Just a long shot suggestion. Skybus I seem to recall operate a St Mary's - Southampton service in the summer. A year round service St Mary's- Newquay- Southampton might provide both the Scillies and Newquay with a service that connects with a fast London rail connection. As a past habitant of Hampshire, I found the airport and rail connection far less hassle than some of the alternatives.

I used the SOU - IOS service a few times satisfactorily.Southampton offers a 1 hour 12 minute train service to central London and from an Air traffic point of view saves a relatively slow moving aircraft getting caught up in the complications and delays of the London area airports elaborate arrival procedures.My wife did not enjoy the delights of the Twin Otter on what seemed quite a long flight.The fare was very substantial too!! VBR Stampe

Well done Nqy, no gatwick route, so what do you do double the APD

devonish, do you mean APD, set by the govt or Airport Development Fee (ADF)? I have not seen any mention of rise - can you link to an announcement?
Incidentally the twotter I think is exempt from APD as according the spec it is under 5.7 tonnes.

No formal announcement made, just comments by Cornwall Council (unrelated to the ongoings on the London route) that due to Council budget cuts as part of a raft of other measures they may be forced to double the ADF at NQY.

Hey Phileas I bet you are still in short trousers out there in the tropics, not that I am jealous of course as I sit here in my rocking chair waiting for the nursing home to call. No less than 43 years ago that I sent my first Islander westward to Newquay and it still feels like yesterday.

OK so please bear with me on this but once and for all here is my understanding based on those 43 years.

There are two distinct problems. The survival of Newquay as an airport and the survival of the London air service. Neither is absolutely dependent on the other.

Newquay Airport
I have said this so many times that it is now getting boring, the airport will only have a future by building its non scheduled infrastructure and so far the powers that be seem to be having a good crack at that, maintenance company, parting out, museum, put a swimming pool and a ski slope in one of the hangars but whatever brings in long term money is more grist to the mill.

If that still does not cover costs then it has to be sold or close, I don't want my council tax continuing to go down the drain.

Air service to London
srobarts 'long shot' is actually not so long and could be one option. Yes laugh at the Twin Otter but in recent years I have flown more on Twin Otters in Canada than anything else, for a route like Newquay to London ( whichever airport) they are not a bad option. Skybus is the one airline that could if the management were willing provide an answer. The big problem is the fare that would have to be charged, traditionally the first class rail fare has always been the target. Could that level cover the costs?

As so many have said the 100 plus seat jets are not for a route like this so what other options are there?

Southampton - yes?
Brighton City - possibly?
Biggin Hill - no 'fare paying flights' .....so here is today's long shot. Fly passengers to Biggin Hill for free, it is a stones throw from the City and not far from LGW. How about Biggin, Newquay (or), St Mary's, that would help our friends in the Isles of Scilly somewhat!!

Of course flying the passengers for free they will also expect to be picked up from home and delivered to wherever they are going, like Virgin Upper Class and after all why not? Least they can expect when paying. nothing Naturally a charge will apply to the car element of the journey..... a little above the first class train fare should suffice.

Also to qualify this will be a members only club, much like the Trowbridge Cage Bird Society or Left Handed Club ( some will be old enough to remember).

All quite legal, if anyone fancies giving it a crack just let me know.....

Allow me to finish on a quote from Sir Stelios to me when he started easyjet " Of course ....., you know all the 'experts' said this would never work".

I rest my case.Senility is just round the corner according to Phileas!!

Morning GROUNDHOG,

Yep, sitting here in my short trousers just brewing the coffee whilst greeting our guests in this little holiday haven and the weather is, just by way of a change, just fine.

All I can suggest is that many years ago Air UK had a Bandit operation EXT/SOU/AMS/SOU/EXT so perhaps NQY/SOU/AMS/SOU/NQY might work, a 15 minute (ish) transit in SOU in each direction for those travelling to/from London and onwards to/from AMS for those connecting internationally.

BUT ... Air UK had a codeshare with KLM and a KLM codeshare would need to be a "must" for such an operation to work and it would need to be a speedier and more comfortable aircraft that a 150kt fixed undercarriage Twotter!

A Shoreham operation would last about as long as Brighton City Airways, what with restricted runway dimensions, b*gger all navigational aids and p1ss poor public transport connections.

Alas Biggin wouldn't work either, I doubt Biggin would even want to risk upsetting Bromley Council and/or ending up in court for clearly bucking the system.

.....Flybe already codeshare with KLM on SOU-AMS.

Must admit hadn't thought of the SOU angle. A Q400 SOU-NQY would probably be, what, 45 mins, and as those of us who use it know, you can be off a flight and onto a train or into the car in 15 mins at SOU.

Flybe almost launched the route a few years ago (using their inherited 145's), it was put on sale, then dropped before the operation started. However, at the time ASW were still operating their fairly high frequency schedule from LGW, and RYR were operating 738's twice a day from STN. All that competition is now gone (during the winter anyway).

SOU of course offers many other connections on the Flybe network....domestic trunk routes, Channel Islands, Regional France, Spain etc.

SOU might well work for connections with flybe, just as MAN seems to sustain a daily Q400 during the season.

In other news today, it's reported on local radio that CCC are looking to double the £5.00 ADF next year as part of plans to save money !!!


cs

I think the LGW route has demonstrated that a Q400 is too large an aircraft for NQY, what is needed is a thirty something seater or few.

And of course there was the British United 'silver arrow' service to Le Touquet via Southampton ...... agree entirely anything on NQY/SOU would have to be small. Skybus probably best placed to do it, problem is at what price to make it profitable.

IoS steamship company have a lovely little business in Skybus, sole operator to an airport they own, absolutely no competition and at whatever price they like. Why change that with a risky route?

Only time will tell but things are looking like the weather down here at the moment, a bit on the bleak side!

As to raising the development fee, utter madness! So for a family of four on one of the 'let's try Newquay' charters to Turkey or Bulgaria has to pay an extra £40 before they start - that gives a real incentive doesn't it.

Logie Dornier (op. for Flybe as per the NWI-MAN operation) or Saab perhaps?

Oh no they didn't, Brymon took over the route and an HPR7 from British Midland Airways and GROUNDHOG might be able to shed some light on a LHR operator or few before British Midland.

http://www.abpic.co.uk/images/images/1053908M.jpg


Type:
Handley Page HPR.7 Herald 214

Owner / Operator:
British Midland Airways (BD / BMA)

Location:
RAF St Mawgan / Newquay (NQY / EGDG), UK - England

Date:
1974

Ah, days gone by.... so, delving into my reference books reveals that in April 1963 British Westpoint Airlines opened the London link and flew DC-3s from Newquay to Heathrow, via Exeter. British Eagle took over the route in the mid-60s, at one time using BAC One-Elevens. Following British Eagle's collapse in 1968 Dan-Air moved in with Dakotas and Ambassadors. British Midland took over the licence in the early 1970s and flew Viscounts as well as Heralds ont he route.

Barling Magna,

I think you'll find GROUNDHOG knows better than your reference books :)

Ha! He probably wrote them.....

Whoever wrote the book is partly right, I was station manager Gatwick at that time (1969-70) with Westward Airways, I know exactly what went on. I go back to 1965 at Gatwick so remember the flights mentioned. The route was even flown by Southend Air Taxis for a few weeks, the reference books will tell you it was a Chieftain but in fact it was on a Cessna 272, Westward flew LGW/LHR/PLH/NQY/ISC, twice a day on the 'long haul' and four times LGW/LHR. It was so bad in the end we told the passengers the aircraft was tech and put them in a taxi at our costs so we did not have to fly with only one or two on board.

Back to NQY and EGHQ's post

So much I agree with there, but a couple of things I do not.I do not believe that NQY airport is vital to the future of the Cornish economy. I would rather the Council spent £3million a year more constructively to develop the infrastructure here. If the airport cannot pay its way under the Council sell it to someone who can make it pay or close it.

Connecting over other points makes complete sense, but, no one is going to fly from Newquay to say Dublin to catch Ryanair to Nice. If I want to fly West I want to fly West not east for two hours first. How do I get to Vancouver for instance, not over Dublin or Manchester for sure, Paris, Amsterdam maybe but it is back to the old problem of travelling an hour in the wrong direction. Quicker and easier to go to Heathrow. Same reason it is alien to fly to Southend to go to London City, to go to Nice that is a different matter. Curiously then the success of the NQY/SEN route depends far more on the success of SEN in having a good range of connections than it does on NQY itself! Pointless relying on incoming tourist traffic from Southend catchment area.

Why advertise an airport, if anyone east of Liskeard doesn't know there is an airport at Newquay they are likely to be the sort of person that wouldn't be using it anyway.

The airlines and tour operators that use the airport need to advertise the services THEY offer but that is a matter of individual decision.

Simple fact is with nowhere sensible to land that offers good connections and London is the logical choice, the future is far from a proper job!

A few years ago (perhaps 2010?) BE loaded SOU-NQY flights, can't remember frequency as they were only bookable for a few weeks before being taken off sale. So they have looked before but for reasons unknown didn't start it. However I can see it working as long as flights are timed to make reasonable connections. Likewise the MAN link - I assume the timings are aimed at tourist/leisure traffic as opposed to giving the NQY catchment opportunity to make viable connections at MAN. Flights from places like NWI and SOU have been timed to make good connections with TCX long haul flights amongst others.

Southend Air Taxis used a Cessna 337 on the shuttle, didn't they? And a Cherokee Six on a couple of occasions?

You are quite right they did indeed use a 337 for quite a few trips, it was around the time one of the Islanders has an unfortunate landing in the Isles of Scilly. My memory is what a great little aeroplane and what a super bunch they were at Southend. A long time ago now but do not remember the cherokee six though it is quite possible

The Cessna 337 ended up overrunning the grass strip at Orsett Hall, hitting a treestump and going across a road. I was part of the engineering team that dismantled the aircraft and roaded it back to SEN the next day. The main thing I remember about that task was the wonderful food served up at a transport cafe on the A13 nearby.

I bet flybe will carry on the Nqy gatwick service once a day with government funding next year

Not as they are pulling out of LGW they won't.

devonish

They've sold "all" their landing slots, so bets are off

Until a new runway or two are built at London, it doesn't seem likely that any airline will use it's valuable LHR/LGW slots for Newquay flights, so direct connections are off the table. In the probably lengthy interim perhaps adding Newquay to the Blue Islands network would be worth exploring. They've got the right aircraft and some useful business destinations and long haul connections out of Jersey.

Longhaul connections out of Jersey ? Where to ?

Amsterdam, Bristol, Geneva, Guernsey, London-City, Paris-Charles de Gaulle, Southampton, Zurich :)

There you go a flight from Newquay to London City.... via Jerseyl Who said there was no way to have flights to London.

Watch out for that big storm coming Phileas - stay safe...:=

Big Storm GROUNDHOG?

Just looking on GE we have a typhoon and a tropical storm in the vicinity ... and after the maid has gone home for the day :)

Typhoons, earthquakes, all part of day to day life here, in the high season here at the moment so really busy.

As reported by the western morning news, newquay has gone down the PSO route, as I've stated before newquay to gatwick once a day early morning and late at night by flybe is the way ahead

I expect that they might get a queue of airlines wanting to operate NQY-LON if it were made a PSO.

BA & U2 might well be at the top of the list ;)


cs

I think the limited number of PSO seats required per day ie aircraft size will mean BA and EZY will need to invest a lot of their own money in such a venture. If they were borderline for profitability then I suppose this could be enough to tip the balance. Personally can't see BA at NQY anytime soon.

The problem faced by Newquay is that London airports suitable for a Newquay service are now so busy relative to runway capacity at times of day commercially useful to a Newquay service that nobody wants to waste a precious slot when a run down to Spain would make more cash.

Can PSO really ameliorate the situation sufficiently that it makes the slot issue no longer a problem for NQY ? From what I can tell, applying PSO rules to a route usually leads to significant rises in air fares - would demand for the route sustain the fare increase and prevent too many people moving to the train ?

PSO is needed where there's a pressing social need and little alternative. Taxpayer subsidies to BA while there's a perfectly good train available? Not a chance.

devonish flybe are pulling out of LGW due to prohibitivley high charges from GIP, they won't daystop an aircraft all day on the ground just to serve NQY. The parking charges alone would kill that idea.

Skipness, good point about the ac at gatwick all day, as even if the PSO was awarded to flybe they would have no other slots at gatwick to use for the rest of the day. Cornwall council seem very positive about keeping the link and they say that airlines are queuing up to take it over

The problems will hit in a few years time when the the West Coast line in falls into the sea and what is now an average rail link to the capital becomes a very poor link.
As for getting the train out of Cornwall to anywhere else - it's rubbish - I can drive to Bristol quicker than it takes to get there on the train.

You could also add that if Cornwall Council want to save the airport they should get a management team in that know what they are doing...

The issue of Newquay losing its London airline is like so many similar debates before. Jersey losing its London Heathrow route, Guernsey, IOM, Teesside (DTV) etc. unless the airport can buy and secure slots for the route it will have a difficult or doomed future. I accept this course of action is not straightforward but if government , local authorities and airports want to maintain connectivity between regions and London this option should be explored. Otherwise, KLM and co will export the passenger spend to AMS etc. however, not to say NQY will get KLM anytime soon.

While the airport may say there are airports queuing up to fly a London route the fact is the best placed one to maintain LGW has knocked it on the head. The bigger challenge is the number of airlines has been falling fast and options are limited. High fuel charges etc make airlines extremely sketchy about opening new routes that may not deliver the necessary return to satisfy shareholder requirements...

And as somebody pointed out flying an aircraft to a sun spot with big demand and high fares will win out every time...

The only option left for an LGW route must be a daily night stop at NQY by DY, a 733, they offer connecting services over their own routes and with so much going on for them at LGW, they could be attracted to the link... Bit if a long shot.

Otherwise, the sight of a PSO could draw FR to STN again...

S1E said:

That's just the point, Newquay is at the end of a very slow branch line (linespeed 40-50 mph max IIRC). It takes an hour just to get to Par (where the branch joins the mainline) and then another hour on top of that to get to Plymouth. In winter I think there are about 4 or 5 services up and down the branch per day, only some of which might be any good for connection to a mainline service. In Summer it's a bit better, with some direct HSTs from London, and some points north, but they still have to creep up and down that single-track branch.

To be honest, Newquay might as well be on an island as far as usefulness for rail connections is concerned.

What would work, for me, is something similar to the current Flybe op, with an a/c based at NQY, that does early and late runs to London, and maybe a Manchester (or Amsterdam/Paris?) runs during the day.

An opportunity for Skybus perhaps, especially with PSO funds to launch it, and I don't mean with a Twotter!

Do you believe for one minute that all the punters in/out of NQY actually live in Newquay and at the end of that very slow branch line?

Do all the punters that use CWL live in Rhoose, do all the punters that use BRS live in Lulsgate etc. etc. etc?