Fog/Snow at Modlin
 

Just been watching flightradar, and flight FR2283 went around at 400 feet. Looks like it is diverting to Lodz.

I visited Warsaw last month, and used Ryanair's service from London Stansted (£16 return!). We were not convinced that the aircraft would land in Modlin, the fog was terrible. However we did land, which was a shame

Was hoping for a diversion into Chopin airport, save the 50 minute bus journey :uhoh:

Modlin Airport closed until at least 1st January 2013 due to runway issue confirmed in last hour.

Unsure of what is happening with FR flights, mostly going to Lodz at the moment but that is starting to fill up very quickly and can't accept more than a handful of diversions.

Remains to be seen what happens after that and in days to come. WAW of course is an option but for reasons earlier mentioned I can't see them being able to use it that much.

The runway closed by the General Office of Building Control due to its insufficient quality (construction faults). Kind of disgrace, apparently.

Ryanair have issued a statement

Lets hope that all parties work together and make sure that people are not disrupted.

One would think Wizz were expecting this to happen. Would somebody of reported it to General Office of Building Control?

Anyone think that Wizz will remain at Warsaw if they can agree a deal. One thing is for sure it will be very costly for Ryanair and they have said that flights are being sold very very low.

I would hope that was not the case. If there was a defect it should have been reported, investigated straight away and closed if necessary.

Flights are being sold for very low by both carriers to be quite honest, and Ryanair can withstand that for a lot longer than Wizz would be able to. FR are cash rich and have billions in the bank, Nobody still knows what the Wizz financial situation is as they don't publish their accounts, they just claim they had their best year last year, whatever that means.

In the first few months of WMI Wizz load factor was a decent bit higher than FR but during the first three months the gap got smaller and smaller. Since October FR has been carrying a good number of more passengers but the airport has stopped releasing average load factors so it's hard to work out exactly who is ahead since Ryanair run more weekly flights.

However it may well be beneficial for W6 to move to WAW, as this is a central airport which gives them an edge over FR. There is no doubt that FR has took a decent sized chunk of the W6 market share in the last few months, but I haven't seen any statistics on load factor to see who is winning on each particular route.

It was reported recently that Wizz made a profit of around 60 million last year. Not bad if correct but you expect better from a loco but then the market area served would not be the richest area of Europe. Wizz are not so dependent on sun routes like FR so if FR had the same level of sun routes as Wizz there profits would be a lot lower.

Do you have a source for that? They continually claim they are profitable but when they are asked to show the numbers they go very quiet and start banding phrases around but not actually mentioning any figures so until they start backing up their statements I'll be skeptical.

They claimed up until middle of 2009 they were profitable for several years when Sky Europe were on their knees. But the only accounts published to date, until mid 2009 showed that they had never made a profit and had actually made a loss in that year and had to put the repayments of debt back a few years.

I'm sure that their financial figures have improved since then without doubt, but how much is open to debate, if they are as good as you say, why not just be open about them, they're nothing to be ashamed of. Just making generic statements such as 'best year ever' and 'large profits' can mean anything, especially given what happened in 2009.l

I'd say this year has been fairly tough for them though, as it's the first time they've had any real competition from FR, up until this year the two companies kept away from each others turf.

Modlin's problems are not entirely unexpected.

1/ Construction and commission of the new airport were rushed, with associated consequences
2/ Little regard was paid to local weather conditions, with the site being prone to fog due to proximity of the river Vistule (Wisla) - as any local inhabitant would tell you
3/ The short timeframe always looked tight regarding installation and calibration of a CAT I/II ILS
4/ Modlin's Warsaw Pact-style runway was made of concrete slabs. Simply laying asphalt/tarmac on top of these (while quick and relatively cheap) does not prevent subsidence. What about the original runway's PCN? I suspect Ryanair's 737-800s and Wizzair's A320s are heavier than anything that operated on the original runway before...

Methinks Wizzair will try to return to WAW, leaving WMI (if and when it eventually reopens) with only 1 Customer airline: Ryanair.

This debacle, along with the lack of CAT II (or III) approaches except on WAW's runways 11 and 33, does not paint a very serious image of Polish aviation infrastructure or forward thinking.

Cheers :cool:

Latest Update:
Ryanair intends to divert all Warsaw flights, where possible, to Warsaw Chopin airport, until 24:00hrs Thursday 3 Jan 2013.

All passengers booked to travel between the 22/12/12 - 03/01/2013 should go directly to Warsaw Chopin Airport

Cracks on the runway and the airport will be closed a lot longer than a few days I expect. Can't see its opening until its rebuild (1000m of it anyway), a quick fix won't solve the problem.

EU Money
 

how much EU money has been wasted on this project? I would love the answer to be none but I suspect that this is not the case

And your point ?

EU infrastructure development funds are available to all projects that bother to apply including the UK !

The issue is NOT with the funding but clearly with the local project management and cost CUTTING !

It looks like pave weights have been under estimated .

Claims should ultimately be levied against private contractors !

Want some numbers

€65 million came from EU funds

Further €11.5 million from local funds.

... plus any UK contribution would be minimal, bearing in mind the British rebate to the EU budget.

Cheers :cool:

Wizz Air just sent an email that Modlin flights will continue to operate from WAW till at least 31 March, 2013.

Wonder how long will Ryanair will bare high costs of WAW before starting to cancel flights to Warsaw. I think they cannot expect to be compensated for so long - I think Modlin will not have such money.

Most probably it will be closed until May. Not only the surface must be replaced (on a good 1000 m of the runway) but the whole thing 26 cm deep. Works will start in March which will be followed by another "quick" inspection by the authorities.

Are Wizzair going to Warsaw-Chopin (WAW) permanently now? All flights until the end of the summer season are now bookable to/from WAW.

Ryanair has all flights bookable to/from WAW until 30 April before going back to WMI from 1 May. I'd expect that maybe to be delayed again but seems FR is still committed to returning to WMI. Not so sure about W6 now.

It could be a perfect excuse for Wizz to transfer their operation to Warsaw-Chopin, they seem to be trying to swap routes at the moment to primary airports in-order to compete with Ryanair e.g. Glasgow Intl, Milan-Malpensa.

From Wizz Air website:

Could mean two things:
1 - Wizz want to move back, trying to get a better deal at WAW than they had.
2 - Airport to remained closed until 26 October and Ryanair havn't updated there site.

The airport is unlikely to open until at least November at this point, but it could be December or even 2014 at this point according to what you believe.

The Wizz agreement with Chopin, according to some respected Polish language sites, has a clause that should Modlin open before the 26th October they will switch back earlier than this date. Both airlines it would seem are committed to returning to WMI when it (eventually) reopens.

Ryanair are no doubt going to extend their presence too, they most likely want to understand how long it will be best to do so. Ryanair were first to extend with Wizz following a few days later on some occasions, the opposite on others.

I doubt either carrier is particularly happy about it since for the airline it would be much more expensive to operate at WAW. Sure Wizz operated there before, but when they did so they had no competition from FR. The competition has pushed Wizz prices down and FR has been selling tickets at very low prices too so I doubt either airline was on a high margin at Modlin, let alone at Chopin.

The airport is up and running. Well, just one or two charter flights landed there so far, but never mind, it's ready. And...And the reason is here:Negotiating, huh?:rolleyes: Presumably something like: "pay us for flying there or you'll be left with an empty airport". Anyway, MOL is expected to come to Warsaw to put it in more concrete words.

Modlin bus - pretty good !!
 

October 2014 : I've just travelled Ryanair (Stansted/Modlin) and Modlin Airport is compact and totally serviceable.


The Modlin bus runs non-stop from the airport to Warsaw where it terminates at the Palace of Science and Culture. The journey takes around 45 mins.


Three things I'd suggest :

• buy your ticket online before you leave home as it's cheaper (you could save up to £5.00 per ticket). If you buy in advance and online it could cost as little as 6 zlotys for a one-way ticket, compared to (up to) 33 zlotys if you buy on arrival at Modlin Airport,
• confirm the return Warsaw/Modlin timetable when on the bus FROM the airport as the timetable on the Bus website is not always accurate, and
• make sure you book the return ticket in advance as the seat numbers are limited so don't always expect to just turn up and walk onto a particular bus without booking a seat in advance.

The bus service is excellent and a lot cheaper than a taxi. The service from the Airport is scheduled to match with airport arrivals.

Expansion of Warsaw Modlin Airport was blocked by PPL, Owners of Warsaw Chopin Airport today as the issues between Ryanair and PPL once again come to a head in a battle that has been going on the best part of a decade on and off.

Last week Ryanair reported PPL to the European Commision over unfair treatment at Chopin Airport as they experienced heavy delays in transporting passengers by bus and were being handed parking spots that were furthest away from terminal. Ryanair moved some flights to Chopin and was preparing to move more because of the lack of space at Modlin which PPL was dragging it's heels on expanding.

PPL made a statement last week saying that they didn't want Ryanair flying at Chopin Airport and PPL have been reported to the EU on a number of occasions in relation to what Ryanair deemed as unfair treatment and favourtism to LOT.

The Two local authorities and the Millitary Property agency, the other shareholders in Modlin have approved the plan but PPL rejected it and therefore since the rules of the airport require all 4 shareholders to agree, expansion won't be happening.

PPL have however said that they will be willing to finance in full and approve the expansion if the other shareholders sell out to them and that they operate Modlin Airport as a duel airport strategy with Chopin Airport, large price rises to fees, remove incentives for Ryanair to grow traffic and reduce Ryanair traffic at the airport and there is speculation that they will reconfigure the airport to one that is not designed as a low cost airport.

It is really a shame that PPL are involved in Modlin Airport, they continually frustrate development of the airport and are more interested in protecting Chopin Airport and the carriers there than having an airports set-up that meets the needs of all of the citizens of Warsaw and the wider country. If they had their way, I doubt the airport would have been built at all but when the local authorities got EU funding they couldn't avoid it.

It's a crazy state of affairs! What's even more insane is the talk of THIRD airport for Warsaw!

There is a real need for an intervention, and the EU is the best candidate to intervene. Here's hoping...

EU could intervene on a number of counts
1.) Direct subsidy to LOT by actions of PPL
2.) Anti competitive actions of PPL against specific airlines.

With 30% Market share in Poland, Ryanairs presence will not be easily shrunk.

This is moving quite fast now, PPL have now also blocked a €15m bond from a Polish bank agreed by other shareholders to pay for some work in the terminal and also to repair taxiways so repairs cannot be made. The chairman of the airport supervisory board and the local authority says this may require the airport to be closed by the civil aviation authority on safety grounds (some suggest it is a tactic to force the other shareholders to sell up)

The other thing of note that the CEO of PPL also stated that they will not pay Ryanair to serve the airports in Warsaw, but the way it was worded was that it was specifically Ryanair they would not pay, not airlines in general which if correct wouldn't surprise me

Most of the analysis I've read suggests running Modlin and Chopin as a duopoly is simply a holding pattern until the new big airport in Warsaw is created when both will be closed down for the new big airport which will pretty much return the status quo as it was before Modlin was opened.

It's absloutely vital that Modlin does not come under the ownership of PPL but at the moment Ryanair are snookered - They're having awkward treatment in Chopin, PPL are blocking expansion of Modlin unless they get full control and then they will almost certainly make large changes.

Targeting one company means lots of lawyers will be rich.

EU will be intervening and it could get costly.

Dawn Raids are a EU way to digging detail for anti Competitive behaviour........... basically for senior management they can even go through the laundry basket in your house to see if hiding stuff.

They will argue it's not that though and saying they just want to make Modlin Airport more viable and that Ryanair's rates are not sustainable and to reduce the overcrowding at Chopin Airport and they are just trying to be fair to all carriers and to take the pressure off Chopin Airport which PPL are apparently going to close during certain hours in the future and want Modlin to take some of the strain.

The issue of capacity at Chopin Airport is a curious one, about 10 years ago they built a new terminal, T2. Then they closed T1 and refuribshed it and everything was then defined as the same terminal but parts of the old T1 are unused now. Also we've often heard the "no space" argument in the last 3-4 years when some airlines have talked about expanding but others have been able to expand without issue.

Worth noting is that there were incentives for new routes to serve Chopin Airport that were quite loose before Ryanair went back there, they were tightened up a little after and a lot of pre-conditions were put in that wouldn't effect many airlines much but would effect Ryanair. There was also talk of incentives being offered only for airlines that useed air bridges but I don't know if this actually happened in the end.

Polish Govt may find other countrys apply same thing with LOT who are introducing new services from Hungary to the US.

https://www.reuters.com/article/airl...-idUSL8N1J302M

It won't get any more Govt funding either.

Attempts to close out Ryanair are doomed to fail.

Though love the idea they are introducing more seats from Poland to UK....... they offer so few now that any increase will be a big %.

There's also some debate in Poland now that rules should be changed when it comes to voting for such modernisation of the airport so that one shareholder cannot block something like this when those who have 70% of the airports shares want it to go ahead.

There is now said to be serious concern over the condition of the taxiways and even some reports that the airport could be closed before the end of the year as the management are being prevented from accessing funds to repair the taxiways.

Looks like the row with PPL has escalated, all domestic services to WAW (except SZZ) to end on 28/10 unlike at the end of the end of the winter schedule as first announced.

Ryanair are also cancelling a bunch of other non-Polish flights on 28/10 so I am not sure the PPL issue is the only reason.

They have cancelled domestic routes in UK as well.................

Could be a Pilot issue or something else.

The issue with some of the facilities at the airport and the infrastructure is now said to deteriorated further and now there is even more belief that it could be closed down before the end of the year as the board continue to be blocked from resolving the issue as PPL prevents and blocks them from raising finance, taking loans and other operational decisions despite PPL not having a majority shareholding.

PPL have repeated that the only way they will fund the airport or approve the actions of the board is in conjunction with a new business plan and majority ownership of the airport and for it to be operated as a duopoly along with Chopin Airport. They claimed that the other shareholders are risking the airports future by turning down their offers but the other shareholders are unhappy with the offers made by PPL.

PPL have this week suggested that they are getting tired of the impasse and if Modlin do not agree to sell up they will simply build another new airport in Warsaw which they would almost certainly be the sole share-holders, possibly with other parts of the Polish State or using Radom Airport as a new Warsaw area airport to act as a competitor to Modlin.

On the face of it, the threat to build another airport to compete with Modlin, may well be yet another tactic in order to try and intimidate the shareholders to sell up by giving them the feeling if they don't sell up, PPL will find another way to regain their stranglehold on airports in Warsaw by competing directly against Modlin.

Either way, PPL have made it clear that they are unhappy with the conditions and terms that Ryanair fly on and would like this changed as they view Modlin as simply an airport for Ryanair rather than an airport in its own right.

Latest is that PPL are considering investing in Radom and making it a new airport for the Warsaw region.

They are also investigating the possibility of terminating the Ryanair contract with Modlin before it expires in 2023 as if that happens and a new one with much higher fees in put in place they may re-consider helping Modlin.

translated from Polish:
http://www.pasazer.com/news/36614/mo...ych,linii.html

PPL continue to say that no finance can be raised by other shareholders to pay for maintenance or resolutions passed without their approval and their approval is conditional on acquiring at least 50.01% ownership of the airport

The Mazowieckie Voivodeship which owns a third of the shares in Modlin is now looking to alternatives that would mean that PPL is no longer involved with the airport, this includes buying PPL shares itself perhaps in conjunction with some external private investors.

The problem is that such arrangement would have to be approved by all investors apart from PPL, one of which is the Military property agency who ultimately is accountable to the Polish Minister for Defence, who would most likely side with PPL on this.

If the issue is not resolved soon, it is likely that the Airport Management will take PPL to court on the basis that s shareholder is acting in a way which is to the detriment of the company and therefore should have it's voting rights suspended.

Moving very fast now, Ryanair says if Modlin is not expanded they will start to move flights to Chopin Airport even if Chopin Airport does not want them there at extremely low prices regardless of the fees that they are charged by PPL in order to operate.

This appears to be a direct threat to undermine LOT at the airport and force PPLs hand, since many people believer the impasse and frustration of expansion and investment at Modlin caused by PPL is to protect LOT at the main airport.

Considering Ryanair's cash reserves it's not beyond the possibilities that they could use them and dig their heels in and wage a long battle against LOT and PPL at Warsaw's main airport.

Thanks for all these updates, most interesting!

I hope it also means restarting domestic services from WRO and GDN to WAW next summer schedule!