Andrew, it would have been considered laughable for EI to move to BHD and run a domestic network just 3 months ago.. who knows what the future may hold, they could run a few routes from BFS if they want to, and no doubt they will have been poached by management.

mart, if this goes ahead it will be 3 times that BHD has basically crapped on BE, each time and airline has left they have stepped in to fill the gap and held reduce the effects of an airline moving, yet each time they are thanked by getting a competitor on their routes, they made a reasonably bold statement when WW went across, if they don't say anything about this i will be surprised

I agree with TB, if they do start working together with BHD-LHR we will probably see EI upgrade its services and pricing structure for flight.. meaning a fare increase is possible

So did BFS crap on EZY when they let in EI to compete directly or LS for that matter? BE are not a special carrier who cant be put up against a competitor. And as for LHR it was always planned that BA would code share with EI so whats the difference?

BHD-LHR is already significantly more expensive than when BD operated the route as Flybmi, rather than BA with nice aircraft.

BE said their response to WW getting in on the party at BHD would be "robust". They did nothing. I'd imagine the response to this will be equally "robust".

Bfs hasn't seen a succession of carriers, like Bhd has who have been poached down to Bhd and then failed, only for Flybe to pick up the pieces and be stood on again. I think it is pretty scandalous the way Bhd has behaved over the last few years. But yet another example of maybe a bad decision all over a few pieces of silver. Except BHD seems to be like a mirage in the desert, when you get there, you realise that the promised silver isn't there.

Last month, Bhd to Edi had about 10k pax. We are told that Ei is going on that route with an airbus. How is that going to work? Is Ezy going to stand by and watch? Ei will only generate volume by cutting fares to the bone, what then about yield? In a fares war, who will be best placed to stick it out? Ezy has the largest pockets. Flybe the smaller planes so will lose less. Ei?

I have a huge interest in economics and the one thing I see all the time, many in large bussinesses, is bad decisions. Here is another one coming if this move takes place.

TB

The difference is... this will be the second time that BE helped BHD when airlines leave them, only to have them getting a replacement which lands in direct competition...

Think of it as loyalty.. BFS shows loyalty to EZY due to their long-ish relationship, you would think BHD would show the same to some extent.

I see the Belfast Telegraph is the only one i have noticed to include this in the story

Very poorly reported and handled, such reporting only leads to people getting hopes up and will cause worry for those in BFS, as no doubt there could be jobs at stake throughout the airport

I think that the posters who say that the media have the story fresh from pprune, I think that they could be right. AerLingus if they are going to appear at LHR it will be a LHR link, maybe that could mean a consolidation of the LHR route at the city but I just cant see they touching Domestic routes outside of LHR.

I certainly dont think that BE would allow BHD to flex its muscle and there are many services (that dont compete with EZY) to BFS and drive a good deal with BFS including ski charters, other charters, EMA, CWL, INV, ABZ, Dundee...plus Jersey... Anyway.

If EI Did move Euro routes to BFS I could see EZY putting extra capacity and ensuring that it is not easy for EI..... It's not in Easyjet's interest to have a strong and growing BHD.

Seems to be all over the newspapers, I'm sure there are more sources than PPrune..

Aer Lingus 'planning Belfast switch' - The Irish Times - Fri, Jun 15, 2012

Aer Lingus to switch operations from Belfast International to George Best City Airport - Irish, Business - Independent.ie

I'm sure it will be a combined Aer Lingus/ Aer Lingus Regional operation out of BHD.

Ah come on, FlyBe are not a charity. They're operating out of BHD because they know they can make money there, end of.

BHD management would be fools to allow FlyBe hold a monopoly position at the airport, as it would give FlyBe huge buying power when it comes to airport charges.

Perhaps with Eazy & Jet2 at BFS it seems less hassle to sell their wares from the city, plus they will have seen WW loads these past few months which if nothing else proved that people are happy to go on their jolly's from city

come on everyone wake up and smell the coffee. last year EI quietly slipped a few a few A319's into the fleet, at guess what airport. Nothing is on sale out of BFS except LHR past Oct. (Granted some other routes aren't but thats mainly EIR). BHD management have been dropping some rather big hints about airlines launching routes to replace WW and today the bbc, probably one of the most respected names in UK journalism is announcing EI look likely to be moving. Naturally EI will deny it at this stage, its not set for public announcement, thats what companies do. I quite agree with the comments that BE are not a charity, the belfast market is very lucrative for them otherwise they simply wouldn't be there. BFS will just as likely be offering deals as we speak to attract in carriers, loyalty has nothing to do with it. EZY were happy enough to slip over to BHD to keep FR off the LTN run and no doubt would have moved lock stock and barrel if it so suited them.

Confirmation from the airline may follow a board meeting next week.

The BBC understands flights could be moved to Belfast City within weeks and that a formal announcement may come in days.

The move will also make George Best Belfast City Airport, Belfast's only Heathrow connection

Anyone who thinks Jim Fitzpatrick has put this story together after reading speculative posts on PPRUNE obviously has no idea how journalists at this level work. He has been given the information "off the record" by someone regarded as a very reliable source. This could only be someone in a senior managerial position at the airport, Aer Lingus or indeed someone from both. When he writes "the BBC understands...", he means "the BBC has been told by a completely reliable source who does not wish to be identified at this stage..." Believe you me, no-one in his position is going to write a story like this without being 100% sure what he is writing is accurate. The story is very specific. There's nothing woolly or speculative about it, and the main points appear to be:

All Aer Lingus services will operate from BHD
The airline will develop other routes from BHD, as well as those it currently operates.
The announcement will be made within the next week or so.
The move may happen very quickly.
BFS will lose its link with Heathrow.

The Aer Lingus statement is simply PR speak for "we're not ready to say anything about this yet." There's certainly no denial there.

I will be very surprised if the majority, indeed all, of Jim's story turns out to be anything other than spot on.

Staff at BFS based Delta catering filled in forms for airside passes at BHD weeks ago.

I take it you mean Alpha? and that wouldn't matter anyway as Gate Gourmet cater the Aerlingus operation at BFS

Well personally I hope BFS gets easy or jet2 to take over those routes. I'd be more if they got someone like monarch in to replace them but whats the chances.
Over the past few months we have heard ezy are going to start 2 new routes. The airport was in talks with Etihad and only this week we heard Virgin to MCO may be a possibility. Let's hope atleast one of these come off for the airport

I would say there's a chance LHR will be kept, who by is the question..

You can see why EI want to move when more than twice as many pax fly to LHR from BHD than BFS. If they land up with a 50/50 share of the pax with BA as code share partner even at just £1 per seat profit that would be £10k extra a month, that would surely more than amply cover some losses on start up domestic routes. As people will be able to book both airlines flights through each others websites it will surely result in growth for EI. I would say its part of a longer term strategy with LHR in mind, quite possibly as the sole carrier.

"You can see why EI want to move when more than twice as many pax fly to LHR from BHD than BFS"

Here we go again with these statements that Bhd is everyones favourite, if they can't fly to Bhd they will not travel. Let look at the history. After 9/11, BMI was another of those airlines poached down to Bhd from Bfs. Around the same time, BA decided to withdraw from Belfast completely, under the guise that the Bfs route was loosing money, some would say this was not completely true.

So for many years, the ONLY route from Belfast to Lhr was from Bhd, with BD having slots for about 7/8 services a day. So how could any pax fly from Bfs when there was no service?

Then Ei enter the fray from Bfs, but to a slot constrained airport. So how could they come in and offer the same frequency as BD when they were unable to get slots to do so?

So until two airlines are running the same frequency and same capacity from both Belfast airports to Lhr for maybe 2 years, nobody can say that Bhd is the preferred airport to Lhr. Bfs and Bhd compete on many domestic routes and I am afraid that the Caa stats tell us that Bfs carries more on most of those routes. If Bhd is where everyone wants to fly, why is that? Or maybe the Caa stats are wrong, that group up there that opposes Bhd has got to them.

TB

mart901, with respect, it is a nonsense to suggest that its because twice as many pax fly BHD LHR than BFS. Firstly that because there is twice as many flights. Increase BFS to 6 a day and then we could see a direct proper comparison.

Take last July EI carried almost as many pax on BFS LHR as BD did on BHD LHR... EI's best month on the route.

And in addition, we could make the same inference on most of EZYs routes, eg GLA EDI LGW, that 'clear case why it would be better to operate BFS EDI rather than BHD EDI as twice as many use it', again that would be nonsence.

I feel that EI operating LGW or MAN with 319, the losses would be monumental. It would take far to long to establised and a £1 extra profit per seat likely wouldnt go too far. Losses on an underperforming route can be huge. Take the fuel and staff costs alone. Have memories of MXP BFS coming back with less than 10 passenger. Lets try to understand how much that would have costed and the few pax prob got the lowest fares.

EI-BUD

True Blue you make valid points here, and I am reflecting on the long stated comment that BA was losing a packet on the SuperShuttle BFS LHR route.

At the time that these accepted theories were first floated about, the cost base of the likes of BA were vastly different and BD's too. BA's has vastly improved, so if BA returned working on the same frequency and revenue may be acceptable. Same story for BD, although they wont be around. BFS was the incumbent and as such it had everything to play for.

This debate about which airport commands the best traffic as True Blue says we need same frequency, probably the same airline, probably the same fares to see which is most popular.

Particular airlines can attract the numbers, so take EZY on established routes from BFS they far exceed that of the City but equally established routes from BHD far exceed BFS e.g. MAN..

Yes BHD as many says is in a great location. There is great catchment, but BFS has an equally if not bigger catchment when you consider all the towns cities and counties west and south extending across the border into the republic.

EI-BUD

EI could have increased capacity long ago simply by using another LHR slot to facilitate it, i.e. from a SNN,ORK or one of the many DUB slots. On the point of other routes when you look at the pricing structure of EZY and the aircraft size against that of BE its little or no wonder they fly more pax. I'm not saying there isn't demand from BFS there clearly is but I don't accept that moving operations to BHD or running domestic routes will result in catastrophic failure. Just look what happened when EZY flew BHD-LTN, nothing changed. I don't think the airport is the issue, pricing is, FR at BHD being an even better example.

mart01, I was responding to your comment
AerLingus could also be using 320s on ALL LHR BFS services and they could be doing x4 daily as per last year, but clearly the market is well served, and they see it prudent in a commercial sense not to take slots from ORK SNN and DUB to give to BFS. The loads are not as strong as Dublin based on CAA Stats on ORK SNN and DUB Routes (though DUB hard to work out as BD there, beside EI will be keeping DUB to the max to ensure they can react if BA/BD decide to withdraw, and BA's track record at DUB is awful LHR axed 91, LGW inherited from CityFlyer axed in the recession and LCY lasted months and was axed mid season)

The point you are alluding to is this: the airline is as relevant to the market as the airport pairs chosen and so to their marketing ability and reputation. I am firmly of the view any routes outside of LHR on the domestic front will be an absolute disaster. Firstly BE will be higher frequency with lower cost aircraft, will react to defend their patch.

EI is not established at all at BHD or on the domestic routes outside of LHR. Arrann will not be able to compete and have no point of difference and if it is to be the lowest price every time, that too is fruitless.

I always thought from what is written on this forum that it was the location that was most important. Remember all those foreign tourists who will not come here if they can't fly into BHD? All those who can't travel up to Lough Neagh but find no problem driving down to Dublin. In fact, I'm surprised anyone uses Bfs it is so bad. Mart, if demand for Bhd is so great, why haven't Flybe put on their E195s at greater frequency to Edi, Gla etc? Why have they pulled off Lpl, twice I think, Brs and carry about 3k pax a month to Ncl? There is nothing to stop Flybe being able to carry every pax that wants to come from some of these airports into Bhd, why do you think they do not? How many times are we going to listen to the wonderful statements from Bhd about how good everything is there, as we watch airlines go, before we start to question, is all this spin true? Or does most people on here just believe every word they see/hear?

TB

Read in the Belfast telegraph that mr Ambrose said that IF someone wanted to come and buy BHD to close it down and probably redevelop the sight ie BFS owners, they would have to pay 200million to buy it, correct me of I'm wrong but I dont even think the airport is worth half of that

The reasoning behind this is Mr A persuaded ABN Amro to part with over £130 million a few years back (about three times what it was actually worth, even in the good old days of liberal credit and endless optimism) on the promise that they could dress it up and get out quickly with a nice little profit.

Now time has passed and a procession of airlines have been invited in at nil rates to make things look good in the desperate quest for a re-sale.

The 200 M is the original acquisition cost, plus the debts they have amassed against the operation - currently bringing the liability for the shareholder up to around £180 / £190 million - plus a few quid extra to try to justify the whole deal as a Silk Purse, and give management a wee bonus for doing such a good job. After all they are doing terribly well.

They might get 200 mil as well - but will probably have to find a benevolent sheikh who is convinced that it would be more entertaining to buy them out to sport himself than to buy a high profile football club.

"Now time has passed and a procession of airlines have been invited in at nil rates to make things look good in the desperate quest for a re-sale."

Very well put.

TB

dont know why everyones talking about LHR, sure EASYJETS SEN flights are sometimes carrying more passengers than EI LHR flights.Me thinks that a few politicians from the east(def not wise men) want to fly business class and not with us low costers,just my own thoughts.

AIRPORT66
 

All the surplus seats on the Ezy flights to London will be filled up the lose may not be that big in the long term Bfs has been her before will get through this and fight back,Some true facts stated here today well said guys.

I'm not even going to engage in that load of self congratulatory drivel. I'm not biased one way or the other and am happy to use either Belfast airport depending on where I'm going, when, and the fares available. Why its not possible to accept that airlines will move airports without an almost sectarian, nasty outburst I will never know. I seem to remember WW having the same slating just over a year ago. It really is time people grew up and accepted there is 2 Belfast airports, there will be for the forseable future, and airlines will be tempted to move subject to deals available. Its just worth considering the time EI has been in business and how well they know the whole Irish aviation industry and how to work it in their favour. Being just about the only airline capable of competing with FR on home soil I think competing with BE will be well within their stride They are moving airport, or at least seem highly likely to be, get over it.

All well and good for the fare paying public, there can be no doubt that they will gain a lot from the consolidation of the heathrow route from the city once BA pull out completely but as to your 'get over it', the people who work at the airport losing out are likely to be at risk of job losses and are entitled to feel aggrieved about it. Same as those who lost jobs as a result of WW's demise were entitled to their anger at how that was done.

How about thinking outside your economic box and consider that there are people involved.

Thats a very vallid point but as nobody has mentioned that till now then it hasnt been a topic but on the other side of the coin business cannot run on that basis otherwise it will never get anywhere. When EZY arrived they will have driven others out too just as they have in the mainland uK market and jobs will have been lost and created. Its just business and attaching sentiment to everything doesnt help anyone in it. Being adaptable does.

Right whats new? been mountain biking in Spain again and hanging out on PHPRNE. professional harbour
pilots rumor network. They are bitchin about the need for 3 ports on the east coast of NI and then the ones in Derry get upset as everyone forgets about them. Then ships change ports to better facilities closer to the people and then the locals complain that the ships kill the fish. Glad to be back on here. Proper head cases they are .

Now now Dog. My comment was directed at the standard of local media; nothing more.

Dog on mountain bike? That I'd pay to see.

My comment was directed at the standard of local media...

I'm curious. What do you mean by this? The story reflects a very professional approach to work on the part of a journalist at the BBC's newsroom in Ormeau Avenue. He has done exactly what he is paid to do - develop a network of reliable contacts able to provide him with accurate information. He is also paid to pass this information on to the public in the form of news stories across 3 media platforms - television, radio and online. In this case he obviously has a contact in a position of seniority within the local aviation industry. The contact has given him the information, and he has passed it on.
There's no need for anyone to confirm the story. I'm sure he has interviews lined up for the day of the official announcement. Indeed, they may already be "in the can".

Frequent Flyer, see post 544 on the Belfast Airport thread, to which I, and I believe Dog in Park, was referring to.

I am pretty sure Jim Fitzpatrick would not have broken this story were he not privy to some information from a source he considers to be reliable.

Exactly. They will have planned for the eventuality of the press hearing first and maybe even staged it that way. However if you believed everyting you read on here then you would imagine bbc journalists sit looking at pprune and make stories up based upon it!

There was a time when BD was operating out of both Aldergrove and Harbour, circa 2002 IIRC.

Where a destination is served from both BFS and BHD (e.g. LHR), which airport is preferred? Suspect it all depends on where one lives, and how one accesses the airports.

It all boils down to convenience, price, timings, frequencies, etc., so it is subjective, there is no objective answer. In other words, it's the same debate as whether LHR, LCY, LGW, SEN, STN, LTN, etc. (or the road or the train) is "better".

Where possible and viable, the more choice the better.

Chez FF to BHD by taxi - £5.50. Round trip £11.00.
Chez FF to BFS by taxi - £30.00. Round trip £60.00
Chez FF to BHD by bus - £1.80 for me (half fare as sleep apnoea claimed my driving licence six years ago) and £3.60 for Mrs. FF. Round trip £3.60 for me and £7.20 for Mrs. FF.
Chez FF to BFS by bus - £4.40 for me and £8.80 for Mrs. FF. Round trip £8.80 for me and £17.60 for Mrs. FF.
You've got to consider all these figures when looking for the fare which represents the best value for money. BHD normally wins hands down.

Quote: "Chez FF to BHD by taxi - £5.50. Round trip £11.00.
Chez FF to BFS by taxi - £30.00. Round trip £60.00
Chez FF to BHD by bus - £1.80 for me (half fare as sleep apnoea claimed my driving licence six years ago) and £3.60 for Mrs. FF. Round trip £3.60 for me and £7.20 for Mrs. FF.
Chez FF to BFS by bus - £4.40 for me and £8.80 for Mrs. FF. Round trip £8.80 for me and £17.60 for Mrs. FF.
You've got to consider all these figures when looking for the fare which represents the best value for money. BHD normally wins hands down."


Exactly, for me, going to Belfast centre and flying from LHR1, BHD is also more convenient, but many using BHD/BFS will not be travelling to/from Belfast.

Horses for courses!

AIRPORT66
 

So what day do you reckon the big annoucement is due?

Exactly, for me, going to Belfast centre and flying from LHR1, BHD is also more convenient, but many using BHD/BFS will not be travelling to/from Belfast.

Horses for courses!

I agree entirely - but BFS's main problem is its accessibility. Alright, there's a frequent bus service from the city centre but if you're travelling outside normal hours you have to queue up in Glengall Street in the p...ing rain until it arrives. Mrs. FF and I landed back from Faro at BFS a few weeks ago. We boarded the bus and were met with: "I hope youse have the right money for I have no change. If you haven't the right money you'll have to sit on to the Europa till I get change." For heaven's sake. There were people getting on to the bus from Amsterdam, Spain and other destinations in England. What a welcome. If you live in Ballymena or Ballymoney it's easier to get to BHD by public transport - train to Great Victoria Street followed by Metro 600 - than it is to get to Aldergrove. Is there a bus from Antrim rail station...I don't know? As I've said before, when the powers that be (or the powers that were) moved the civil airport from Nutts Corner, they looked at Long Kesh as a possible location. Perfect. About 10 miles south of Belfast City Centre and right beside both the motorway and rail line. Why they put it where they did I'll never know.