aviation - around 100,000mpa isn't it? It would seem that Stobart, internally at least, recognise their limitations by setting a target of just 5,000mpa in 4 years time.

I don't agree that "nothing has changed". It certainly has on the ground as far as the facility is concerned whether one appreciates the decor or not and what I always felt lacking in the past was the management drive and the funding to market the facility adequately. Perhaps this time that aspect will be properly managed. Time will tell.

Here's a question. Is demand growing for business aviation? I would have thought with shareholders increasingly challenging remuneration / perks for Head Honchos and senior people, and the taxman ready to jump on anyone trying to evade/avoid VAT etc when purchasing the means to fly; not forgetting a groundswell of disgust against those who prosper beyond normal folks' dreams, even when they offer little or nothing to those at the bottom of the food chain, then it would be surprising if there was huge growth in demand.

I don't know the answer, most of you will. Demand will be a key factor in SEN's prospects though.

The Carlisle based aircraft will operate the following schedule:

CAX-SEN
SEN-CAX
CAX-BHD
BHD-CAX
CAX-DUB
DUB-CAX
CAX-SEN
SEN-CAX

So it will be possible to spend the day in London/Lake District.

Ostend-Southend used to be very popular in the past.
Don't understand why nobody tried to restart the line in the past.
Ryanair tried it at Stansted a few years ago but wanted a occapancy of 80%(had a average of 70%) with timings not so favourable and with a way too large aircraft.

A ATR600 or even Embraer 195 would be more suitable for a flight under one hour.

Has it been confirmed that it will be Belfast International they will fly into from Carlisle?

They just need a bucket of horse chestnuts to roast in the fire and Southend will have cracked the FBO market.

On a serous note it does look like someones country cottage with the fireplace, log fire, furniture and decorations and not at all like an FBO. Great place to go though in the festive season if they pipe Last Christmas around the building and put up a Christmas tree.

What are the flight times ?

I'm not sure it had an occupancy as high as that. It was served by the Buzz 146s, not the 738. And fares were rarely higher than about £20.

I will correct my post as it is Belfast City airport that will be connected not Belfast International. The flight times are still to be confirmed. All that has been said is the rotations per day and that the London Airport will be SEN (surprise surprise).

In January 2009, at the time that Stobart were in the process of buying CAX, I produced for SEN a detailed proposal to connect CAX with SEN to form part of an operation similar to the above but with SEN as the radial point during the day.

CAX-SEN
SEN-AMS
AMS-SEN
SEN-CFR
CFR-SEN
SEN-AMS
AMS-SEN
SEN-CAX

Possible operators were VLM, Aer Arann or Eastern using F50, S2000 or ATR42 with flights bookable through to AMS for CAX passengers. I notice that I stated "Obviously the infrastructure for commencing services between CAX and SEN is some way from being in place ...." It's taken some time hasn't it!

Hi, need to correct you on this one.
They flew with a 737-300(or 200).

No I need to correct you. I flew on it. Twice.

Stobart (actually WA Developments) bought Carlisle airport in April 2006, and were talking about scheduled flights then (though Luton was the first proposed route). As I think DC3 Dave said, nowt but persistent!

You may be right that WA Developments, Andrew Tinkler's company, bought CAX in 2006 but I think it was sold to Stobart Group in 2009.

I thought they were all part of the same group - certainly they were talking about a Stobart HQ on site when it was bought.

My sincere apologies, you are right.
Ryanair used 21 times, in their 8 months operations at OST, a BAe 146-300 from Buzz airlines.
Mostly in October 2003.

Two airlines are in discussions with Stobart Air about the CAX services. Hopefully will be announced in the next couple of weeks.

VLM? Eastern? DAT? The latter have the right equipment and flew for Stobart previously

This is the quote from the end of last year from Stobart - I think most people (including me!) have read it as meaning initially it will be smaller than an Atr (and Stobart have previously quoted the flights as being done by an Atr-42).